JW Non-Millennialism: Jesus comes again 'in the flesh'

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robert derrick

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I didn't know JWs are non-millennialists. While I'm sure that doesn't mean all Amils are JW's; I have been asking certain of them if they are, because much of their Amil teaching looks like the natural theology of JWs found elsewhere. So I went to the source to see if JWs are Amils, and they are:

Many churches teach that Christ will return in the flesh, even as in the second century the idea developed that Jesus and his associate king-priests would reign in the flesh on earth during the millennium.

This is an excerpt from JW's non-millennialism.

It's a classic corruption of Scripture, in order to misstate Millennialism.

No Scripture says Jesus Christ is coming again in the flesh. Neither does any Scripture say His saints will rule with Him in the flesh.

'In the flesh' is a strictly Scriptural term used in two distinct ways: All men come into the world in the flesh, with mortal bodies. And all sinners are in the flesh unrighteously, so as to be walking in the flesh and doing the works of the flesh.

Jesus Christ is not coming again in the flesh, and His resurrected saints will not be ruling with Him in the flesh.

Since those inheriting the Kingdom go to heaven, all the sectarian fantasies about Jesus and the “saints” ruling in the flesh from earthly Jerusalem or Phrygia and indulging in the sensual pleasures of the flesh simply are unfounded.

And so, we see how the first lie is then used to turn Millennialism into a mockery, so that the resurrected saints are not just ruling in the flesh, but will be in the flesh unrighteously, like some Sybaritic pagan gods, or corrupt angels mating with daughters of men.

This kind of slandering of the risen Lord and His saints, is akin to another Amil tactic of trying to say His reign on earth will be over a bunch of evil reprobates, full of war and wrath and murderers going unpunished.

A sure sign of desperate dishonest teachers, is misstating the teaching of others into mockery and contempt. They can't be honest about simple objections, because they can't allow any of their self-made armour to be chinked in any way, lest they lose their armor altogether and be found naked and exposed.

Jesus is not coming again in the flesh, nor will His saints behave unrighteous in the things of the flesh, but He will simply be appearing on earth in sight of all men again, with His resurrected immortal body.

And why not? He did so for 40 days, walking and talking with over a hundred of His disciples. He can do so when He wants, and however long He wants, while the Father remains seated on His throne in glory, and the Spirit continues drawing all men to the Lord.

The only christ coming in the flesh just before His appearing in the air, will be the last great antichrist false apostle, who will appear to have risen from the dead, and will have fire come down out of heaven in the sight of men.

It will be seen who receives that one.
 
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robert derrick

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The Bible does not say that such “partakers of the heavenly calling” will ever, even for the 1,000 years, receive human bodies. Instead, it clearly shows that spirit-anointed Christians will be “raised up a spiritual body,” as was Jesus Christ, in order to enter into heaven itself.

Once again, the corrupting of scriptural millennialism continues along the same lines:

That the Lord cannot appear with His immortal body looking the same as in the days of His flesh. They speak as though He must be given once again a mortal human body to appear in sight of men on earth.

It is a rejection of Luke 24, when His apostles immediately recognized Him.

And the reason it is rejected by JW Amils, is because of their rejection of the bodily resurrection.

All souls cease to exist, when the body is dead, and it is only another fashioned spiritual body made for those deified to heaven.

Therefore, Jesus could not have been in resurrected body and recognized by His disciples on earth, nor to reign on earth.

And so, we see how many times, it's not even the doctrine at hand, that false teachers care about, but it's really all about their main doctrine, which for JW's is oblivion or heaven.
 

robert derrick

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Under that heavenly government the earth, cleansed of wicked ones, will be restored to peaceful paradise conditions to be enjoyed by God’s human servants.

And so, we once again the similarity between Amils and JW's.

Amils mock and scoff at an earth cleansed of the wicked, leaving only natural sheep for Christ to rule on earth, as well as to draw them to Him for salvation.
 

robert derrick

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All the Biblical and historical evidence indicating that we are in the last days of this wicked system of things gives us a firm basis for expecting the millennium of peace to begin in the near future. (2 Tim. 3:1-5) What will the earth then be like?

