Knowledge.

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Johann

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The Messiah Knows
YHWH’s Anointed One (Messiah) would certainly be our best teacher for seeking and knowing God, because He was one with God:

John 14:6-7

Jesus said to him [Thomas], “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Yeshua (Jesus) reflected the Old Testament emphasis on knowing and seeing. The disciples saw and knew Yeshua, so they saw and knew YHWH.

The Tanakh (Old Testament) was filled with Messianic prophecy. Of the coming Messiah, Isaiah said this:

Isaiah 11:1-9

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch from his roots will bear fruit. The Spirit of YHWH will rest on Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge [ruakh da’at] and the fear of YHWH.

And He will delight in the fear of YHWH, and He will not judge by what His eyes see, nor make decisions by what His ears hear; nut with righteousness He will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the humble of the earth; and He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. Also righteousness will be the belt around His hips, and faithfulness the belt around His waist.

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fattened steer will be together; and a little boy will lead them.

Also the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of YHWH [de’a et YHWH] as the waters cover the sea.

A child, from the line of Jesse, would conquer death (the sting of a snake) bring complete peace, and from this the entire world would fully know God.

Isaiah also expressed that by the Messiah would be a sacrifice, knowingly taking on our sins upon Himself:

Isaiah 53:10-11

But YHWH was pleased to crush Him [Messiah], putting Him to grief. If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied. By His knowledge [b-da’tow] the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities.

Knowledge sometimes comes at a price. Perhaps we should be grateful that we don’t know all that is to come. Jesus knew. He knew everything that would happen to him… and it was costly.

John 13:1

It was now just before the Passover Feast, and Jesus knew [Greek: eidos] that His hour had come to leave this world and return to the Father. Having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the very end.

Jesus (Yeshua), knew He had to leave the world behind. His career on this planet as a teacher in situ was finished. He had taught all He needed to… and, wonderfully, we have access to those teachings. One of those teachings focused in on the importance of knowledge. Quoting Isaiah 6:9-10 Yeshua explained why he talked in parables:

Matthew 13:10-17

Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge [Greek: gnonai] of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and return and be healed.’

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Let us not be the person whom Yeshua was speaking of. Let us not be the person who hears a sermon but doesn’t draw it in, who sees the beauty of God’s handiwork but gives it no attention, who hardens their heart to the teachings of God and throws up walls to block God’s voice. Let us not be blind or deaf or imprisoned to the gifts we have been given.

Listen, Seek, Discover!
Here’s the thing… God wants us to listen for His voice, seek and discover Him. More than any gift we could give Him, He wants us to really know Him. It is what God delights in:

Hosea 6:6

[YHWH:] For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God [w-da’at Elohim] rather than burnt offerings.

The Proverbs highlighted that our whole body should be focused on knowing God… our ear, our heart, our voice, our whole soul:

Proverbs 2:2-10

Make your ear attentive to wisdom, incline your heart to understanding; for if you cry for discernment, lift your voice for understanding.

If you seek her as silver and search for her as for hidden treasures; then you will discern the fear of YHWH and discover the knowledge of God [w-da’at Elohim].

For YHWH gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge [da’at] and understanding.

He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, guarding the paths of justice, and He preserves the way of His godly ones.

Then you will discern righteousness and justice and equity and every good course. For wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge [w-da’at] will be pleasant to your soul.

Here is what Paul hoped for:

Colossians 2:2-3

…that they may be encouraged in heart, knit together in love, and filled with the full riches of complete understanding, so that they may know [Greek: epi-gnosin] the mystery of God, namely the Messiah, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge [Greek: gnoseos].

This, also, is my hope for you!
 

Johann

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The Messiah Knows
YHWH’s Anointed One (Messiah) would certainly be our best teacher for seeking and knowing God, because He was one with God:

John 14:6-7

Jesus said to him [Thomas], “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Yeshua (Jesus) reflected the Old Testament emphasis on knowing and seeing. The disciples saw and knew Yeshua, so they saw and knew YHWH.

The Tanakh (Old Testament) was filled with Messianic prophecy. Of the coming Messiah, Isaiah said this:

Isaiah 11:1-9

Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch from his roots will bear fruit. The Spirit of YHWH will rest on Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and strength, the spirit of knowledge [ruakh da’at] and the fear of YHWH.

And He will delight in the fear of YHWH, and He will not judge by what His eyes see, nor make decisions by what His ears hear; nut with righteousness He will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the humble of the earth; and He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked. Also righteousness will be the belt around His hips, and faithfulness the belt around His waist.

And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fattened steer will be together; and a little boy will lead them.

Also the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of YHWH [de’a et YHWH] as the waters cover the sea.

A child, from the line of Jesse, would conquer death (the sting of a snake) bring complete peace, and from this the entire world would fully know God.

Isaiah also expressed that by the Messiah would be a sacrifice, knowingly taking on our sins upon Himself:

Isaiah 53:10-11

But YHWH was pleased to crush Him [Messiah], putting Him to grief. If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied. By His knowledge [b-da’tow] the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities.

