Just a question
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Do you have any evidence that Christians were beheading Muslims? Present it.
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Choir Loft
Religious tradition holds to different methods of capital punishment.
To this day Muslims perform beheading for a variety of reasons. Recently the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia reacted to the rise in beheadings by advertising for MORE executioners. This is not a practice of a by-gone era. It is very real and very present to this day.
The church has historically punished heretics by BURNING AT THE STAKE. This is a less humane method of dispatching offenders than the Muslim tradition of beheading.
In both instances the necessity of building and maintaining a large prison population is avoided.
The reader ought to be advised that the United States has the largest prison population of ANY NATION in the world - including Russia and Communist China COMBINED.
America incarcerates people for minor offenses and in a growing number of cases doesn't offer the possibility of an <expensive> fair trial. (Offenders are subject to plea-bargain deals which NEVER decide in favor of the accused.) Bench and jury trials are expensive. Most people cannot afford one. Consequently many innocent people or people guilty of minor crimes are sentenced to unjust extended punishment in the American prison system - now a shoddy venture managed by corporate interests.
The tendency to imprison innocent Americans is growing.
During the COVID plague many leaders who insisted upon keeping their churches open to the public were jailed. Pastors don't generally have large sums of money available for legal defense and are, as a result, financially crippled by our government WHICH IS ACTING ILLEGALLY according to the 1st amendment of the constitution.
As a result of the rise of the Gay Authority, many business owners who acted out of religious conviction to oppose Gay demands were fined and jailed.
The rise of technology also impinges upon personal liberty SUPPOSEDLY GUARANTEED BY LAW. Facial recognition results in unjust punishment of people identified by computers as offenders when in fact they have not infringed upon any law at all. Computer errors accuse innocent persons without an opportunity for defense or appeal. The law says one has the right to face one's accuser, but when computer files are involved one's rights are not observed at all. Facing one's accuser is not an option.
The innocent suffer as they must, while the rich and powerful do as they please.
These matters are not restricted to foreign shores or the dusty past. They are a clear and present danger here and now.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Dropship
Well-Known Member
Muslims could use the same argumentTrue Christians don't do "beheading"..
Not saying that the were beheading Muslims , they did a lot worse to other's , especially black people
Were they Christians or were they simply having that label falsely?
Historically yes a state believed that the population should follow what ever faith the ruler of that state had.
So we have in Europe catholic rulers persecuting protestant subjects and protestant rulers doing the same to catholic subjects.
But execution was not the norm, heavy fines barring from working in certain jobs were more normal.
This was similar to how islamic states treated Christians and Jews with civic limitations, 2nd class citizenship and additional taxation.
The real difference is that persecution, extortion and execution is built into islam, it is not part of Christianity.
Your comments about current civil actions against Christians in the west is really the result of the west having abandon Christian morality.
Dropship
Well-Known Member
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Choir Loft
The inference that Christians are generally guilty of persecution of all blacks is perverse racist and a blatant lie.
Let's begin with a little history of the African trade empire shall we?
It's a myth that white slave traders invaded Africa, trapped men women and children and transported them to the New World for profit and corporate advantage. It DID happen, but not the way it's told.
From time immemorial the African trade empire flourished by peddling human flesh.
One group attacked another, captured people and used them as barter for trade goods. Prior to European colonization, African traders sold their human commodities to kingdoms in and around the Levant. Caravans bought African slaves and carried them still further into the recesses of Asia and Asia minor. When European traders arrived at coastal cities of Africa they too bought human cargo for transport to the Caribbean, North and South America.
THE LIE we are asked to believe is that white slave traders invaded Africa and captured blacks.
We are asked to believe the myth that people, who are familiar with their own territory, could be easily pursued, captured, and moved to sea ports in chains without the protest of any of their family or community? This didn't happen, but we are meant to believe it did. I've been to many African nations and can personally testify that they are a clever people who are not afraid to fight with someone they believe is trying to steal from them.