And finally, JW's teach the Amil prophecy that it is only the new earth, that Christ will reign over, and not this earth. Or at least, not this earth as it is, but as a born again earth as by fire at His coming again.

This is in line with the JW teaching, that Jesus was non-existent for three days, and was recreated as Michael.

A recreated christ to reign on a recreated earth.

I believe Amillennialism is an offshoot of JW, the same as the natural theology of souls being only flesh and blood bodies, and then recreated spiritual bodies of angels.

It's really all about teaching oblivion or heaven, to remove any torment of hell or the LOF, for the rebellious angels and unrepented wicked souls of man.
 
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WPM

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I didn't know JWs are non-millennialists. While I'm sure that doesn't mean all Amils are JW's; I have been asking certain of them if they are, because much of their Amil teaching looks like the natural theology of JWs found elsewhere. So I went to the source to see if JWs are Amils, and they are:

Many churches teach that Christ will return in the flesh, even as in the second century the idea developed that Jesus and his associate king-priests would reign in the flesh on earth during the millennium.

This is an excerpt from JW's non-millennialism.

It's a classic corruption of Scripture, in order to misstate Millennialism.

No Scripture says Jesus Christ is coming again in the flesh. Neither does any Scripture say His saints will rule with Him in the flesh.

'In the flesh' is a strictly Scriptural term used in two distinct ways: All men come into the world in the flesh, with mortal bodies. And all sinners are in the flesh unrighteously, so as to be walking in the flesh and doing the works of the flesh.

Jesus Christ is not coming again in the flesh, and His resurrected saints will not be ruling with Him in the flesh.

Since those inheriting the Kingdom go to heaven, all the sectarian fantasies about Jesus and the “saints” ruling in the flesh from earthly Jerusalem or Phrygia and indulging in the sensual pleasures of the flesh simply are unfounded.

And so, we see how the first lie is then used to turn Millennialism into a mockery, so that the resurrected saints are not just ruling in the flesh, but will be in the flesh unrighteously, like some Sybaritic pagan gods, or corrupt angels mating with daughters of men.

This kind of slandering of the risen Lord and His saints, is akin to another Amil tactic of trying to say His reign on earth will be over a bunch of evil reprobates, full of war and wrath and murderers going unpunished.

A sure sign of desperate dishonest teachers, is misstating the teaching of others into mockery and contempt. They can't be honest about simple objections, because they can't allow any of their self-made armour to be chinked in any way, lest they lose their armor altogether and be found naked and exposed.

Jesus is not coming again in the flesh, nor will His saints behave unrighteous in the things of the flesh, but He will simply be appearing on earth in sight of all men again, with His resurrected immortal body.

And why not? He did so for 40 days, walking and talking with over a hundred of His disciples. He can do so when He wants, and however long He wants, while the Father remains seated on His throne in glory, and the Spirit continues drawing all men to the Lord.

The only christ coming in the flesh just before His appearing in the air, will be the last great antichrist false apostle, who will appear to have risen from the dead, and will have fire come down out of heaven in the sight of men.

It will be seen who receives that one.

It is becoming more and more clear that facts and truth matter little to you. Whatever suits your imaginations is what is right. The JWs teach what you teach. They are Premil. They are NOT Amil as you allege. Most of the cults are Premil. This whole thread is a delusion. It is fake news. This is what your threads are. When your claims are refuted on each thread you run and start up another thread of lies. That is not Christian behavior. That is the work of the enemy.

Because you have been unable to pin anything unbiblical upon Amillennialism so far, you have been forced to invent lies. If you would simply do due diligence, you would save yourself making a fool of yourself on each thread. Ignorance is no excuse. You should have researched the facts first before spreading your lies. Shame on you!

