Law Liquidated

[Netchaplain]

If righteousness (Gal 2:21) and redemption came by the Law then only Jews could ever be saved, for Gentiles were never under it prior to its annulling (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9). Until all the Law would be “fulfilled” it could not “pass” (Mat 5:18), thus its passing came when Christ fulfilled, or, finished it (Rom 10:4). Remember, it is Christ’s words that “shall not pass away” (Mat 24:35), not the Mosaic Law!

In this article it makes a point that since the Law did not require one’s death for obedience, then “why did Christ die?” Thus it was His expiation for sin (after His obedience to the Law manifested His qualification for sacrifice which required a perfect subject), which voids the curse, and not His supposedly imputed Law-obedience to the believer. The Lord Jesus has always been righteous by virtue of His deity and sinless state (which His Law-obedience manifested), and it is this righteousness which is imputed to the believer!

Those who were under the Law were “under the curse” (Gal 3:10), for it manifested souls to be “ungodly” (1 Ti 1:9), thus the Law could only direct toward deliverance, not effect it (Gal 3:24, 24), because the Law was “not of faith” (Gal 3:12) but of works. Hence we enter in, not on the works of man but on the works of the Lord Jesus Christ! Besides, the obedience of the Law required not just the outward working which anyone could have done—but also the accompaniment of a sinless soul by the Doer.
NC

Law Liquidated​

“Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes” (Rom 10:4).

When the Lord Jesus died on the Cross, He bore for Israel the curse of the Law, for they alone were under the Law. Divine Law, being broken, does not ask for future good conduct on the part of the offender, but for his death, and that only. Now Christ having died, all the claims of the Law against that nation which had been placed under the law were completely met and ended. So that even Jews could now believe, and say, “I am dead to the Law!”

To him that believeth, therefore, Jew or Gentile, Christ dead, buried, risen and ascended is the end of the Law for righteousness—in the sense of Law’s disappearance from the scene! Law does not know, or take cognizance of believers. We read in Romans 7:6 that those who had been under the Law were discharged from the Law, brought to naught, put out of business (katargeo), with respect to the Law. The Law has nothing to do with them, as regards to righteousness.

The words “Christ is the end of the Law” cannot mean He is the fulfillment of what the Law required. The Law required obedience to precepts—or death for disobedience. Now Christ died! If it be answered, that before He died He fulfilled the claims of the Law, kept it perfectly, and that this law-keeping of His was reckoned as over against the Israel’s breaking of the Law, then I ask, “Why should Christ die (since death is not required in the case of obedience—NC)? If the claims of the Law were met in His earthly obedience, and if that earthly life of obedience is “reckoned to those who believe,” and the curse of the Law has been removed by His “vicarious law-keeping,” Why then, should Christ die?

Now this idea of Christ keeping the Law for “us” (for they will include us among the Israelites, even though the Law was not given to Gentiles), is a deadly heresy, no matter who teaches it. Paul tells us plainly how the curse of the Law was removed: “Christ redeemed us (meaning the Jewish believers) from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us” (Gal 3:13). It was on the Cross, and not by an earthly life of obedience that Christ bore the Law’s curse!

There was no law given “which could make alive,” Paul says; “otherwise righteousness would have been by it” (Gal 3:21). Therefore those who speak of Christ, as taking the place of fulfilling the Law for us—as “the object at which the Law aimed” (Alford); or, “the fulfillment or accomplishment of the Law” (Calvin); give the Law an office that God did not give it. There is not in all Scripture a hint of the doctrine that Christ’s earthly life—His obedience as a man under the Law—is “put to the account” of any sinner whatsoever! That obedience which was perfect, was in order that He could “present Himself through the eternal Spirit without spot unto God” (Heb 9:14) as a sin-offering. It was also in order to His sacrificial death, as “a curse” for Israel (and for us believing Gentiles who were under the curse of “the law of sin“, which was incurred unto the whole world - Gen 2:17—NC).

It is because Reformed theology (though well intended—NC) has kept us Gentiles under the Law, if not as a means of righteousness, then as “a rule of life,” that all the trouble has arisen (legalism, which was always Paul’s greatest opposition to the doctrine of grace—NC). The Law is no more a rule of life than it is a means of righteousness. Walking in the Spirit has now taken the place of walking by ordinances. God has another principle under which He has positioned His saints: “You are not under law, but under grace” (Rom 6:14). “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).