Knowledge sometimes comes at a price. Perhaps we should be grateful that we don’t know all that is to come. Jesus knew. He knew everything that would happen to him… and it was costly.

John 13:1

It was now just before the Passover Feast, and Jesus knew [Greek: eidos] that His hour had come to leave this world and return to the Father. Having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the very end.

Jesus (Yeshua), knew He had to leave the world behind. His career on this planet as a teacher in situ was finished. He had taught all He needed to… and, wonderfully, we have access to those teachings. One of those teachings focused in on the importance of knowledge. Quoting Isaiah 6:9-10 Yeshua explained why he talked in parables:

Matthew 13:10-17

Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

He replied, “The knowledge [Greek: gnonai] of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and return and be healed.’

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Let us not be the person whom Yeshua was speaking of. Let us not be the person who hears a sermon but doesn’t draw it in, who sees the beauty of God’s handiwork but gives it no attention, who hardens their heart to the teachings of God and throws up walls to block God’s voice. Let us not be blind or deaf or imprisoned to the gifts we have been given.

Listen, Seek, Discover!
Here’s the thing… God wants us to listen for His voice, seek and discover Him. More than any gift we could give Him, He wants us to really know Him. It is what God delights in:

Hosea 6:6

[YHWH:] For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, and in the knowledge of God [w-da’at Elohim] rather than burnt offerings.

The Proverbs highlighted that our whole body should be focused on knowing God… our ear, our heart, our voice, our whole soul:

Proverbs 2:2-10

Make your ear attentive to wisdom, incline your heart to understanding; for if you cry for discernment, lift your voice for understanding.

If you seek her as silver and search for her as for hidden treasures; then you will discern the fear of YHWH and discover the knowledge of God [w-da’at Elohim].

For YHWH gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge [da’at] and understanding.

He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity, guarding the paths of justice, and He preserves the way of His godly ones.

Then you will discern righteousness and justice and equity and every good course. For wisdom will enter your heart and knowledge [w-da’at] will be pleasant to your soul.

Here is what Paul hoped for:

Colossians 2:2-3

…that they may be encouraged in heart, knit together in love, and filled with the full riches of complete understanding, so that they may know [Greek: epi-gnosin] the mystery of God, namely the Messiah, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge [Greek: gnoseos].

This, also, is my hope for you!
 

MatthewG

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Hello Johann,

Just a helpful suggestion, whatever scripture you have up there it would be useful to put quotations around each one of them. It will make the post a bit more readable, than simple black and white. And let your comments ride down below it.

Thank you for posting and sharing,
Matthew
 
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Johann

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Hello Johann,

Just a helpful suggestion, whatever scripture you have up there it would be useful to put quotations around each one of them. It will make the post a bit more readable, than simple black and white. And let your comments ride down below it.

Thank you for posting and sharing,
Matthew
Dear brother, how about me highlighting the scripture quotations?

I don't post frequently on this forum anymore, I used to, like a bull in a China shop, but not so now.

This is my first post on knowledge since my suspension.


A link, if you are interested Matthew.

Shalom
Johann
 

Nancy

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"Knowledge sometimes comes at a price. Perhaps we should be grateful that we don’t know all that is to come. Jesus knew. He knew everything that would happen to him… and it was costly."

As some say, "Ignorance is bliss" Lol...not in this case, for sure.


"Let us not be the person whom Yeshua was speaking of. Let us not be the person who hears a sermon but doesn’t draw it in, who sees the beauty of God’s handiwork but gives it no attention, who hardens their heart to the teachings of God and throws up walls to block God’s voice. Let us not be blind or deaf or imprisoned to the gifts we have been given."


Back when I was going to services in a local Assembly's of God church, I would be hard pressed to remember what the sermon was about shortly after. But even so, the Wednesday night bible studies have stuck with me since then, and that was 30 years ago! Perhaps the pastor there was not speaking from the Spirit and the guy did the studies was. He was quite good IMHO...he has long passed on sadly.

How can one not see intelligent design in even the smallest of His every creation! It is so easy to see IMHO :) Even NOW we can see, under strong microscopes the things that He made with "things unseen"...atoms, molicules, elements...nothing was made..."

The hard part to myself is NOT being able to hear His voice well and even then, it's vague. But, I do know right from wrong Amen.

Good word Johann!
 

Johann

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"Knowledge sometimes comes at a price. Perhaps we should be grateful that we don’t know all that is to come. Jesus knew. He knew everything that would happen to him… and it was costly."

As some say, "Ignorance is bliss" Lol...not in this case, for sure.


"Let us not be the person whom Yeshua was speaking of. Let us not be the person who hears a sermon but doesn’t draw it in, who sees the beauty of God’s handiwork but gives it no attention, who hardens their heart to the teachings of God and throws up walls to block God’s voice. Let us not be blind or deaf or imprisoned to the gifts we have been given."


Back when I was going to services in a local Assembly's of God church, I would be hard pressed to remember what the sermon was about shortly after. But even so, the Wednesday night bible studies have stuck with me since then, and that was 30 years ago! Perhaps the pastor there was not speaking from the Spirit and the guy did the studies was. He was quite good IMHO...he has long passed on sadly.

