King James Version

[RubberDuckey]

Is KJV good or bad and why? I'll tell you what I think after I get some answers.

 

[archaeologist5]

how about, your avatar makes me inclined NOT to respond to your posts, and your not posting your opinion first helps out.

 

[Foreigner]

....he says, responding to the post. :lol:

 

[charlesj]

Is KJV good or bad and why? I'll tell you what I think after I get some answers.

Hello Rubber Ducky:


The KJV has a lot of users that will swear by it.

I wouldn’t say “it’s bad,” but I will say I wish the
translators would have translated better. For example in Matthew 24:3 they translate the
Greek “aion” as world (also in other places. The Greek for world is “kosmos” and not aion.



The poor translation has caused a lot of false doctrines.



Another Greek word (doulos) they translated as “servant” and
would have been better translated “slave.”

I use to run around with a guy that told me “well, if it was
good enough for Paul, then it’s good enough for me.” LOL
(We know better.)







The disciples and Jesus ONLY HAD the scriptures (we call the
scriptures the “old testament.”) I
wonder what we would do if we only had the scriptures they used???







I use the KJV along with many other translations.







May the Lord be with you,



charlesj

 

[RubberDuckey]

how about, your avatar makes me inclined NOT to respond to your posts, and your not posting your opinion first helps out.

Sorry if the picture insulted you. I'll take it off.

Hello Rubber Ducky:


The KJV has a lot of users that will swear by it.

I wouldn’t say “it’s bad,” but I will say I wish the
translators would have translated better. For example in Matthew 24:3 they translate the
Greek “aion” as world (also in other places. The Greek for world is “kosmos” and not aion.



The poor translation has caused a lot of false doctrines.



Another Greek word (doulos) they translated as “servant” and
would have been better translated “slave.”

I use to run around with a guy that told me “well, if it was
good enough for Paul, then it’s good enough for me.” LOL
(We know better.)







The disciples and Jesus ONLY HAD the scriptures (we call the
scriptures the “old testament.”) I
wonder what we would do if we only had the scriptures they used???







I use the KJV along with many other translations.







May the Lord be with you,



charlesj

I agree with you. King James wanted the people to obey him. His way of doing that was to translate certain parts of the bible to imply or order people to obey their kings or leaders. Even if everything was translated with no error or corruption it will still be wrong. Only the bible in Hebrew and Greek (I think) will be correct.

 

[charlesj]

Sorry if the picture insulted you. I'll take it off.



I agree with you. King James wanted the people to obey him. His way of doing that was to translate certain parts of the bible to imply or order people to obey their kings or leaders. Even if everything was translated with no error or corruption it will still be wrong. Only the bible in Hebrew and Greek (I think) will be correct.

Hello Again Rubber Ducky:

I’m not sure of the “motive(s)” of why the 1611 KJV was
written.

It was at this time, 1611, that they added a “J” to the
Greek Ἰησοῦς and
called Him “Jesus.” From what I’ve read,
the Germans did not call Him Jesus, but Gesus.

I’ve studied the Greek and the Hebrew. I can do fairly well in the Greek, but can’t say the same for the Hebrew. There
is no “J” in either Hebrew or Greek. So where did the “J” come from?

My understanding is that it was first used in the 1611 KJV bible.

Before that time, for over
1500 years, Messiah was called by the Latin name, “Iesus.”

Most likely, His real name is Yahshua. Yah = God, Shua = saves.
Godsaves.

In my prayer life, I use the Name Yahshua or Yeshua to address the Lord. Jesus is a Gentile name. (The same with Jehovah, Jerusalem, John, etc. etc.)

You can also ask the question, why do we call the first half of our Bible the “Old Testament?” (Covenant).

The first half of our bible from Genesis to Malachi was called “the scriptures” by the apostles and
Jesus. The actual “old covenant” is found in Exodus 34:27,28.

The Jews called the first five books the Torah. The prophets they called the Nev’ium and the writings they called K’tuvim. The Jews took the first letter of Torah, Nev’ium and K’tuvim, added vowels, and
bingo, they got Tanakh. Therefore they call Genesis to Malachi “The Tanakh.” We call it the Old Testament.

While we are talking about the KJV, (and other translations) then another question comes up and you can ask
why do we call Torah (first five books of Moses) “the law?”