- Wm R Newell



Excerpt from MJS devotional for July 11:
“If and when the trial comes, you will find Him waiting there.” - MJS

“We should always be prepared for circumstances that will arise, and for blessings that are to come, without foreseeing what these circumstances and blessings will be. This preparation consists in attention to present responsibility, and acceptance of present discipline.

“If day by day we first seek divine direction, and then follow it, we shall be ready, when new circumstances arise, for the new blessings which will be offered. Today should be preparation for tomorrow. The only proof that we shall be equal to tomorrow’s test is that we are meeting today’s test believingly and courageously. The only evidence that we shall be willing for God’s will tomorrow is that we are subject to His will today.” -W.G.S.

 

[Sword]

Were always quoting other mens books. Its like Gods book is not enough. Some say oh well I tried and dont understand. God says you dont have because you dont ask. Simple really God wants a personal relationship with you. And that means you going to the secret place to spend TIME with Him. You would wait for your pop idle queen king hollywood stars all day long. But not for God. and this includes me.

 

[H. Richard]

If righteousness (Gal 2:21) and redemption came by the Law then only Jews could ever be saved, for Gentiles were never under it prior to its annulling (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9). Until all the Law would be “fulfilled” it could not “pass” (Mat 5:18), thus its passing came when Christ fulfilled, or, finished it (Rom 10:4). Remember, it is Christ’s words that “shall not pass away” (Mat 24:35), not the Mosaic Law!

In this article it makes a point that since the Law did not require one’s death for obedience, then “why did Christ die?” Thus it was His expiation for sin (after His obedience to the Law manifested His qualification for sacrifice which required a perfect subject), which voids the curse, and not His supposedly imputed Law-obedience to the believer. The Lord Jesus has always been righteous by virtue of His deity and sinless state (which His Law-obedience manifested), and it is this righteousness which is imputed to the believer!

Those who were under the Law were “under the curse” (Gal 3:10), for it manifested souls to be “ungodly” (1 Ti 1:9), thus the Law could only direct toward deliverance, not effect it (Gal 3:24, 24), because the Law was “not of faith” (Gal 3:12) but of works. Hence we enter in, not on the works of man but on the works of the Lord Jesus Christ! Besides, the obedience of the Law required not just the outward working which anyone could have done—but also the accompaniment of a sinless soul by the Doer.
NC

Law Liquidated​

“Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes” (Rom 10:4).

When the Lord Jesus died on the Cross, He bore for Israel the curse of the Law, for they alone were under the Law. Divine Law, being broken, does not ask for future good conduct on the part of the offender, but for his death, and that only. Now Christ having died, all the claims of the Law against that nation which had been placed under the law were completely met and ended. So that even Jews could now believe, and say, “I am dead to the Law!”

To him that believeth, therefore, Jew or Gentile, Christ dead, buried, risen and ascended is the end of the Law for righteousness—in the sense of Law’s disappearance from the scene! Law does not know, or take cognizance of believers. We read in Romans 7:6 that those who had been under the Law were discharged from the Law, brought to naught, put out of business (katargeo), with respect to the Law. The Law has nothing to do with them, as regards to righteousness.

The words “Christ is the end of the Law” cannot mean He is the fulfillment of what the Law required. The Law required obedience to precepts—or death for disobedience. Now Christ died! If it be answered, that before He died He fulfilled the claims of the Law, kept it perfectly, and that this law-keeping of His was reckoned as over against the Israel’s breaking of the Law, then I ask, “Why should Christ die (since death is not required in the case of obedience—NC)? If the claims of the Law were met in His earthly obedience, and if that earthly life of obedience is “reckoned to those who believe,” and the curse of the Law has been removed by His “vicarious law-keeping,” Why then, should Christ die?

Now this idea of Christ keeping the Law for “us” (for they will include us among the Israelites, even though the Law was not given to Gentiles), is a deadly heresy, no matter who teaches it. Paul tells us plainly how the curse of the Law was removed: “Christ redeemed us (meaning the Jewish believers) from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us” (Gal 3:13). It was on the Cross, and not by an earthly life of obedience that Christ bore the Law’s curse!

There was no law given “which could make alive,” Paul says; “otherwise righteousness would have been by it” (Gal 3:21). Therefore those who speak of Christ, as taking the place of fulfilling the Law for us—as “the object at which the Law aimed” (Alford); or, “the fulfillment or accomplishment of the Law” (Calvin); give the Law an office that God did not give it. There is not in all Scripture a hint of the doctrine that Christ’s earthly life—His obedience as a man under the Law—is “put to the account” of any sinner whatsoever! That obedience which was perfect, was in order that He could “present Himself through the eternal Spirit without spot unto God” (Heb 9:14) as a sin-offering. It was also in order to His sacrificial death, as “a curse” for Israel (and for us believing Gentiles who were under the curse of “the law of sin“, which was incurred unto the whole world - Gen 2:17—NC).