How can one not see intelligent design in even the smallest of His every creation! It is so easy to see IMHO :) Even NOW we can see, under strong microscopes the things that He made with "things unseen"...atoms, molicules, elements...nothing was made..."

The hard part to myself is NOT being able to hear His voice well and even then, it's vague. But, I do know right from wrong Amen.

Good word Johann!
I have a battle "hearing" the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit and His presence.

1Ki 19:9 There he came to a cave and lodged in it; and behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and He said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah?

1Ki 19:10 He replied, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts; for the Israelites have forsaken Your covenant, thrown down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I, I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

1Ki 19:11 And He said, Go out and stand on the mount before the Lord. And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake;

1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire [a sound of gentle stillness and] a still, small voice.

1Ki 19:13 When Elijah heard the voice, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. And behold, there came a voice to him and said, What are you doing here, Elijah?
AMP

The still, small voice....what are you doing here....

Strangely "still"

Shalom Nancy.
J.
 

stunnedbygrace

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My apologies then. I thought you were hinting To Johann by your answer that maybe the volume of words he posted prevented hearing God. I am accustomed to you entering a thread with a little dig at someone so I assumed you were a grumpy man. :)
 
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quietthinker

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My apologies then. I thought you were hinting To Johann by your answer that maybe the volume of words he posted prevented hearing God. I am accustomed to you entering a thread with a little dig at someone so I assumed you were a grumpy man. :)
:) shooting straight does have a tendency to get peoples ire, just ask the Prophets ....although I don't consider myself in that category.
In all my shooting there is no intention to cut people off at the knees however it may be perceived......and thanks for your apology....however I wasn't offended, just surprised. :)
 
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stunnedbygrace

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:) shooting straight does have a tendency to get peoples ire, just ask the Prophets ....although I don't consider myself in that category.
In all my shooting there is no intention to cut people off at the knees however it may be perceived......and thanks for your apology....however I wasn't offended, just surprised. :)
Were you shooting straight with Johann? And by the way, you did not get my ire. I was not angry. My perception was that you were speaking indirectly and hinting that he might be preventing the hearing of God by posting too many words and speaking to much. My perception was that you worded it indirectly because you didn’t think your personal opinion that he is too verbose would be well received? As I said, if that kind of subtlety and guile was not at all what you were employing, then I sincerely apologize. But you did hint above that the post in question was an example of your straight shooting. I perceived it to be crooked and indirect shooting.

I realize this will seem picky to some but we need to leave behind the way we were taught to speak to each other by our parents and the world and speak directly or we will never move into any unity.

By the way, I do realize that it got confusing when Johann retyped Nancy’s words rather than using a quote box and then you quoted Johanns post of Nancy’s words, making it appear as if what Nancy said was what Johann said. That kind of confusion can be cleared up by hitting the reply button and breaking up the post of another but I think maybe some people don’t know how to do that because of how difficult it used to be for some of us old folks. It’s extremely easy in the new design of the site - hit reply button, their post is now quoted, go into the quote box and place and click your cursor at the end of the sentence you want to address, hit return. This breaks up their post so you can respond to just a sentence or piece of a persons post.
 

quietthinker

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I really don't know what your purpose here is.
It's definitely not to endlessly argue/debate the various conflicting points of view of which there are plenty.
It is possible to post one's position succinctly without going into a proof texting dissertation.
If folk enquire, well and good, but we see very little of that. What I mostly see is resistance, polarisation and hunkering down......hardly anything constructive. I get the feeling egos are flattered by posting perceived academic acumen. It's a long cry from the humble Nazarene.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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It's definitely not to endlessly argue/debate the various conflicting points of view of which there are plenty.
It is possible to post one's position succinctly without going into a proof texting dissertation.
If folk enquire, well and good, but we see very little of that. What I mostly see is resistance, polarisation and hunkering down......hardly anything constructive. I get the feeling egos are flattered by posting perceived academic acumen. It's a long cry from the humble Nazarene.
That is quite odious. But at least you came from behind the mask and are straight shooting at the man now.
You have now openly given your opinion of him. You still can’t see yourself but at least youve improved by setting aside guile.
 
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quietthinker

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That is quite odious. But at least you came from behind the mask and are straight shooting at the man now.
You have now openly given your opinion of the man. You still can’t see yourself but at least youve improved in setting aside guile.
Do you suppose Jesus' parable of the vineyard and the unfaithful tenants qualifies as crooked shooting?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Do you suppose Jesus' parable of the vineyard and the unfaithful tenants qualifies as crooked shooting?
We aren’t going this direction, you and I.
Do you have anything To add to what the man wanted to talk about when he began his thread? Or did you just want to give your opinion of the man?
 
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quietthinker

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We aren’t going this direction, you and I.
Do you have anything To add to what the man wanted to talk about when he began his thread? Or did you just want to give your opinion of the man?
There are so many facets to the topic of knowledge and it is possible to turn into it a head trip.
I see you've taken offence at my comments on some level .....I'm sorry for that.
 
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