You have no interest in the truth. Your aim to discredit Amil at any cost, regardless of whether your arguments are true or not.

Why would any poster take you serious?


"Jehovah’s Witnesses are a millennialist movement, a central teaching of the movement being that we are living in the Last Days and that Armageddon is imminent. Witnesses seek to share this message with the public through their door-to-door evangelizing activities and literature stands. Baptized, active Witnesses (publishers) spend time in voluntary evangelistic activities as the cornerstone of their faith—being a witness for Jehovah. Their publications, The Watchtower and Awake!, freely distributed, describe current events as signs of the End Times."

"During Armageddon, it is believed, Christ will lead an army of angels to defeat the earth’s rulers. Satan will be imprisoned for a thousand years, and earth will gradually become a paradise, led by Christ as ruler in heaven (the Millennium). The 144,000, the ‘anointed class’, will be co-rulers with Christ and will inhabit spiritual bodies in heaven. The majority of the 144,000 are already believed to be in heaven. This group, led by Christ, will form the awaited theocratic government."
 
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robert derrick

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It is becoming clear that facts and truth matter little to you. Whatever suits your imaginations is what is right. The JWs teach what you teach. They are Premil.

You know no more about what JW Amillennialism is, than the millennialism of Scripture.

No only do you refuse to be corrected by others, but you can't even correct someone else, because you don't refute any point specifically.

Most of the cults are Premil.
There is no premil. There is either belief in the thousand year reign of Christ on this earth, or there isn't: it's Millennialism or non-millennialism.

And yes, there are certain Pentecostal cultish groups that are Millennialists, even as with non-millennialists, like JW's.

However, you're of no use to anyone, other than your own playmates agreeing with you.

Which is definitely cultish separatism in behavior.

I quote JW's, and you come back with some commentator of JW's. Are you that vacuous?

As I said, you are of no use, other than any new thing you may reveal about your non-millennialism.

At those times, I get to search the scriptures to see if it is true or not, which is rare, but even in refuting errors, a great knowledge of the truth becomes clear.
 
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robert derrick

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This is a religious commentator on JWs, that is not correct:

Jehovah’s Witnesses are a millennialist movement,

No, they are a non millennialist movement, that rejects the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and His saints reigning over natural people on this earth for one thousand years to the day.

...And earth will gradually become a paradise, led by Christ as ruler in heaven (the Millennium). The 144,000, the ‘anointed class’, will be co-rulers with Christ and will inhabit spiritual bodies in heaven.

This is not millennialism, which does not expire after a thousand years on this earth. Neither is it JW, who rejects Jesus Christ and His saints reigning in person on this earth.

It's a quasi-spiritual rule from heaven, with the devil bound up from the earth, while the earth gradually becomes the new earth.

It's a mythical religious type of Isaac Asimov's Utopian Foundation Trilogy.

And it's a JW hybrid by an ignorant commentator.
 

WPM

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You know no more about what JW Amillennialism is, than the millennialism of Scripture.

No only do you refuse to be corrected by others, but you can't even correct someone else, because you don't refute any point specifically.


There is no premil. There is either belief in the thousand year reign of Christ on this earth, or there isn't: it's Millennialism or non-millennialism.

And yes, there are certain Pentecostal cultish groups that are Millennialists, even as with non-millennialists, like JW's.

However, you're of no use to anyone, other than your own playmates agreeing with you.

Which is definitely cultish separatism in behavior.

I quote JW's, and you come back with some commentator of JW's. Are you that vacuous?

As I said, you are of no use, other than any new thing you may reveal about your non-millennialism.

At those times, I get to search the scriptures to see if it is true or not, which is rare, but even in refuting errors, a great knowledge of the truth becomes clear.

"Jehovah’s Witness, member of a millennialist denomination that developed within the larger 19th-century Adventist movement in the United States and has since spread worldwide. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are an outgrowth of the International Bible Students Association, which was founded in 1872 in Pittsburgh by Charles Taze Russell."
 