It is because Reformed theology (though well intended—NC) has kept us Gentiles under the Law, if not as a means of righteousness, then as “a rule of life,” that all the trouble has arisen (legalism, which was always Paul’s greatest opposition to the doctrine of grace—NC). The Law is no more a rule of life than it is a means of righteousness. Walking in the Spirit has now taken the place of walking by ordinances. God has another principle under which He has positioned His saints: “You are not under law, but under grace” (Rom 6:14). “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).

- Wm R Newell



Excerpt from MJS devotional for July 11:
“If and when the trial comes, you will find Him waiting there.” - MJS

“We should always be prepared for circumstances that will arise, and for blessings that are to come, without foreseeing what these circumstances and blessings will be. This preparation consists in attention to present responsibility, and acceptance of present discipline.

“If day by day we first seek divine direction, and then follow it, we shall be ready, when new circumstances arise, for the new blessings which will be offered. Today should be preparation for tomorrow. The only proof that we shall be equal to tomorrow’s test is that we are meeting today’s test believingly and courageously. The only evidence that we shall be willing for God’s will tomorrow is that we are subject to His will today.” -W.G.S.

***
Well done.

 

[101G]

Law Liquidated?.
GINOLJC, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine". well that kinda got all here on this board.

God is a fair and Righteous Judge. Romans 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?.

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law".

Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel".

 

[liafailrock]

I get the feeling this is going to be a long thread. As I always say, the standards of the Law are not done away with, and a person who is truly righteous will live in those standards because that's his nature (only Christ did that). The Law describes righteous character. The issue is with the punishment, which was earthly in nature, the ultimate being death and thus extinction. Christ took the penalty by dying in our stead. So don't confuse paying the penalty with eradicating the Law. Just because I went thru a stop sign and Jesus paid my ticket does not mean that I can freely go thru more nor does it mean that the police took all the stop signs away-- they are there for safety and a safe driver will obey them. I like the SDA take on the Law i.e. moral and ceremonial. The latter were depiction and shadows of things to come, fulfilled in Christ. So no, we don't have to sacrifice any longer. We do have to obey "do not commit adultery" or any of the other commandments (moral obligations). If we sin, we are forgiven 70 times 7 (Daniel 9:24). And as I stated in another thread, for those Christians who like to keep the commandments, perhaps the Sabbath, they should not be judged as "legalists". I have yet to come across any thread where a Law-keeping Christian actually believes keeping the Law saves them, so spare them the verses about nobody will be considered righteous by keeping the Law. They are not saying that. If everyone read my post thoroughly, it would stop debate in its tracks right here, but for some reason neither side is seeing past their own view.

 

[Netchaplain]

Appreciate everyone's reply! I want to indicate that the primary issue with the article is that Jesus did not impute to us righteousness from the Law but only the righteousness which of Himself, which is not from the Law.

 

[Netchaplain]

***
Well done.

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Copperhead]

In Romans, you have the Law of Moses, Law of sin and death, the Law of the spirit, Law of the mind, Law of righteousness, and Jesus Himself stated Matthew 5:18 (NKJV) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Best I can tell, all has not been fulfilled.

The point was always that we are not saved by the works of keeping the Law, but of our belief and trust in the one the Law was pointing to... the Messiah. That doesn't mean the standards expressed in the Law are null and void.

 

[H. Richard]

In Romans, you have the Law of Moses, Law of sin and death, the Law of the spirit, Law of the mind, Law of righteousness, and Jesus Himself stated Matthew 5:18 (NKJV) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Best I can tell, all has not been fulfilled.

The point was always that we are not saved by the works of keeping the Law, but of our belief and trust in the one the Law was pointing to... the Messiah. That doesn't mean the standards expressed in the Law are null and void.

***
The law has not been done away with. It has been set aside while grace is the gospel. The law will judge those who who have rejected Jesus' offer of grace through His work on the cross.

 

[Copperhead]

Not sure "The Law" has been set aside. One of the aspects of the Mosaic Law was to show us what sin actually is. And we are free, in Messiah, from the Law of Sin and Death, as it was nailed to the cross with Jesus, for those that place their trust in Him. And we have the Law of the Spirit living in us.

And seeing Jesus in the Mosaic Law is one aspect of that.