THE TRUTH is that black slaves were sold to white European traders just as they'd been sold to ancient peoples of the far east for centuries prior to European arrival. Blacks betrayed their own people for profit - just as every other race on earth is accustomed to do.
Christian missionaries arrived in the sea ports along with European traders. These folks courageously sought to bring the gospel message to African peoples, but only met with limited success. The gospel was heard, but in many cases not accepted. Many Christian missionaries died trying. This is not true with the advance of Islam, however. Those that didn't accept the prophet [pbuh] were themselves murdered before they could kill Muslim missionaries. Islam spread widely across Africa and in most instances overwhelmed Christian settlements.
I've met with and seen the work of Christian missionaries in Africa. To this day they are working tirelessly to convert not only the souls of the lost but a culture that's self-destructive.
For instance, we've all seen images of starving Africans. Did you know the African culture divides food along generational lines? The old folks are fed first. If there is food left, then younger adults are given access to food. Last of all, if any food is left (mostly it isn't), the starving babies get what's left. Christian missionaries try to reverse the trend so as to feed babies first - babies who don't need to eat as much as adults anyway.
There is a great deal more to be said on this subject, but the greatest part of my message is to encourage the reader to educate themselves rather than listen to indoctrination and racist manipulation - of which America is principally guilty these days.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Choir Loft
I agree with your last statement concerning the abandonment of Christian morality. If one wants to start a fist fight these days, even among Christians, all one has to do is start a discussion about morality. One will quickly discover an almost violent response to the subject of Christian morality. It has indeed been abandoned - relegated to the trash heap of history.
In your post you correctly stated, "islamic states treated Christians and Jews with civic limitations, 2nd class citizenship and additional taxation." This is generally referred to as a MUSLIM HEAD TAX or Jizyah. "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." (Holy Qur'an 9.29)
Jizyah gets its name from the ultimate penalty for refusal to pay tax - the physical loss of one's head. Muslim restrictions aren't absolute because there are exceptions in many cases. For instance, not all Muslim countries adhere to the same strict customs interpretations and applications of Islamic law as do others. In western parlance, some are more liberal than others.
During the middle ages, the period between the fall of Rome and the fall of Constantinople, the church frequently burned heretics at the stake. These poor individuals were often ones who acted out of conscience rather than criminal intent. They opposed the church of Rome. Tensions ran high in those days as evidenced in the Great Schism between the Church of Rome and the Byzantine church, now referred to as the Eastern Orthodox community.
Numerous wars and persecutions have arisen over time, but the Roman Catholic church has been responsible for more persecution and death than all other nations and religions combined (nearly 60 million people in the past 1,600 years). (Revelation 16:6 & 17:6)
Christ Jesus came to us to give life, not take it. Since that time the church has betrayed the gospel. Today many preachers have one hand on the Bible and the other hand in someone else's pocket (sometimes their pants too).
There are those among us who truly seek to follow Jesus, but they are becoming fewer as the days progress.
There are those who believe in a rapture of the saints. I seriously wonder if there will be any faithful people on the earth at all when Christ returns. This isn't a rhetorical question.
At the present rate of decline in Christendom there might not be any who are truly faithful. According to recent PEW and Gallup polls, fewer than 17% of Americans attend church regularly as compared to 1948 levels. The Great Apostacy is here, boys and girls. (2 Tim 3:5)
Who among us will be left in attendance 10 years from today?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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Dropship
Well-Known Member
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Choir Loft
My people were slaves long before it was an issue of the American civil war...long before it was a racist accusation of blacks upon present day white citizens....long before there WAS an America, a European settlement of these shores and long before the African slave trade empire flourished.
My people don't use slavery as justification to beat a dead horse. Slavery as a legal institution in America ENDED in 1865.
I/we don't need to be lectured about it....unless of course you are willing to support financial remuneration of ALL people who were slaves, not just the black ones.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Your history on this is wayyy off , start with Spain , and then we can discuss , and you do know the tribe of Judah are black right?