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WPM

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This is a religious commentator on JWs, that is not correct ...

they are a non millennialist movement, that rejects the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and His saints reigning over natural people on this earth for one thousand years to the day.

Let us see what the Watchtower organization teaches instead of the fake news your are promoting:


The Millennium—What Is It?

How has it been viewed? Can we expect it in the future?

“A time during which man’s yearnings for peace, freedom from evil, and the rule of righteousness upon earth are finally realized through the power of God.”

THAT is how the Encyclopædia Britannica describes the Bible teaching of the “1,000-year period, known as the millennium.”

Do you not agree that we would like such a description to become a reality? Certainly we would like to enjoy ‘peace, freedom from evil and righteousness upon earth.’ But is that prospect part of your belief concerning the millennium?

For many persons it is not, for they know little or nothing about the millennium. That is true even of millions who have attended church, because many religions leave the subject virtually unmentioned. It is almost as if it is something that God included in the Bible but that is no longer of interest or importance.

Yet, as we have seen, God’s Word links the millennium with a description of his wiping away sorrow, tears and death. So we have good reason to want to understand what Jehovah God says and means regarding the millennium. Our future and that of our family may well be involved.

You can open your Bible to Revelation chapter 20 to find the most of what the Bible says about the thousand-year reign of Christ. The apostle John shares with us what he was privileged to see:

“I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. . . .

“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them. . . . Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus. . . . And they came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years. . . .

“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth. . . . But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire. . . .

“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. . . . Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire [the second death].”—Rev. 20:1-15.

So, according to the Bible, the millennium is a period when Satan will not be free to mislead humans, the dead will be raised and judged, and mankind will be ruled righteously by Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

You may rightly wonder, though, why so little is heard about this in the churches or in religious circles. The fact is that if you inquired, you would find that some religions hold that the millennium is not a literal 1,000-year period during which Christ will rule. Another common teaching is that the millennium is but a symbol of Christ’s reign starting almost 2,000 years ago and still continuing. Just what are you to believe? We can be greatly helped in understanding this important matter by considering what the apostle John and his fellow apostles believed and also what developed after Jesus’ faithful apostles died by the end of the first century...

WHERE AND WHEN?

... some say that the millennium is not an actual period of 1,000 years, but is just a long, indefinite period that may have started centuries ago. Can that be correct? It is true that certain numbers or time periods in the book of Revelation are figurative, for the message of the book was presented in many “signs.” (Rev. 1:1, 4; 2:10) However, is there reason to believe that the “thousand years” is not a symbol?

In Revelation chapter seven the apostle makes a contrast between the set number who reign with Christ (144,000) and the indefinitely larger number who survive the “great tribulation.” How does John do so? He terms the latter group the “great crowd, which no man was able to number.” (Rev. 7:4, 9) Later on, he refers again to the definite number, “the hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Rev. 14:3) Similarly, in Revelation 20:8, John says that the indefinitely large number of persons rebelling at the end of the millennium “is as the sand of the sea.” Nor does the apostle John, in Revelation chapter 20, employ the plural “thousands,” which is sometimes used elsewhere to indicate a large and perhaps indefinite number. (Rev. 5:11; Dan. 7:10; 1 Sam. 18:7; Ps. 68:17; 119:72) So there seems to be no good reason to conclude that the expression “thousand years” of Re chapter 20 refers to a long but indefinite period. Rather, John uses the term in a way that indicates a period of set length—“the thousand years.”—Rev. 20:6...

The most direct approach is to accept John’s words for what they actually say—1,000 years. Many have seen in this an appropriate reign for Jesus Christ, whom the Bible calls the “Lord of the sabbath.” (Matt. 12:8) It would be like a sabbath rest day after some 6,000 years during which human imperfection dominated the earthly scene.—2 Pet. 3:8."
 