Example. The Law regarding the cities of refuge. If a person is guilty of unintentional murder, or manslaughter, he can flee to a city of refuge and remain there, protected from retribution by a kinsman of the person killed. He needs to remain there till the death of the High Priest, and then he can go free and the kinsman has no legal grounds to seek retribution any longer.

We are all guilty of the death of Jesus. But He stated from the cross, "forgive them for they know not what they do". So Jesus declared our guilt of His death as unintentional manslaughter. So to be protected from the punishment of this crime, we need to flee to the city of refuge, which is Jesus Himself, and we are safe from punishment as long as the High Priest, Jesus, remains alive.

What a beautiful picture the Law gave us in showing the Messiah!

So many people view "the Law" in a negative light. I am sure they have a hard time understanding how King David could extoll the virtues of the Law and proclaim his love for God's Law. But when we see Jesus in the Law, it becomes a kaleidoscope of color revealing the Messiah! Given the Psalms that David wrote, I gather he saw the Messiah throughout The Law.

 

[Netchaplain]

In Romans, you have the Law of Moses, Law of sin and death, the Law of the spirit, Law of the mind, Law of righteousness, and Jesus Himself stated Matthew 5:18 (NKJV) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Best I can tell, all has not been fulfilled.

Hi CH, and appreciate your reply! The sum of the Law was Christ effecting redemption (rebirth), which I believe was fulfilled when He said "It is finished." Hence the Law being removed to make way for the New Covenant (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9).

Blessings!

 

[pia]

Hi CH, and appreciate your reply! The sum of the Law was Christ effecting redemption (rebirth), which I believe was fulfilled when He said "It is finished." Hence the Law being removed to make way for the New Covenant (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9).

Blessings!

The law is no longer an issue, with those who believe in Christ, and was nailed to the cross, but it is still there as His chosen people have rejected Him for the time being, thus the law still stands for them and Christians who put themselves under the law, thereby making Christs sacrifice for them of no effect ( a tragic place to put oneself. ) Just BE like a little child accepting a huge present with wide open arms and heart ( a child won't stand there and look at you suspiciously or demand to know why it's such a big present or how can that be for free? A child just accepts with a huge grin and sometimes with a thank you ). Accept His sacrifice, His forgiveness and His never ending Grace. BE saved BY HIM, don't keep trying to get yourself perfected enough to GET saved, that is an exercise in futility, along with many other things that various churches would have us believe is necessary, for us to be good enough for Him to want to save us. Have a blessed day in His glorious Love Pia

 

[pia]

Not sure "The Law" has been set aside. One of the aspects of the Mosaic Law was to show us what sin actually is. And we are free, in Messiah, from the Law of Sin and Death, as it was nailed to the cross with Jesus, for those that place their trust in Him. And we have the Law of the Spirit living in us.

And seeing Jesus in the Mosaic Law is one aspect of that.

Example. The Law regarding the cities of refuge. If a person is guilty of unintentional murder, or manslaughter, he can flee to a city of refuge and remain there, protected from retribution by a kinsman of the person killed. He needs to remain there till the death of the High Priest, and then he can go free and the kinsman has no legal grounds to seek retribution any longer.

We are all guilty of the death of Jesus. But He stated from the cross, "forgive them for they know not what they do". So Jesus declared our guilt of His death as unintentional manslaughter. So to be protected from the punishment of this crime, we need to flee to the city of refuge, which is Jesus Himself, and we are safe from punishment as long as the High Priest, Jesus, remains alive.

What a beautiful picture the Law gave us in showing the Messiah!

So many people view "the Law" in a negative light. I am sure they have a hard time understanding how King David could extoll the virtues of the Law and proclaim his love for God's Law. But when we see Jesus in the Law, it becomes a kaleidoscope of color revealing the Messiah! Given the Psalms that David wrote, I gather he saw the Messiah throughout The Law.

Hello 'Copperhead " Lovely to meet you...........You are certainly right there, the Law is perfection itself, just read the ten commandments and think ! If we all did exactly as the law states, we would have a perfect world. So, the Law is perfect, but we are not. So it became necessary ( as our Father knew before the beginning ) for Him to do it Himself in the form of human flesh, on all of our behalves . As it stated :" The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world." He sent His Word to become a man ( Jesus ), and at 30 years old, when Jesus turned up to be baptized , we are told that for the first time our Father utters these words :" This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased.", and remember, this was before Jesus conquered the devils temptations in the wilderness. Until then Jesus was a child of men and a child of God, but to be made a Son, now that's different, and I would recommend you ask His help and study it out. Thank you for your post..........Loving blessings in Him Pia

 

[Wild Olive]

If righteousness (Gal 2:21) and redemption came by the Law then only Jews could ever be saved, for Gentiles were never under it prior to its annulling (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9). Until all the Law would be “fulfilled” it could not “pass” (Mat 5:18), thus its passing came when Christ fulfilled, or, finished it (Rom 10:4). Remember, it is Christ’s words that “shall not pass away” (Mat 24:35), not the Mosaic Law!