Also, when you get to Exodus 34:27ff or Deut 5:3ff you get what “we”
call the “ten commandments.” God never called them the “ten commandments.” He
called them the “ten Words.” In the Greek, it decalogue or decalogos. Deca = ten; logue or logos = words. (ten words.)



In the Hebrew, Ex 34:28, the Hebrew word “debar”
is translated commandment when it really means “words.” To translate debar as commandment I think is a
poor translation.

That’s my two cents.


May the Lord bless us as we study His Word.

Remember, “the sum of His Word is Truth.” (Psalms 119:160)

charlesj

 

[archaeologist5]

Sorry if the picture insulted you. I'll take it off.

didn't insult me, just didn't think it was appropriate, even when done in jest.

he says, responding to the post

there is always one person on every websiote that goes to the absurd and unrealistic forgetting that a response is required, though NOT one that addresses the point in the Op, but to other issues.

I wouldn’t say “it’s bad,” but I will say I wish the
translators would have translated better

i have read your 2 posts and my opinion is you do not grasp what translation is all about and you need to remember that God has not called you or any one else to retranslate His words. i am not a KJV only person but i do know that many words have many different meanings in all languages thus you may favor 'slave' over 'servant' but the correct usage and context would be 'servant'.

there is NOTHING WRONG with using 'commandments' over 'words' nothing is lost and both refer to the very same message, i think 'commandments' is a lot more powerful than the normal 'words' BUT either one keeps the message intact. i have seen this done for decades now, where people study a little greek, a little hebrew and they feel that they know more than the scholars who did the actual translation work while working with other scholars.

 

[Disciple]

I think that the greek and hebrew meant slightly different things when the bible was written.. King James is the version I read, the holy Spirit is very clear through it.

 

[charlesj]

didn't insult me, just didn't think it was appropriate, even when done in jest.



there is always one person on every websiote that goes to the absurd and unrealistic forgetting that a response is required, though NOT one that addresses the point in the Op, but to other issues.



i have read your 2 posts and my opinion is you do not grasp what translation is all about and you need to remember that God has not called you or any one else to retranslate His words. i am not a KJV only person but i do know that many words have many different meanings in all languages thus you may favor 'slave' over 'servant' but the correct usage and context would be 'servant'.

there is NOTHING WRONG with using 'commandments' over 'words' nothing is lost and both refer to the very same message, i think 'commandments' is a lot more powerful than the normal 'words' BUT either one keeps the message intact. i have seen this done for decades now, where people study a little greek, a little hebrew and they feel that they know more than the scholars who did the actual translation work while working with other scholars.

Hello archaeologist5:

Years ago (I forget how many) I went through my bible and wrote the Greek word doulos
in my bible wherever it was used. I felt
at that time “slave” was a better word. It’s not a real big issue with me, I just made
the comment and used it as an example of where I feel the KJV could have used a
better word.


John MacArthur wrote a fairly good article on “doulos.” (slave) http://www.christianpost.com/news/interview-john-macarthur-on-being-a-slave-for-christ-middle-east-unrest-49087/


As far as “commandments” over the use of “Words” you will have to argue with God as He is the one that used “Words.”


In the Hebrew the Holy Spirit used the Hebrew (for “word” and also in the Septuagint it is Decalogue (ten-words)).


Here is the translation of the KJV of Ex 34:28 “28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did
neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words (dabar) of the covenant, the ten commandments.(dabar)


Notice the translator translated “dabar” as word in one part of the sentence and then commandments in the latter part.


My point in saying “words” would have been better is when you use “commandment” it seems more
“harsh.” God’s Words are for “instruction, correction.” That is really the definition of Torah, that is, instructions.


When Moses was given the Torah on Mt. Sinai, the Jews, for years called them “instructions.” (Torah) As years went
on, they changed the name to “law.”


When Galatians was written you see “the law” (o’ nomos) in the KJV. Take a look at the Complete Jewish Bible version and you will see a big difference and maybe even
understand it different. The main thing is that we (you and I) want to see what is written the way the author intended it to be.


I have around 48 different bibles (Greek/Hebrew) that I use as resources if I need them when I study. I found that the scholars of these different
versions used different words than the KJV used at times. It would be wise to at least look at four different versions in context to get the idea of what the author originally
meant.


