Law Rules—Grace Lives

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you take the law as your rule of life—and holy, and just, and good it is—remember that as many as are of its works, upon that principle, are under the curse, as the Apostle Paul said (“of its works” i.e. trusting its works or any works for forgiveness - Gal 3:10; “under the curse,” because man could not perfectly obey the law, which was intended to establish the necessity of Christ to change one’s heart - Jas 2:10—NC). It is only when man puts himself under the law that he forfeits everything, for then God must allow him to prove how much he can claim on the ground of his sown works.

You find neither pilgrim nor stranger-ship in your rule, and that may suit you; but you find no glories of the new creation in it either; nor does it speak to you as a heavenly people, sanctified, and sent into the world as the Father sent His Son. All this is nowhere; the Christian’s place no higher than the Jews (still law not grace—NC); the standard of walk no different; for, of course, if the law is your rule of life, as was the Jews’, there cannot, and ought not to be any difference between you walk and his; your position in the Lord Jesus and its privileges gone, for of these the Jew knew nothing (the Jews chose not to advance from being a people of God under the prior Covenant, to being children of God under the present Covenant, as the indwelling of Christ is required to be an “heir” in the child-ship of the Father - Rom 8:17—NC).

But “if any man be in Christ he is a new creature’ old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new” (2Cor 5:17 – and all remains new daily - Lam 3:23—NC). What does this mean: “a new creature”; a new sort of creature, as the Word implies? Do you go back to Adam, the pure and innocent man in the garden which God set him in to dress and keep? Nay, that would be no creature new in kind! Adam, even pure and good before his fall, was yet “of the earth, earthy” (but God’s plans were of a greater “heavenly” position for man, providing a closer fellowship of, not just being with Him on earth but being in Him in heaven, via His Spirit - 1Cor 15:47-49; Jhn 14:16, 17—NC). Is the Lord Jesus but the first man set up afresh? Never! He is “the second Man, the Lord from heaven” (v 47).

Let men cavil as they please, He is a heavenly Man; a second, another sort (first with the new body in heaven—NC); a “last Adam,” seen and accepted before the Father, “in the Beloved.” “As is the earthy, such are they also that are heavenly.” The image of it we have not yet, true (e.g. the new body and sinless state—NC). That will be ours in the day of His coming. The thing we are (eternal child of God in Christ—NC)!

Do you and I know what it is to look into those heavens, where the Son of God sits in glory all His own, and see and recognize in Him what we are before the Father, “as He is,” even “in this world” (1Jo 4:17)? Can we say quite confidently, each for themselves, “Yes, we are identified with “Him who is our Life” before the face of the Father (Col 3:4); as He is, in whom no spot was ever found, nor can be (impeccable—NC), after the Father’s own heart wholly”? That is to be in Christ, a new creature. Our rule is to “walk in Him” (Col 2:6), as being what we really are: heavenly citizens, pilgrims and strangers upon the earth (all are pilgrims on this present earth because it will “pass away” - Rev 21:1. I do not think Christians will dwell on the new earth, but rather rule it with the Lord Jesus from the new heaven; and the new Jerusalem possibly being the meeting place of fellowship between the earthly and heavenly dwellers (Rev 21:2—NC).

All the rest the Cross has ended for us. We have died with the Lord Jesus out of our old Adam position; our old man was crucified with Him on the Cross (Rom 6:6). The flesh is in us still, indeed, but in us a foreign thing. We are not in it before our Father, nor identified with it in anywise (concerning its damnation, dominion and ungodliness – Rom 8:1; 6:14; Tit 1:15—NC), but with Him in Whom it was never found. We are in Him as He is and where He is. Can we own this, and seek to get on in a world (i.e. get together with the world—NC) that crucified the Lord Jesus; a world to which we are crucified and it crucified to us (Gal 6:14); a world whose prince and god is Satan (Jhn 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2Co 4:4), and friendship with which is enmity against God (Jas 4:4)? Can we take up the law with others, when our Father has shown us grace? Not I, “for I, through the law, and dead to the law, that I might live unto God” (Gal 2:19).



— Wm Kelly (1821-1906)
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“As is the earthy, such are they also that are heavenly.”

I believe that this is a misquote of the holy scripture.

The correct rendering:

1Co 15:47, The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48, As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49, And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that this is a misquote of the holy scripture.

The correct rendering:

1Co 15:48, As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
Hi and appreciate your reply! It's true that this is not the direct quote but is a briefed quote of the passage, and I believe the writer was assuming the reader knew the passage and merely wrote it in short-thought. Though for the sake of avoiding a misunderstanding, I think it may have been better to just quote to entire passage, as you've indicated.

God bless!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

DPMartin

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
2,698
794
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
netchaplin your Wm Kelly really sucks incase you don't know. to read that posting is 5 to 10 minutes I can't get back. when Paul says it plain as day here:

Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 
Rom 3:29  Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 
Rom 3:30  Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 
Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
netchaplin your Wm Kelly really sucks incase you don't know. to read that posting is 5 to 10 minutes I can't get back. when Paul says it plain as day here:

Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 
Rom 3:29  Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 
Rom 3:30  Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 
Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 
Though I appreciate your comment, I don't think I understand what you mean by "can't get back."
 