In this article it makes a point that since the Law did not require one’s death for obedience, then “why did Christ die?” Thus it was His expiation for sin (after His obedience to the Law manifested His qualification for sacrifice which required a perfect subject), which voids the curse, and not His supposedly imputed Law-obedience to the believer. The Lord Jesus has always been righteous by virtue of His deity and sinless state (which His Law-obedience manifested), and it is this righteousness which is imputed to the believer!

Those who were under the Law were “under the curse” (Gal 3:10), for it manifested souls to be “ungodly” (1 Ti 1:9), thus the Law could only direct toward deliverance, not effect it (Gal 3:24, 24), because the Law was “not of faith” (Gal 3:12) but of works. Hence we enter in, not on the works of man but on the works of the Lord Jesus Christ! Besides, the obedience of the Law required not just the outward working which anyone could have done—but also the accompaniment of a sinless soul by the Doer.
NC

Law Liquidated​

“Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes” (Rom 10:4).

When the Lord Jesus died on the Cross, He bore for Israel the curse of the Law, for they alone were under the Law. Divine Law, being broken, does not ask for future good conduct on the part of the offender, but for his death, and that only. Now Christ having died, all the claims of the Law against that nation which had been placed under the law were completely met and ended. So that even Jews could now believe, and say, “I am dead to the Law!”

To him that believeth, therefore, Jew or Gentile, Christ dead, buried, risen and ascended is the end of the Law for righteousness—in the sense of Law’s disappearance from the scene! Law does not know, or take cognizance of believers. We read in Romans 7:6 that those who had been under the Law were discharged from the Law, brought to naught, put out of business (katargeo), with respect to the Law. The Law has nothing to do with them, as regards to righteousness.

The words “Christ is the end of the Law” cannot mean He is the fulfillment of what the Law required. The Law required obedience to precepts—or death for disobedience. Now Christ died! If it be answered, that before He died He fulfilled the claims of the Law, kept it perfectly, and that this law-keeping of His was reckoned as over against the Israel’s breaking of the Law, then I ask, “Why should Christ die (since death is not required in the case of obedience—NC)? If the claims of the Law were met in His earthly obedience, and if that earthly life of obedience is “reckoned to those who believe,” and the curse of the Law has been removed by His “vicarious law-keeping,” Why then, should Christ die?

Now this idea of Christ keeping the Law for “us” (for they will include us among the Israelites, even though the Law was not given to Gentiles), is a deadly heresy, no matter who teaches it. Paul tells us plainly how the curse of the Law was removed: “Christ redeemed us (meaning the Jewish believers) from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us” (Gal 3:13). It was on the Cross, and not by an earthly life of obedience that Christ bore the Law’s curse!

There was no law given “which could make alive,” Paul says; “otherwise righteousness would have been by it” (Gal 3:21). Therefore those who speak of Christ, as taking the place of fulfilling the Law for us—as “the object at which the Law aimed” (Alford); or, “the fulfillment or accomplishment of the Law” (Calvin); give the Law an office that God did not give it. There is not in all Scripture a hint of the doctrine that Christ’s earthly life—His obedience as a man under the Law—is “put to the account” of any sinner whatsoever! That obedience which was perfect, was in order that He could “present Himself through the eternal Spirit without spot unto God” (Heb 9:14) as a sin-offering. It was also in order to His sacrificial death, as “a curse” for Israel (and for us believing Gentiles who were under the curse of “the law of sin“, which was incurred unto the whole world - Gen 2:17—NC).

It is because Reformed theology (though well intended—NC) has kept us Gentiles under the Law, if not as a means of righteousness, then as “a rule of life,” that all the trouble has arisen (legalism, which was always Paul’s greatest opposition to the doctrine of grace—NC). The Law is no more a rule of life than it is a means of righteousness. Walking in the Spirit has now taken the place of walking by ordinances. God has another principle under which He has positioned His saints: “You are not under law, but under grace” (Rom 6:14). “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).