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Truth7t7

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I didn't know JWs are non-millennialists. While I'm sure that doesn't mean all Amils are JW's; I have been asking certain of them if they are, because much of their Amil teaching looks like the natural theology of JWs found elsewhere. So I went to the source to see if JWs are Amils, and they are:
Your claim is false, JW's are Millennialist, the very foundation of their name and teachings evolve around "The Kingdom"

JW's believe a chosen 144,000 rule in heaven with Jesus Christ, as those surviving Armageddon live on earth for a Millennium or 1,000 years

Wikipedia: Jehovah's Witnesses
Witnesses believe that a "little flock" of 144,000 selected humans go to heaven, but that the majority (the "other sheep") are to be resurrected by God to a cleansed earth after Armageddon. They interpret Revelation 14:1–5 to mean that the number of Christians going to heaven is limited to exactly 144,000, who will rule with Jesus as kings and priests over earth.[190]

They believe that baptism as a Jehovah's Witness is vital for salvation[191] and that only they meet scriptural requirements for surviving Armageddon, but that God is the final judge.[192][193]

During Christ's millennial reign, most people who died prior to Armageddon will be resurrected with the prospect of living forever; they will be taught the proper way to worship God to prepare them for their final test at the end of the millennium.[194][195]
 

Truth7t7

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Let us see what the Watchtower organization teaches instead of the fake news your are promoting:


The Millennium—What Is It?

How has it been viewed? Can we expect it in the future?

“A time during which man’s yearnings for peace, freedom from evil, and the rule of righteousness upon earth are finally realized through the power of God.”

THAT is how the Encyclopædia Britannica describes the Bible teaching of the “1,000-year period, known as the millennium.”

Do you not agree that we would like such a description to become a reality? Certainly we would like to enjoy ‘peace, freedom from evil and righteousness upon earth.’ But is that prospect part of your belief concerning the millennium?

For many persons it is not, for they know little or nothing about the millennium. That is true even of millions who have attended church, because many religions leave the subject virtually unmentioned. It is almost as if it is something that God included in the Bible but that is no longer of interest or importance.

Yet, as we have seen, God’s Word links the millennium with a description of his wiping away sorrow, tears and death. So we have good reason to want to understand what Jehovah God says and means regarding the millennium. Our future and that of our family may well be involved.

You can open your Bible to Revelation chapter 20 to find the most of what the Bible says about the thousand-year reign of Christ. The apostle John shares with us what he was privileged to see:

“I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. . . .

“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them. . . . Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus. . . . And they came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years. . . .

“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth. . . . But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire. . . .

“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. . . . Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire [the second death].”—Rev. 20:1-15.

So, according to the Bible, the millennium is a period when Satan will not be free to mislead humans, the dead will be raised and judged, and mankind will be ruled righteously by Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

You may rightly wonder, though, why so little is heard about this in the churches or in religious circles. The fact is that if you inquired, you would find that some religions hold that the millennium is not a literal 1,000-year period during which Christ will rule. Another common teaching is that the millennium is but a symbol of Christ’s reign starting almost 2,000 years ago and still continuing. Just what are you to believe? We can be greatly helped in understanding this important matter by considering what the apostle John and his fellow apostles believed and also what developed after Jesus’ faithful apostles died by the end of the first century...

WHERE AND WHEN?

... some say that the millennium is not an actual period of 1,000 years, but is just a long, indefinite period that may have started centuries ago. Can that be correct? It is true that certain numbers or time periods in the book of Revelation are figurative, for the message of the book was presented in many “signs.” (Rev. 1:1, 4; 2:10) However, is there reason to believe that the “thousand years” is not a symbol?

In Revelation chapter seven the apostle makes a contrast between the set number who reign with Christ (144,000) and the indefinitely larger number who survive the “great tribulation.” How does John do so? He terms the latter group the “great crowd, which no man was able to number.” (Rev. 7:4, 9) Later on, he refers again to the definite number, “the hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Rev. 14:3) Similarly, in Revelation 20:8, John says that the indefinitely large number of persons rebelling at the end of the millennium “is as the sand of the sea.” Nor does the apostle John, in Revelation chapter 20, employ the plural “thousands,” which is sometimes used elsewhere to indicate a large and perhaps indefinite number. (Rev. 5:11; Dan. 7:10; 1 Sam. 18:7; Ps. 68:17; 119:72) So there seems to be no good reason to conclude that the expression “thousand years” of Re chapter 20 refers to a long but indefinite period. Rather, John uses the term in a way that indicates a period of set length—“the thousand years.”—Rev. 20:6...

