Just for fun: angelic law.

[michaelvpardo]

The law was given through Moses to Israel, but the Apostle tells us that even those outside the covenants have a law within them that approves or condemns them. The covenants and the law as we understand them apply to man, but what law applies to the angelic host? Angels are required to do God's word, which is to say that personal choice is never an option for them and amounts to rebellion.
Now, the Nephilim, the descendants of the sons of God, if they are indeed of angelic descent, are part human and part man. Do they answer to angelic law, human law, or both?
There probably wasn't a genetic footprint of the Nephilim in the DNA of Noah's family, but it was a possibility if the Nephilim were able to have children of their own.

 

[Helen]

As you say...fun to ponder such things.
To be honest I have never been able to understand how spirits and humans could cohabit and bring forth. Well I guess I understand that people can be occupied by the demonic spirit...but that is not " bring forth " offspring that are " half and half". I can't wrap my head around that.

I have read that ' the sons of God were of the line of Seth...and they came down from living close to Eden....and came down to the valley and married 'the daughters of men'= those of the offspring of Cain. ( Is thatbmsybe in the Apocrapha )
I can just about handle that much. LOL

I have also heard that the line of Adam cohabited with what was left of the "Cave men".

(I have never understood where they fit in!! )
But....fallen angels and humans???
I do wish Moses had elaborated more on it. But, maybe he just wrote down what he heard God speaking to him..and didn't want to interrupt the flow by asking questions!! I doubt he knew any more than we do!!

I won't be adding much on the thread, as I know nothing, and have no opinions on it.
But....I'm am for sure listening...

 

[Job]

..but that is not " bring forth " offspring that are " half and half". I can't wrap my head around that.

They did the same with animals.

 

[Dcopymope]

The law was given through Moses to Israel, but the Apostle tells us that even those outside the covenants have a law within them that approves or condemns them. The covenants and the law as we understand them apply to man, but what law applies to the angelic host? Angels are required to do God's word, which is to say that personal choice is never an option for them and amounts to rebellion.
Now, the Nephilim, the descendants of the sons of God, if they are indeed of angelic descent, are part human and part man. Do they answer to angelic law, human law, or both?
There probably wasn't a genetic footprint of the Nephilim in the DNA of Noah's family, but it was a possibility if the Nephilim were able to have children of their own.

I think there is a fundamental understanding about the law that you are missing. The reason why you will never find anything about a "law" that angels must follow as opposed to the law given to Moses is because God IS the law. Its not something that exists apart from his nature, he is the standard. When iniquity was found within Satan, the "law" as most people understand it today didn't exist. Iniquity was within him because it was an affront to the character of God. Anything that is against the "law" is against God by default. That's why the "law" had to be fulfilled for your sins to be atoned for, with an unblemished sacrifice. Its not a matter of "angelic" or "human" law, because there is only one "law" that matters when it comes down to it.

They did the same with animals.

I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with God saying that "all flesh had corrupted its way on the earth". I would personally like to see a vision of what those days were really like. It was obviously a living nightmare.

 

[Job]

I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with God saying that "all flesh had corrupted its way on the earth". I would personally like to see a vision of what those days were really like. It was obviously a living nightmare.

Go to Youtube and listen to the book of Enoch.

 

[Dcopymope]

Go to Youtube and listen to the book of Enoch.