- Wm R Newell



Excerpt from MJS devotional for July 11:
“If and when the trial comes, you will find Him waiting there.” - MJS

“We should always be prepared for circumstances that will arise, and for blessings that are to come, without foreseeing what these circumstances and blessings will be. This preparation consists in attention to present responsibility, and acceptance of present discipline.

“If day by day we first seek divine direction, and then follow it, we shall be ready, when new circumstances arise, for the new blessings which will be offered. Today should be preparation for tomorrow. The only proof that we shall be equal to tomorrow’s test is that we are meeting today’s test believingly and courageously. The only evidence that we shall be willing for God’s will tomorrow is that we are subject to His will today.” -W.G.S.

Thank you for your post, I have a question that always puzzles me when I read passages like this. What about sin? I believe the Biblical Definition of sin is transgression of the law 1John 3:4 If the law is gone how is sin defined? Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 I know we are not saved (justified) by the law but are we not sanctified by it? Is it not the tutor that leads us to Christ? Galatians 3:24 Is it not spiritual? Romans 7:14 I am just trying to understand this School of thought. Thanks for allowing me to share.

 

[Netchaplain]

I get the feeling this is going to be a long thread. As I always say, the standards of the Law are not done away with, and a person who is truly righteous will live in those standards because that's his nature (only Christ did that). The Law describes righteous character. The issue is with the punishment, which was earthly in nature, the ultimate being death and thus extinction. Christ took the penalty by dying in our stead. So don't confuse paying the penalty with eradicating the Law.

Hi LFR - The doing of God's will is and has always been encouraged by God to man, starting with the Jews, and this even before the Mosaic Law. This Law was only temporary and is why it has been "taken away" (Heb 7:18, 19; 8:7; 10:9).

The reason for it was not to save but to show the need for it, and is why no man could keep it in the way required, as James 2:10 shows it wasn't intended for man to keep it but rather reveal he can't, thus showing the need for Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure "The Law" has been set aside.

amen to that

 

[bbyrd009]

Hence the Law being removed

arg. imo the law has not been removed, set aside, negated, obviated, or superseded. You must fulfill the law, under grace.

 

[Netchaplain]

Thank you for your post, I have a question that always puzzles me when I read passages like this. What about sin? I believe the Biblical Definition of sin is transgression of the law 1John 3:4 If the law is gone how is sin defined? Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 I know we are not saved (justified) by the law but are we not sanctified by it? Is it not the tutor that leads us to Christ? Galatians 3:24 Is it not spiritual? Romans 7:14 I am just trying to understand this School of thought. Thanks for allowing me to share.

Hi WO - The phrase "law of God" in the NT does not usually mean the Mosaic Law but rather "anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command, i.e. of any law whatsoever" (Genesis 1:1 (KJV)).

Thus when Scripture speaks of the law of God in the NT it often refers to the principle of God, which has always existed for man to obey even before the Mosaic Law was revealed for the Jews, i.e. Romans 7:22, 25; esp. 8:7.

The first law of God concerning sin was Gen 2:17, hence the law of sin in Num 15:28; Eze 18:4, 20. This is the law of sin for unbelievers, regardless their nationality, because the Mosaic Law no longer exists for the Jew, who are now are under this universal law.

 

[bbyrd009]

Num 15:28

boy, the very next verse contests that pov;

29Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

imo forcing "unbelievers" into this is a false dichotomy

 

[Wild Olive]

Hi WO - The phrase "law of God" in the NT does not usually mean the Mosaic Law but rather "anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command, i.e. of any law whatsoever" (Genesis 1:1 (KJV)).

Thus when Scripture speaks of the law of God in the NT it often refers to the principle of God, which has always existed for man to obey even before the Mosaic Law was revealed for the Jews, i.e. Romans 7:22, 25; esp. 8:7.

The first law of God concerning sin was Gen 2:17, hence the law of sin in Num 15:28; Eze 18:4, 20. This is the law of sin for unbelievers, regardless their nationality, because the Mosaic Law no longer exists for the Jew, who are now are under this universal law.

Thank you so much for your reply. I agree that God's standards for rightousness was established before He spoke it to Israel during the Exodus. I do not believe it changed from the beginning. Sin is sin and rightousness is rightousness. Would not everything established include the words given at Sinai? I thought God does not change, did His standard for rightousness change? How can what He calls life in Dueteronomy 30:19 now bring death? Christ is all that is good, He is the word John 1. We must walk as He walked 1 John 2:6 and He walked in perfect obedience to the Father.