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Choir Loft
Your revisionist racist remarks are a blatant attempt to justify an agenda that is entirely subversive.
The African slave trade flourished during the colonial period in North and South America. I've already stated that it was Africans, not Europeans that enslaved their own race and who sold them into slavery to the white traders who waited at the docks for the next shipment of human cargo.
I've been to Africa. Have you? I've traveled in several countries there. Have you? Probably not, yet you claim personal knowledge that is non-existent.
The black race is clever, protective of its own and well able to defend what is theirs (and to steal what isn't). Do you really expect readers here or anywhere else to believe Europeans could land on African shores, travel inland to villages and remote locations, trap blacks as though they were unknowing animals and transport them back to their ships without resistance? If you do you are guilty of unreasoned propagandizing and deliberate obfuscation.
Go to Harlem or any black section of any city in America and attempt to exert your will upon them. Even the police have a difficult time enforcing civil laws there. Blacks are clever enough to block white invasion of their territory even in our modern technological age. Oh yes, they were guilty of slave trading as much as the whites. In modern parlance, it took two to tango.
Moving to the Jewish race, the tribe of Judah is of SEMITIC background, not African. The SEMITES originally settled in the fertile crescent around what is now referred to as the Levant. I suppose you've been there too, right? Go to any synagogue and inform the Jews there that they are black and see what happens. I've attended synagogues where a few blacks have joined in the worship services. Have you? In my personal experience they have attended temple to worship Adonai, not to promote issues of genealogy, special interest, racial subversion or historic revisionism.
There are those today who have claimed to be black Hebrews, but their claims have been proven to be unfounded.
It's another attempt by American blacks who've lost their identity to seize a heritage that isn't their own. They do so because they lost their identity when they were sold into slavery by their own people.
The current black Hebrew movement actually began in the late 19th century (along with many other religious heresies) when Frank Cherry and William Saunders Crowdy claimed to have received visions instructing them they were descents of Biblical Hebrews. (Were they smoking something when they received their inspiration? Nobody knows.) Moving forward from that time, numerous groups sprang from that 'revelation' and claimed identification with Judah as well.
ACCORDING TO THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGE (ADL) SOME OF THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED BLACK ISRAELITES ARE ANTI-SEMITIC RACISTS.
Read the newspapers and watch media coverage. Black hatred of Jews is increasing. Some American Jewish leaders have recently stated that they are increasingly uncomfortable with the rising tide of anti-semitism in America. Media coverage of attacks is reluctant to display black faces behind attacks upon Jews, but sometimes it escapes the censors. On those occasions we all see it quite clearly.
Now that nation called Israel, never has had any peace in forty years and she will never have any peace because there can never be any peace structured on injustice, thievery, lying and deceit and using the name of God to shield your dirty religion under His holy and righteous name. - Minister Louis Farrakhan
The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. - Minister Louis Farrakhan
If the above quoted statements aren't racist, then nobody in America knows what the word means.
Go back and have another look at the descendants of modern Jews. They are SEMITES, not Africans.
I suggest you consult something other than YouTube, tabloid journalism or racist literature for your information. You would do well to do so.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
PS The Muslim holy book, the Qur'an certifies the right of Jews to live in Israel.
And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon (pharaoh) and his people had wrought and what they built. (Qur’an 7.137)
And when Musa (Moses) said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers. (Qur’an 5.20-21)
And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment. (Qur’an 17.104)
And.surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but a little. (Qur’an 17.76 (prophecy of attempts to remove Jews from Palestine))
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Choir Loft
You obviously haven't been following the conversation. I left clues all through everything I wrote.
Here's another clue. Read the book of Exodus. It's the second book of the Bible.
You could also read the book EXODUS by Leon Uris. That would be another clue.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
True. But it most surely is built into Christian counterfeits.
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