The most direct approach is to accept John’s words for what they actually say—1,000 years. Many have seen in this an appropriate reign for Jesus Christ, whom the Bible calls the “Lord of the sabbath.” (Matt. 12:8) It would be like a sabbath rest day after some 6,000 years during which human imperfection dominated the earthly scene.—2 Pet. 3:8.
I agree, who does the OP writer think he's kidding, JW's are Millennialist in their very name and foundational belief, the name of their meeting places "Kingdom Hall" on and on
 

WPM

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Your claim is false, JW's are Millennialist, the very foundation of their name and teachings evolve around "The Kingdom"

JW's believe a chosen 144,000 rule in heaven with Jesus Christ, as those surviving Armageddon live on earth for a Millennium or 1,000 years

Wikipedia: Jehovah's Witnesses
Witnesses believe that a "little flock" of 144,000 selected humans go to heaven, but that the majority (the "other sheep") are to be resurrected by God to a cleansed earth after Armageddon. They interpret Revelation 14:1–5 to mean that the number of Christians going to heaven is limited to exactly 144,000, who will rule with Jesus as kings and priests over earth.[190]

They believe that baptism as a Jehovah's Witness is vital for salvation[191] and that only they meet scriptural requirements for surviving Armageddon, but that God is the final judge.[192][193]

During Christ's millennial reign, most people who died prior to Armageddon will be resurrected with the prospect of living forever; they will be taught the proper way to worship God to prepare them for their final test at the end of the millennium.[194][195]

Exactly bro! This thread is a joke! The whole premise of his attack on Amil here is blatant lie. No professed believer should be comfortable with that. But he is. That speaks volumes for his misinformation campaign. This is a testimony that He has nothing authentic to pin on Amil, so he has to invent it.
 
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Truth7t7

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This is a religious commentator on JWs, that is not correct:

Jehovah’s Witnesses are a millennialist movement,

No, they are a non millennialist movement, that rejects the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and His saints reigning over natural people on this earth for one thousand years to the day.

...And earth will gradually become a paradise, led by Christ as ruler in heaven (the Millennium). The 144,000, the ‘anointed class’, will be co-rulers with Christ and will inhabit spiritual bodies in heaven.

This is not millennialism, which does not expire after a thousand years on this earth. Neither is it JW, who rejects Jesus Christ and His saints reigning in person on this earth.

It's a quasi-spiritual rule from heaven, with the devil bound up from the earth, while the earth gradually becomes the new earth.

It's a mythical religious type of Isaac Asimov's Utopian Foundation Trilogy.

And it's a JW hybrid by an ignorant commentator.
Your claim is false, JW's are 100% Millennialist, they believe that after Armageddon the Millennium starts on this earth, and it ends with Satan being loosed 1,000 literal years later for the final testing

Yes JW,s believe in a literal Kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years, you have nobody fooled

Just because "Some" Pre-Millennialist believe Jesus rules on a "Earthly Throne" and JW's a Heavenly throne for 1,000 literal years, doesn't erase the fact JW's are 100% Millennialist
 
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robert derrick

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Let us see what the Watchtower organization teaches instead of the fake news your are promoting:


The Millennium—What Is It?

How has it been viewed? Can we expect it in the future?

“A time during which man’s yearnings for peace, freedom from evil, and the rule of righteousness upon earth are finally realized through the power of God.”

THAT is how the Encyclopædia Britannica describes the Bible teaching of the “1,000-year period, known as the millennium.”