Yep, I've read a little of the book of Enoch, at least the first few chapters concerning the pre-flood world. Like the rest of the extra biblical text, there really isn't much worth in it beyond that since there are too many contradictions within them even with the days of Noah. They often cite certain passages from it that to them suggests the angels were imprisoned somewhere in Antarctica, but you'll run into the same problem that you see finding the location of Eden, which is the drastic change to earths geography due to the flood.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm assuming that as created beings that were created as ministers to men, that Christ created them as close to human as possible. In order for them to produce viable offspring with humans, from a genetic standpoint, they had to be very similar. I even believe that some human "mutations" such as gigantism are not mutations at all but the expression of foreign recessive genes that survive in the population and were concentrated in the royal families because of inbreeding. I believe the primary differences between men and angels is more likely spiritual and as related to their moral compass. These are beings created to serve men and execute God's word and justice. They have to preserve life in one moment and take it in another. When God has required this from men, men have often failed because of those divine qualities of compassion and mercy. These were never options to the angelic host and probably part of the reason they have strong desire to understand God's work in men. If this were true, the descendants of the Nephilim would tend to be large and suited for labor and with a strong built in sense of law and justice, possibly good cops, soldiers, firemen, builders, etc.
Remember, this is just speculation, but not without purpose.

 

[Truth]

Dcopymope-- Hit it on the head, GOD is the Law, Jesus said when there were others casting out demons,if they are with us how can they be against us.So there is only one Standard, How else did Satin Displease God and for Him to say that he was in Rebellion. As far as these Celestial beings being able to procreate with humans, and or animals, all we have to go on is what the Scriptures give us. without more Info we are just Speculating, and just leaves it to our Imagination.

 

[Helen]

Dcopymope-- Hit it on the head, GOD is the Law, Jesus said when there were others casting out demons,if they are with us how can they be against us.So there is only one Standard, How else did Satin Displease God and for Him to say that he was in Rebellion. As far as these Celestial beings being able to procreate with humans, and or animals, all we have to go on is what the Scriptures give us. without more Info we are just Speculating, and just leaves it to our Imagination.

Yes, that is about where I am on this too. As yet I haven't seen anything confirming anything different!!

 

[Stranger]

Would not (Gen. 3:15) pertain to this also. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed:" Who is satans seed? And how is it passed on?

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Would not (Gen. 3:15) pertain to this also. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed:" Who is satans seed? And how is it passed on?

Stranger

Hey there ...I'm not sure it should be " who is satan's seed", but rather, 'what' is satan's seed. My thoughts-

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
So he is the father of Liars.... no lie outside of him. Lies are "conceived" in our heart and mind. That is why we are 'in Christ' The Truth now. Our only hope!!
So, I still believe that any "mating"...union...was in the mind and heart, not physical union. She received the repents seed in her mind and heart ...
Eve no more "mated" with satan than Judas did:-
Jon 13:27 "And after the sop satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly."
I think the other stuff about Even and satan is all fairy tales...much like the "British Israelites" and other things..

Of interest, (or not ha! ).....God did use it to draw me to Himself. I got very interested in British Israel and started reading all the books. I found it so fascinating.. my dad was a traveling Methodist preacher at that time...he was probably a bit worried about me getting into it ( and I still wasn't saved) So he sent an old Pentecostal Pastor friend of his to visit me.
He as dad hoped he would, led me to the lord..I was sad to find out that British Israelite was just a vapour and just made good reading...much like the 'Eve & Serpent' story.
If people believe that that they mated...how? How could a snake and a woman mate...!!! ( not that I believe that satan was a "snake" other than by nature....) People choose it to believe in literal trees and literal snakes..but kind of spiritualise how it could in fact be physically done!
These thing were true and happened...but I believe that because God is God...He speaks down to us like we would speak to a tiny ant...it's 'ant talk' for our tiny tiny still carnal brains...we could never comprehend what He was saying if He spoke other than in spiritual picture form... that is the wonder of the Bible...it's a spiritual book that can only be understood by the spirit.
Whoops, sorry for the ramble!

 

[Stranger]

Hey there ...I'm not sure it should be " who is satan's seed", but rather, 'what' is satan's seed. My thoughts-

John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
So he is the father of Liars.... no lie outside of him. Lies are "conceived" in our heart and mind. That is why we are 'in Christ' The Truth now. Our only hope!!
So, I still believe that any "mating"...union...was in the mind and heart, not physical union. She received the repents seed in her mind and heart ...
Eve no more "mated" with satan than Judas did:-
Jon 13:27 "And after the sop satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly."
I think the other stuff about Even and satan is all fairy tales...much like the "British Israelites" and other things..

