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Just who is this BARREN Woman?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by afaithfulone4u, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. afaithfulone4u

    afaithfulone4u New Member

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    Isa 54:1
    54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
    KJV
    Gal 4:27-31
    27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
    30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman{Cast those in bondage of the old covenant OUT and into the New covenant to save them} and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
    31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
    KJV
    Ps 113 2013
    1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise, O ye servants of the LORD, praise the name of the LORD.
    2 Blessed be the name of the LORD from this time forth and for evermore.
    3 From the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORD's name is to be praised.
    4 The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.
    5 Who is like unto the LORD our God, who dwelleth on high,
    6 Who humbleth himself to behold the things that are in heaven, and in the earth!
    7 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill;
    8 That he may set him with princes, even with the princes of his people.
    9 He maketh the barren woman to keep house, and to be a joyful mother of children. Praise ye the LORD.
    KJV

    Why, it is our mother and bride of the Lamb, The City heavenly Jerusalem who births her children spiritually, not physically!!
    Rev 12:1-5
    12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    1 Thess 4:16-17
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    KJV
    KJV
     
  2. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

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    Do you think it could be that the child born and caught up to heaven are people who will suddenly be awakened?


    That one day certain people will suddenly be endued with the spirit of God, but they are not physically taken up?
     
  3. daq

    daq HSN#1851

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    The Bride of Messiah is the Daughter of Jerusalem and the Daughter of Zion given him from heaven:

    John 3:27-35 KJV
    27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
    28. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
    29. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
    30. He must increase, but I must decrease.
    31. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
    32. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
    33. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
    34. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
    35. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


    The Father is the King and he is in the Son from the time of his immersion-baptism under John at the Jordan.
    The Father therefore gives the Spirit to the Son without measure and speaks the Logos through him.
    Both the King and the Son come to the Daughter of Zion-Jerusalem at Palm Sunday:

    Matthew 21:1-5 KJV
    1. And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
    2. Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
    3. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
    4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
    5. Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.


    Zechariah 9:8-9 KJV
    8. And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
    9. Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.


    Jerusalem of Above is our "covenant mother" but Yeshua is not the Father.
    The Bride of Yeshua is New Jerusalem and the Daughter of Zion and Jerusalem. :)
     
  4. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    The 'blessed are the barren' Message is about both Jerusalem and... her children.

    Luke 23:27-31
    27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
    28 But Jesus turning unto them said,
    "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
    29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say,
    'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
    30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'.
    31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
    (KJV)



    As our Lord Jesus was carrying His cross up the hill to be crucified, He noted women of Jerusalem weeping for Him. He turned to them and quoted that from Isaiah 54 as a... warning for them and... their children.

    He also quoted what they will begin to say after those days come, wishing for the mountains to "Fall on us", and to the hills, "Cover us". That is in relation to the Isaiah 2 prophecy of the Day of The LORD events, the time of Christ's return. This was also written in Hosea 10:8 of those who will be ashamed for having fallen into false worship of the high places of Aven (vanity), the sin of Israel, when that sin is finally destroyed at Christ's second coming on that day. This is also quoted in Rev.6 on the 6th Seal events with those seeking for the mountains and rocks to fall on them to hide from the face of Him Who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of The Lamb. The idea is put for shame by those of Israel that rejected Christ Jesus when they discover Who He really is at His return.

    Because of how our Lord Jesus quoted that passage from Isa.54 about those daughters of Jerusalem, He made His Message in Isaiah 54 to be include them and not just Jerusalem only.

    Isa 54:1-13
    1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.


    This is a Message in metaphor, simply because usually, the married wife in the Biblical sense would have more children than the un-married wife. But in this, the barren woman, the desolate woman who's womb is barren without child, has more children than the married wife.

    The metaphor is about true worship vs. false worship. Apostle Paul also used this metaphor in 2 Corinthians 11 when he said he sought to present the believer to Christ as a "chaste virgin". He said we are espoused to one Husband, to Christ Jesus. In the Biblical sense, an unmarried virgin who is 'espoused' is already treated as being married to the one she is espoused to. It was a grave sin for anyone to try and break that espousal up in Old Testament times.

    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.


    This is about Jerusalem and the holy land, because it's about the idea of spreading out the tents and stakes, an increase of inhabitants. Believing Israel shall inherit the believing Gentiles, and the area of habitation in the holy lands will be stretched out to include them. This is how the barren woman is blessed, having more children than the married woman in the verse above.