Do you not agree that we would like such a description to become a reality? Certainly we would like to enjoy ‘peace, freedom from evil and righteousness upon earth.’ But is that prospect part of your belief concerning the millennium?

For many persons it is not, for they know little or nothing about the millennium. That is true even of millions who have attended church, because many religions leave the subject virtually unmentioned. It is almost as if it is something that God included in the Bible but that is no longer of interest or importance.

Yet, as we have seen, God’s Word links the millennium with a description of his wiping away sorrow, tears and death. So we have good reason to want to understand what Jehovah God says and means regarding the millennium. Our future and that of our family may well be involved.

You can open your Bible to Revelation chapter 20 to find the most of what the Bible says about the thousand-year reign of Christ. The apostle John shares with us what he was privileged to see:

“I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. . . .

“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them. . . . Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus. . . . And they came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years. . . .

“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth. . . . But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire. . . .

“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. . . . Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire [the second death].”—Rev. 20:1-15.

So, according to the Bible, the millennium is a period when Satan will not be free to mislead humans, the dead will be raised and judged, and mankind will be ruled righteously by Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

You may rightly wonder, though, why so little is heard about this in the churches or in religious circles. The fact is that if you inquired, you would find that some religions hold that the millennium is not a literal 1,000-year period during which Christ will rule. Another common teaching is that the millennium is but a symbol of Christ’s reign starting almost 2,000 years ago and still continuing. Just what are you to believe? We can be greatly helped in understanding this important matter by considering what the apostle John and his fellow apostles believed and also what developed after Jesus’ faithful apostles died by the end of the first century...

WHERE AND WHEN?

... some say that the millennium is not an actual period of 1,000 years, but is just a long, indefinite period that may have started centuries ago. Can that be correct? It is true that certain numbers or time periods in the book of Revelation are figurative, for the message of the book was presented in many “signs.” (Rev. 1:1, 4; 2:10) However, is there reason to believe that the “thousand years” is not a symbol?

In Revelation chapter seven the apostle makes a contrast between the set number who reign with Christ (144,000) and the indefinitely larger number who survive the “great tribulation.” How does John do so? He terms the latter group the “great crowd, which no man was able to number.” (Rev. 7:4, 9) Later on, he refers again to the definite number, “the hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Rev. 14:3) Similarly, in Revelation 20:8, John says that the indefinitely large number of persons rebelling at the end of the millennium “is as the sand of the sea.” Nor does the apostle John, in Revelation chapter 20, employ the plural “thousands,” which is sometimes used elsewhere to indicate a large and perhaps indefinite number. (Rev. 5:11; Dan. 7:10; 1 Sam. 18:7; Ps. 68:17; 119:72) So there seems to be no good reason to conclude that the expression “thousand years” of Re chapter 20 refers to a long but indefinite period. Rather, John uses the term in a way that indicates a period of set length—“the thousand years.”—Rev. 20:6...

The most direct approach is to accept John’s words for what they actually say—1,000 years. Many have seen in this an appropriate reign for Jesus Christ, whom the Bible calls the “Lord of the sabbath.” (Matt. 12:8) It would be like a sabbath rest day after some 6,000 years during which human imperfection dominated the earthly scene.—2 Pet. 3:8."
At least now you're quoting from the source.

But, you left out the parts I quote in the beginning of the thread. Try reading something first, then reply.
 

robert derrick

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Your claim is false, JW's are Millennialist, the very foundation of their name and teachings evolve around "The Kingdom"
Since you don't know what Scriptural millennialism is, then you wouldn't what what false millennialism.

Their millennium is not the Lord's in Scripture.

Neither is any spiritual one today, nor one on the new earth:

Scripture's millinium has main points:
1. One thousand years long to the day.
2. The Lord and His saints will reign on this earth as it is, ruling over natural nations left alive after His second appearing.
3. The Lord and His saints will rule with their resurrected immortal bodies, just as Jesus walked among His disciples on earth for 40 days.