Of interest, (or not ha! ).....God did use it to draw me to Himself. I got very interested in British Israel and started reading all the books. I found it so fascinating.. my dad was a traveling Methodist preacher at that time...he was probably a bit worried about me getting into it ( and I still wasn't saved) So he sent an old Pentecostal Pastor friend of his to visit me.
He as dad hoped he would, led me to the lord..I was sad to find out that British Israelite was just a vapour and just made good reading...much like the 'Eve & Serpent' story.
If people believe that that they mated...how? How could a snake and a woman mate...!!! ( not that I believe that satan was a "snake" other than by nature....) People choose it to believe in literal trees and literal snakes..but kind of spiritualise how it could in fact be physically done!
These thing were true and happened...but I believe that because God is God...He speaks down to us like we would speak to a tiny ant...it's 'ant talk' for our tiny tiny still carnal brains...we could never comprehend what He was saying if He spoke other than in spiritual picture form... that is the wonder of the Bible...it's a spiritual book that can only be understood by the spirit.
Whoops, sorry for the ramble!

Howdy, pleased to meet you.

But, if the Seed of the woman is a 'who', shouldn't we expect the seed of the serpent to be a 'who'. I feel like Dr. Seuss. In other words, satan was definitely behind the serpent and used the serpent. And it is to satan that this prophecy is given. It is to his 'seed'. I admit I don't know how that seed is given. But it is given. And it is the result of the fall. And, just like that Seed of the woman would be one individual, Jesus Christ, then why shouldn't that seed of the serpent also be one individual, the anti-christ.

No reason to be sorry. I don't hold to any British Israelite theology. But I do beleive the account of Adam and Eve and the serpent is true and literal. And of course, the Bible is a spiritual book. But that doens't mean it is not literal. And all it records did happen.

Since the time of Adam and Eve to the present, there is an antagonism and war between the Seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Well..... Eve 'saw that the 'fruit' of the tree was good...and able to make one wise.' I believe that Eve believed the lie.
The lie being that God was not Good, or Truth-ful. ..and was holding out on them in not giving them full knowledge and wisdom...and she believed satan's lie, ( conceived).
As you say:- "there is an antagonism and war between the Seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent." I still believe the "seed" is the continued lie that God is not Good or of The Truth. It has continued right until today. Satan still sows it, and many still believe it and receive that seed. He even tries it on with us...like something goes wrong in our life, like a family member dies, God did not answer our prayer. Satan whispers in our ear.
:- "Is God really good , He let you down, why bother to pray, it's a waste of time.." The Lie..the same lie as in the beginning. Undermining the character and nature of God!!!
In my book, that is the "seed of satan." The seed of the Woman,(= Jesus and His living Church) There will always be a war between the two..." The Truth v The Lie ".......and we know who wins.
I know I may well be talking out of the top of my head. LOL
But, until I am persuaded of something different. This is where 'I am' at the moment. Nothing yet has changed this for a long time.
✟

 

[Stranger]

"By Grace"

Sounds good.

I always keep two important quotes in mind. "Yea hath God said" and "It is written".

Stranger

 

[Helen]

"By Grace"

Sounds good.

I always keep two important quotes in mind. "Yea hath God said" and "It is written".

Stranger

Totally agree...Two very good foundational scriptures through life!

 

[michaelvpardo]

Would not (Gen. 3:15) pertain to this also. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed:" Who is satans seed? And how is it passed on?

Stranger

good question.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Here's a thing I wonder about. There is only one gospel for men as far as I know, Jesus spoke quite a bit about judgment being based upon what we do with His words. So what is the "eternal gospel" for (mentioned in the last book of scripture)?
And what is Isaiah chapter 34 about? The animals mentioned are all "unclean."