    4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

    This above about the barren is in opposite to the unbelieving daughters of Jerusalem that wept for Christ, to whom He gave warning that days would come when they will say that it's the 'barren' (woman) instead who is blessed, and then will want for the mountains and hills to fall on them due to their shame when Jesus appears at His return.

    But for those who believe, which represent the 'barren' woman, she is being comforted here in this above verse, because of her afflictions during this present time. This includes the idea of Jerualem being a widow without God's Presence, His having forsaken Jerusalem for a little while.


    5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.
    6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
    7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.


    Jerusalem isn't gathered, but the children of Israel that believe will be, along with the believing Gentiles. So this is not about the land of Jerusalem only, but includes her children in Christ Jesus. This is where Apostle Paul got the idea of our being espoused to One Husband (Christ) from, per the 2 Cor.11 Scripture. If you understand about the ten lost tribes, it has even greater meaning about the future gathering to Christ Jesus at His return.


    8 In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
    9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
    10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.
    11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
    12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
    13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
    (KJV)


    In the above, the area of Jerusalem is especially meant as a barren woman forsaken, until God redeems her to Himself again at Christ's return.


    Thusly...

    barren woman = those in Christ Jesus of both believing Israelite and believing Gentile; i.e., true worshippers.

    married woman = those who reject Christ Jesus and are deceived into the high places of Aven (vanity), i.e., false worshippers.


    So huge question presents itself if one has understood this Blessed are the barren Message; just who... is the one that the married woman is already married to in regard to false worship?
     
  5. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    The "woman" of Isaiah 54 is mentioned for the first time immediately after Adam and Eve's rebellion in the Garden of Eden at Genesis 3:15. Though Genesis 3:16 is concerning the woman Eve, the "woman" in verse 15 is symbolic and is Jehovah God's celestial organization of heavenly angelic hosts that would produce a primary "offspring" ("seed", KJV) and is later identified as Jesus Christ and in which the "woman's offspring" stands in contrast to the "serpent's offspring".


    This brings to light that from near the inception of mankind's history, another organization besides Jehovah God's, came into existence, Satan's, and in which both are diametrically opposed to each other, each having their "offspring" that has enmity or hatred towards each other.(1 John 3:10)


    This enmity or hatred that began some 6,000 years ago, continues down to our time period (called "the Lord's day" at Rev 1:10, a time period that began in 1914 with Jesus being installed as king of God's Kingdom), for Revelation 12 says that "the dragon (Satan) became enraged at the woman and went off the wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus."(Rev 12:17)


    At Isaiah 54, this symbolic "woman" is seen as a "barren woman", having no "sons" for a time. This symbolic "woman" was seen through fleshly Israel, but due to its rebelliousness, this changed, being a transition from fleshly Jerusalem (who was "abandoned" by God in 33 C.E., Matt 23:37-39), and in which Galatians 4:25 says that "Hagar....corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children", to the spiritual "Jerusalem above" who gathers in "the children of the promise".(Gal 4:26-28; Rom 9:8)


    Isaiah 54:7 says that "for a brief moment I abandoned you (from the death of Jesus to Pentecost), but with great mercy I will gather you back." This spiritual "woman" is also spoken as "Zion" at Isaiah 49:14 that was ' abandoned and forgotten' as Jesus said at the end of his ministry, but receives her ' sons coming from far away ' at Isaiah 49:12. Suddenly she has "sons" though having no birth pains.(Isa 54:1) when holy spirit was poured out upon the 120 in Jerusalem on Pentecost 33 C.E.(Acts 2:4)


    With this began the ingathering of the "woman's (spiritual) sons". This signaled a change from fleshly Zion to spiritual "Zion", so that "no more will you be called an abandoned woman.....But you will be called My Delight Is In Her....For Jehovah will take delight in you."(Isa 62:4)


    But there is the need to make her tent "more spacious....lengthen your tent cords, and make your tent pins strong" (Isa 54:2) because more there will be more than 120 "sons". Isaiah 49:20 says that her "sons" express that there not enough room, saying: "This place is too cramped for me. Make room for me to dwell here."