JW's believe a chosen 144,000 rule in heaven with Jesus Christ, as those surviving Armageddon live on earth for a Millennium or 1,000 years

As I said. False millennium of JWs, just like the false of non-mils, who say it is either spiritual only, or only on the new earth.
Wikipedia: Jehovah's Witnesses
Witnesses believe that a "little flock" of 144,000 selected humans go to heaven, but that the majority (the "other sheep") are to be resurrected by God to a cleansed earth after Armageddon. They interpret Revelation 14:1–5 to mean that the number of Christians going to heaven is limited to exactly 144,000, who will rule with Jesus as kings and priests over earth.[190]

They believe that baptism as a Jehovah's Witness is vital for salvation[191] and that only they meet scriptural requirements for surviving Armageddon, but that God is the final judge.[192][193]

During Christ's millennial reign, most people who died prior to Armageddon will be resurrected with the prospect of living forever; they will be taught the proper way to worship God to prepare them for their final test at the end of the millennium.[194][195]
Good JW, bad Scripture.

As usual.
 

robert derrick

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They believe in the Millennium.

Their own version. Just like their own gospel.
  • Millennial rulers with Christ (4-6)
In heaven only. Not on earth.

They reject the Lord's millennium, because it counters their heaven or oblivion natural theology.

They say the soul is flesh and blood and is mortal, and so ceases to exist, when the body is dead. Which means Jesus ceased to exist for three days, and was given an entirely new spiritual body as Michael, when deified in heaven.

And so, they reject the resurrection of the same body we have on earth.

And so, they reject Jesus being on earth in sight of His disciple, as well as during their 'millennial' reign. Which of course includes His resurrected saints. Hence they only rule from heaven, not on earth among men.

I only become knowledgeable of these things, when I see errors of others, that need be corrected.

Such as, not believing this heaven and earth becomes the LOF. Just joking friend!

I like your Scriptural discipline, and how you are not afraid to address specific points of others. Even if we don't always agree.

I will always be thankful to your correction about being born with some phantom sin molecule. That debunked tradition has cleared the way for very much Scriptural fruit, as well as a better walk with Jesus. Thanks much.
 

Truth7t7

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Scripture's millinium has main points:
1. One thousand years long to the day.
2. The Lord and His saints will reign on this earth as it is, ruling over natural nations left alive after His second appearing.
3. The Lord and His saints will rule with their resurrected immortal bodies, just as Jesus walked among His disciples on earth for 40 days.
There won't be a Millennial Kingdom On This Earth As You Falsely Claim, You And JW's Are In The Same Category Regarding False Claims Made

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
 
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WPM

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Since you don't know what Scriptural millennialism is, then you wouldn't what what false millennialism.

Their millennium is not the Lord's in Scripture.

Neither is any spiritual one today, nor one on the new earth:

Scripture's millinium has main points:
1. One thousand years long to the day.
2. The Lord and His saints will reign on this earth as it is, ruling over natural nations left alive after His second appearing.
3. The Lord and His saints will rule with their resurrected immortal bodies, just as Jesus walked among His disciples on earth for 40 days.



As I said. False millennium of JWs, just like the false of non-mils, who say it is either spiritual only, or only on the new earth.

Good JW, bad Scripture.

As usual.

You are so stubborn, you cannot even come to admit you were making false accusations and hurling lies. Christians when they are caught on repent and apologize. But not you!

This whole thread is a joke. Why would anyone take you serious from now on?

It is you that is promoting JW theology.
 
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ewq1938

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Their own version. Just like their own gospel.

Perhaps but the point was that they are not Amill's.



I like your Scriptural discipline, and how you are not afraid to address specific points of others. Even if we don't always agree.

I will always be thankful to your correction about being born with some phantom sin molecule. That debunked tradition has cleared the way for very much Scriptural fruit, as well as a better walk with Jesus. Thanks much.

Thanks for telling me. I had no idea something I shared had that much effect on you. Makes it worthwhile to share things!