I’ve been studying the Lord’s Word for over forty one years. I don’t normally run around
telling everybody about “poor translations.” I only brought this up because there was a question about how you feel
about the KJV.

I hope we (you and I, us) can find truth and share it.



“…knowledge gained and not shared is knowledge
stolen.” Mark Davis, minister, 7/18/07


May the Lord be with us as we study His Word.


charlesj

 

[veteran]

No factual evidence at all that King James had a political agenda with his decree to give the English speaking people an English translation of God's Word. That his decree involved some political agenda sounds like a false doctrine planted by Judaizers and Communists who hate the idea of monarchy, especially that of Britain.

There is no such thing as a perfect translation from the original Biblical manuscripts, period. If ones argues the failings of one translation, that automatically includes all other translations.

And as far as Greek words translated as "world" in the New Testament, there are several different Greek words used. The only men I've seen complain of how the KJV translators translated them as world are those who go against the Biblical context where they appear, and they are actually the ones that create whole doctrines based on a single Greek word.

 

[tomwebster]

.... It would be wise to at least look at four different versions in context to get the idea of what the author originally
meant. ...

Why would I want to use "four different versions" when I can use the Hebrew and Greek?

 

[mjrhealth]

The only good version is the Jesus, Holy Spirit version of which there is no bok written. But then I suppose it depends on which version of God you want. I wonder if he comes on the MAC or is he WINDOWS only.

In His Love

 

[charlesj]

Why would I want to use "four different versions" when I can use the Hebrew and Greek?

Hi tomwebster:

I also use the Greek and Hebrew, but many can't. I suggest that they look at least four translations if they are doing a study on a particular subject/word.

I studied Greek at Texas Tech University while working on my EE degree. Also, I took Hebrew & Greek in Bible College.

May the Lord be with you,

charlesj

 

[archaeologist5]

I’ve been studying the Lord’s Word for over forty one years. I don’t normally run around

two things: 1. i hate it when people say things like this as they want to establish their own superiority over someone else's experience or make it seemlike they have the inside scoop when they do not have either. 2. you forget that the Holy Spirit was working in the lives of those translators inorder to fulfill God's promise to preserve His word for all people today. i am not saying the King James is the only translation but it is one of 3 we can use for sure.

so be careful with 'your study' because you do not have a monopoly on what God said.

King James wanted the people to obey him. His way of doing that was to translate certain parts of the bible to imply or order people to obey their kings or leaders.

totally wrong and please check your sources before using them.

I studied Greek at Texas Tech University

consider the source.

The only men I've seen complain of how the KJV translators translated them as world are those who go against the Biblical context where they appear, and they are actually the ones that create whole doctrines based on a single Greek word.

i agree with this. having compared translations before, i find that the KJV was not as far off as people say they were even though we may have more insight to the ancient languages today than they did back then BUT they were scholars who studied greek and hebrew a lot more thoroughly than most people do today.

to back up your point, the hebrew word 'yom' is a prime example.

The only good version is the Jesus, Holy Spirit version of which there is no bok written. But then I suppose it depends on which version of God you want. I wonder if he comes on the MAC or is he WINDOWS only.

In His Love

really??? so you through away God's word in print for what...direct revelation?

 

[RubberDuckey]

Hello Again Rubber Ducky:

I’m not sure of the “motive(s)” of why the 1611 KJV was
written. It was at this time, 1611, that they added a “J” to the
Greek Ἰησοῦς and
called Him “Jesus.” From what I’ve read,
the Germans did not call Him Jesus, but Gesus.

I’ve studied the Greek and the Hebrew. I can do fairly well in the Greek, but can’t say the same for the Hebrew. There
is no “J” in either Hebrew or Greek. So where did the “J” come from? My understanding is that it was first used in the 1611 KJV bible.

Before that time, for over
1500 years, Messiah was called by the Latin name, “Iesus.”

Most likely, His real name is Yahshua. Yah = God, Shua = saves.
Godsaves.

In my prayer life, I use the Name Yahshua or Yeshua to address the Lord. Jesus is a Gentile name. (The same with Jehovah, Jerusalem, John, etc. etc.)