    Her "sons" will "take possession of nations" (Isa 54:3), using their power as spirit sons of God after their resurrection to destroy all the political nations.(Rev 2:26; Matt 24:29-31) She is told to "not be afraid...and do not feel humiliated, for you will forget the shame of your youth."(Isa 54:4) But the 120 is just the initial selection, for many more will be added, so that there is the need to make her "tent more spacious". When completed, the once "barren woman" will have 144,001 sons.(Rev 7:4; 14:1)


    Jehovah God makes a "covenant of peace" with this once "barren (and rebellious) woman".(Isa 54:10) Because Phinehas proved unreservedly loyal to God by putting Zimri and Cobzi to death, who "tolerated no rivalry at all toward" Jehovah (Num 25:10), God made a "covenant of peace" with him.(Num 25:10-13)


    Though at one time "storm-tossed, uncomforted", she now shows herself irrevocably loyal to God like Phinehas, so that God says of this once "barren woman", that he is "laying your foundation with hard mortar and your foundation with sapphires. I will make your battlements of rubies, your gates of sparkling stones, and all your boundaries of precious stones."(Isa 54:11, 12) Isaiah 62:3 says that "you will become a crown of beauty in the hand of Jehovah, a royal turban in the palm of your God."


    She is beautified by Jehovah, for her spiritual qualities have made her so, never adulterating "the truth" of the Bible, but glorifying Jehovah God by both righteous conduct and boldly making his name known, unlike the churches of Christendom who has defiled herself with pagan teachings and practices and committed "prostitution" with "the kings (political leaders) of the earth."(Rev 17:1, 2)


    Jesus, quoting from Isaiah 54:13, tells the Jews about her "sons": "It is written in the prophets: ' They will all be taught by Jehovah.' "(John 6:45) Since these "sons" are "taught by Jehovah", they stand for Jehovah's righteous requirements and exposes false religion (Babylon the Great, Rev 17:5) that has brought great reproach on his name.


    The 144,000 "sons" of the "woman" (who are "bought" from the earth, Rev 5:9) form the congregation of anointed Christians and make up God's Messianic Kingdom, and who are resurrected during "the last day" that began in 1914 with the establishment of God's Kingdom.(John 6:39, 44) These are sons of God's symbolic wife (Jehovah's celestial organization that involves the faithful angels), and who is the "woman" at Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 54, 60, 62 and 66 as well as Revelation 12, and known also as "heavenly Jerusalem" (Heb 12:22-24) as well as "Jerusalem above".(Gal 4:26)


    Of the symbolic "barren woman", Isaiah 54:14 says that she "will be firmly established in righteousness....You will fear nothing and have no cause for terror, for it will not come near you." At Isaiah 62, it addresses the "woman", saying: "The nations will see your righteousness (through her "sons" while on earth, Rev 12:17), O woman, and all the kings your glory. And you will be called by a new name, which Jehovah's own mouth will designate."(Isa 62:2)


    And at Isaiah 66, of the "woman", it says that "before she went into labor, she gave birth. Before birth pangs came to her, she delivered a male child [not Jesus Christ]."(Isa 66:7) It then says: "Who has ever heard of such a thing ? Who has seen such things ? Will a land be brought to birth in one day ? Or will a nation be born all at once ? Yet, as soon as Zion (or the "woman") went into labor, she gave birth to her sons."(Isa 66:8)


    At Matthew 21, Jesus speaks of ' a new nation ' and tells the Jewish religious leaders as representatives for the nation of fleshly Israel: "Did you never read in the Scriptures (at Isa 28:16), ' The stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone. This has come from Jehovah, and it is marvelous in our eyes' ? This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits. Also the person falling on this stone (God's Messianic Kingdom with Jesus as its primary king) will be shattered. As for anyone on whom it falls, it will crush him."(Matt 21:42-44; Dan 2:44)


    This "new nation", the "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16), came into existence on Pentecost 33 C.E. when they were "sealed by means of him (Jehovah) with the promised holy spirit" (Eph 1:13; Acts 2:4), and over the course of almost 2,000 years, 144,000 "sons" are "bought from among (imperfect) mankind" (Rev 14:4) by Jehovah and anointed to become "kings and priests".(Rev 1:6; 2 Thess 2:13)
     
  6. Floyd

    Floyd Active Member

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    Isa 54:1
    54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
    KJV

    She is "unfaithful Israel".
    She will be superseded by "Jeshuran"; "ideal Israel" in the future!
    See Deut.
    Floyd.
     
  7. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

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    Just love this thread.
     
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