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
10,024
14,710
113
66
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Though I appreciate your comment, I don't think I understand what you mean by "can't get back."
He is claiming the time it took to read your post was wasted and he can't get back that wasted time.
I personally appreciate the message in the OP.
If we follow Jesus's teaching to Love we fulfill all the law in this one act.
So as your OP suggests, to be obedient to the law is commendable, however you are bound by it if that is what you choose to seek after...and it is of the flesh.....works.
To seek after the heart of God, who is love, is a more excellant way and it fulfills the law as well. This is spiritual....faith which is evident through our actions.
God Bless!
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So as your OP suggests, to be obedient to the law is commendable, however you are bound by it if that is what you choose to seek after...and it is of the flesh.....works.
Hi and appreciate the help! Concerning obedience to the Law I believe an important note is that only the Jew could be under the Law, and thereby be "forgiven" under the sin sacrifices of the priests (but not after Christ's ascension, which is now through Christianity). Obedience showed faith but could never effect forgiveness, even now (Num 15:22-34); forgiveness being a provisional sacrificial ordinance, same for the Christian through Christ.

God bless!
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe an important note is that only the Jew could be under the Law,

I think that I disagree with this...the law was a schoolmaster to lead all of us to Christ, who have come to Christ.

And as such, we would have had to have been under it, whether Jew or Gentile.

Though I think that what you are saying is that Gentiles were not given the ceremonial law concerning sacrifices and therefore never attempted to come to God through animal sacrifices.

I am personally talking about the moral law, however. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scoot

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
10,024
14,710
113
66
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think that I disagree with this...the law was a schoolmaster to lead all of us to Christ, who have come to Christ.

And as such, we would have had to have been under it, whether Jew or Gentile.

Though I think that what you are saying is that Gentiles were not given the ceremonial law concerning sacrifices and therefore never attempted to come to God through animal sacrifices.

I am personally talking about the moral law, however. :)
I have been studying Leviticus and Nehemiah and their laws for sanctification is very strict...only those of direct Jewish lineage were allowed to build the wall and temple.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have been studying Leviticus and Nehemiah and their laws for sanctification is very strict...only those of direct Jewish lineage were allowed to build the wall and temple.
I'm not sure that this substantiates the idea that only Jews are under the law.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Heart2Soul

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
10,024
14,710
113
66
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm not sure that this substantiates the idea that only Jews are under the law.
Well it's just an observation....I was shocked how strict their laws were pertaining to certain things.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well it's just an observation....I was shocked how strict their laws were pertaining to certain things.
Yes indeed...I believe that it is the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly that will bring a man to the end of himself so that he sees trusting in Christ as the only option...see Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48.

Also Galatians 3:22, Galatians 6:13.
 
Last edited:

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To which someone might respond with Luke 1:37.

Luk 1:37, For with God nothing shall be impossible.

I would only say that the means by which a man might be able to keep the law perfectly will not come through attempting to keep the law perfectly.

Rather, a man must believe in Christ, and thereby receive the Spirit (Galatians 3:14).

Then the Spirit sheds abroad His love in the heart of the man (Romans 5:5); and this love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within him (Romans 8:4, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:22-23).

But it is not any longer the letter of the law that he is bound by; but rather in Christ he will be obedient to the spirit of the law in that he will be seeking to follow the leadings and promptings of the Holy Spirit (see Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

In this, the one who is born of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9); and this does not mean that he will never violate the letter of the law; rather it means that his life is now governed completely by the love of God because of the Spirit of God dwelling within him (again, Romans 5:5; see also Colossians 3:14).
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think that I disagree with this...the law was a schoolmaster to lead all of us to Christ, who have come to Christ.
And as such, we would have had to have been under it, whether Jew or Gentile.
I get what you mean, but Scripture is direct in affirming that the Law, which is no longer active, was to the Jew only, and was used to reach them with Christ first through the New Covenant. The Gentiles (all who were not Jews, which was the rest of the world apart from the Jews) never had a covenant with God.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,717
4,115
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I get what you mean, but Scripture is direct in affirming that the Law, which is no longer active, was to the Jew only, and was used to reach them with Christ first through the New Covenant. The Gentiles (all who were not Jews, which was the rest of the world apart from the Jews) never had a covenant with God.
I would point out what it says in Romans 3:19-20.

Rom 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


All the world becomes guilty before God because of being under the law; not just the Jewish people.

Also, if Gentiles are not under the law, how do they obtain the knowledge of sin?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Scoot

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,808
4,086
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I think that I disagree with this...the law was a schoolmaster to lead all of us to Christ, who have come to Christ.

And as such, we would have had to have been under it, whether Jew or Gentile.

Though I think that what you are saying is that Gentiles were not given the ceremonial law concerning sacrifices and therefore never attempted to come to God through animal sacrifices.

I am personally talking about the moral law, however. :)
No it is not it was for teh Jews only, we have the spirit of God, no longer the flesh but by the spirit.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I would point out what it says in Romans 3:19-20.

All the world becomes guilty before God because of being under the law; not just the Jewish people.
The Law only charges, condemns, but not resolves man's sin nature, only forgiveness granted for believers in God in the OT (Jhn 14:1); and manifests this not only to those who were under it (Jews) but also to the Gentiles who were not under it. Guilt by the knowledge of showing where we're wrong (Jhn 15:22, 24). "For by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom 3:20), which makes all guilty, because its knowledge is available to all to seek understand it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HARK!