You can also ask the question, why do we call the first half of our Bible the “Old Testament?” (Covenant). The first half of our bible from Genesis to Malachi was called “the scriptures” by the apostles and
Jesus. The actual “old covenant” is found in Exodus 34:27,28. The Jews called the first five books the Torah. The prophets they called the Nev’ium and the writings they called K’tuvim. The Jews took the first letter of Torah, Nev’ium and K’tuvim, added vowels, and
bingo, they got Tanakh. Therefore they call Genesis to Malachi “The Tanakh.” We call it the Old Testament.

While we are talking about the KJV, (and other translations) then another question comes up and you can ask
why do we call Torah (first five books of Moses) “the law?”

Also, when you get to Exodus 34:27ff or Deut 5:3ff you get what “we”
call the “ten commandments.” God never called them the “ten commandments.” He
called them the “ten Words.” In the Greek, it decalogue or decalogos. Deca = ten; logue or logos = words. (ten words.)



In the Hebrew, Ex 34:28, the Hebrew word “debar”
is translated commandment when it really means “words.” To translate debar as commandment I think is a
poor translation.

That’s my two cents.


May the Lord bless us as we study His Word. Remember, “the sum of His Word is Truth.” (Psalms 119:160)

charlesj

Everything you said was very informative! I do have two questions. How do you know Yashua is most likely Jesus' name and how do you pronounce that.

 

[archaeologist5]

the actual hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua.

 

[RubberDuckey]

I think that the greek and hebrew meant slightly different things when the bible was written.. King James is the version I read, the holy Spirit is very clear through it.

Regardless if the original languages meant slightly different things when the bible was written with them we can't just change it to suit are beliefs. We have to go with what we have and trust that God preserved the bible. Based off the original languages KJV is full of errors (this webpage gives many verses with errors http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/what-are-the-errors-in-king-james-version-bible.html).

 

[charlesj]

the actual hebrew word for Jesus is Joshua.

... archaeologist5, as I said in an earlier post, "...there is NO "J" in Koine Greek OR Hebrew." You didn't see the "J" ADDED to the Lord's name until later after the first century, around 1611 when the KJV was printed. The Gentiles call "Y[sup]e[/sup]hôwshûwaʿ, Joshua. The Gentile (translators) have added/changed his name from Yeshowshuwa to Joshua.

I am guessing the reason for the changes is to make it easier to pronounce and remember his name?? (I don't know for sure)


charlesj

 

[charlesj]

No factual evidence at all that King James had a political agenda with his decree to give the English speaking people an English translation of God's Word. That his decree involved some political agenda sounds like a false doctrine planted by Judaizers and Communists who hate the idea of monarchy, especially that of Britain.

There is no such thing as a perfect translation from the original Biblical manuscripts, period. If ones argues the failings of one translation, that automatically includes all other translations.

And as far as Greek words translated as "world" in the New Testament, there are several different Greek words used. The only men I've seen complain of how the KJV translators translated them as world are those who go against the Biblical context where they appear, and they are actually the ones that create whole doctrines based on a single Greek word.

Hey Vet:

What Greek word is used in Matthew 24:3 and is translated "world'? This is what I spoke about when I mentioned the two Greek words.... We all know that there are two Greeks words translated "world" and that's WAS MY POINT. "KOSMOS is world and aion is age', but aion is NOT "world and age." Kosmos is "world" and "aion" is age. So what do you see used in Matthew 24? CASE CLOSED!!

charlesj

 

[archaeologist5]

... archaeologist5, as I said in an earlier post, "...there is NO "J" in Koine Greek OR Hebrew." You didn't see the "J" ADDED to the Lord's name until later after the first century, around 1611 when the KJV was printed. The Gentiles call "Y[sup]e[/sup]hôwshûwaʿ, Joshua. The Gentile (translators) have added/changed his name from Yeshowshuwa to Joshua.

I am guessing the reason for the changes is to make it easier to pronounce and remember his name?? (I don't know for sure)


charlesj

#1 i have studied greek and know about it.
#2. you know little about how translation works.
#3. your opinion doesn't matter nor count for the last time I checked God did not raise you up to change His word. there is nothing wrong with the way the KJV translates Jesus, Joshua or Jerusalem.