Let’S Take A Look At The 4 Different Baptisms

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA

All verses in the NKJV with the words baptism, baptize(d), and baptizing were analyzed.


Baptism into the church (salvation)

This does not refer to an intellectual belief (or conversion of one’s thinking),
but this refers to being born again (from above) with the Holy Spirit entering the person.

“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact
the body is not one member but many.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-14).

The Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer.
“And I will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth …
… you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
… And We will come to him and make Our home with him.” (John 14:16-23)
Other verses stating that the Holy Spirit comes inside the believer are:
Romans 8:11; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; 1 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24, 4:12-16.

It appears that Jesus’ 11 disciples were the first to be born again:
“… He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’ ” (John 20:22).

Baptism in water

Full-immersion water baptism is meant to be symbolic, and it is the outward expression of inward faith.

“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4).
”… buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through
faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12).
Jesus died to self, went down under the earth, was resurrected with a new incorruptible body.
We are to die to self, go down under the water, come up a new man ready to live a new life.
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” (Galatians 3:27).

Several verses indicate that water baptism is strongly advised:
John was God’s forerunner: John came baptizing in the wilderness and
preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”(Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3).
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Jesus, Matthew 28:19).
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe
will be condemned.”(Mark 16:16).
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit …
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day
about three thousand souls were added to them. (Acts 2:38-41).
Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins,
calling on the name of the Lord.” (Acts 22:16).
There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism
… through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

But, water baptism is not necessary for salvation. Scripture teaches us that
we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).
“For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel …” (1 Corinthians 1:17).

Baptism with the Holy Spirit

John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
(Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33) … whereas …
the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the church at the time of our salvation.

Jesus was the first to receive this baptism:
“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water;
and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God
descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.” (Matthew 3:16).
Jesus was baptized in water and baptized with the Holy Spirit at the same time.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after, or at the same time as, being born again
… and there are 7 verses stating that the Holy Spirit comes UPON the believer:
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning.
Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (Acts 11:15-16).
The others are: Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:5-6.

Which baptism is this, salvation or water? “(Peter and John) prayed for them (Samarians)
that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them.
They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 8:15-16).

Jesus made it very clear that He would be sending “the promise” of the Holy Spirit
upon believers (Luke 24:49), specifically the baptism with the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4-8).
This occurred on the Day of Pentecost, and is called “The Coming of the Holy Spirit”.
The Holy Spirit sat upon each person, and then …
“they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance.” (Acts 2:4).
“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those
who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished,
as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out
on
the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized

who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them
to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” (Acts 10:44-48).
In this case, Peter commanded water baptism after the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Many more details are available here … http://www.christian...riptural-study/

Baptism with fire

“He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16).
This refers to the extreme suffering of a martyr for the gospel’s sake.
Jesus was the first in Christianity to go through this.
“But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am
till it is accomplished!” (Luke 12:50).

Jesus asks His 12 disciples if they are able and willing to be martyrs also.
“Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink,
and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
… You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism
that I am baptized with” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39).
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are simply describing the Justification and Sanctification process of being a Christian. There is only one baptism. Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;



Peace
 

bud02

New Member
Aug 14, 2010
727
12
0
And what baptism would that be?
Can you define or interpret this passage please? The Justification and Sanctification process if you would.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And what baptism would that be?
Can you define or interpret this passage please? The Justification and Sanctification process if you would.


I am not sure if you are addressing me - if so, I do not understand your question



 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
But, water baptism is not necessary for salvation. Scripture teaches us that we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9). “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel …” (1 Corinthians 1:17).

You are making the scripture say what you want it to say.

First, justification is a different subject to baptism so you cannot use this verse to substantiate your claims.

Second, all Paul was doing was to tell them his major focus was preaching the gospel. He was not saying that baptism is not necessary.

Third, the first sermon preached on the day of pentecost said in reply to the question "what shall we do"......Repent and be baptised if you want to be. Well that is your version of it.

This is not what the scripture teaches. Nearly every incident of salvation in Acts is accompanied by water baptism. In NT times, most religions baptised new followers because you were not accepted as serious about your commitment until you were baptised. Baptism for the believer is their way of saying that I am committed to the teaching of the messiah. it is your opportunity to publicly bury the old man and rise in newness of life with the new life in Christ. We come back from the dead in baptism.

To not baptise by immersion is the product of a watered down gospel that was introduced by the catholic church in 312AD. Prior to that believers showed their commitment by being immersed in water.

When you have 10 verses in scripture all saying the same thing and two that don't you don't base your doctrine on the two.
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
You are simply describing the Justification and Sanctification process of being a Christian.
There is only one baptism. [font="Verdana][size="2"]Ephesians 4:5 -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism;[/size][/font]
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
For in fact the body is not one member but many.” (
1 Corinthians 12:12-14).

Looks like Paul (in Eph. 4:5) was referring to the baptism into salvation:
one
Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Spirit, one body (having many members).

P.S. I think we should add "one Jesus".

Side note: If "one body" can refer to several parts, why not "one baptism"?

Thanks.
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
But, water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Scripture teaches us that we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).
“For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel …” (1 Corinthians 1:17).
You are making the scripture say what you want it to say.
First, justification is a different subject to baptism so you cannot use this verse to substantiate your claims.
You begin by not agreeing with ... water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Everyone talks about Abraham being the first to know the way, show the way, etc.: "justified by faith".
There are many verses teaching where salvation comes from.
GOD starts it all, and finishes it all ... and there's no room for any of your works (thanks anyway).
GOD chooses you, GOD calls you, GOD gives you the gift of faith ... so, guess what, you have faith.
"by grace you have been saved through faith ... it is a gift ... not of works (i.e. jumping in the water)".

Romans 8:
[sup]29[/sup]
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined ... [sup]
[sup][/sup]30[/sup]
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called;
whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.


 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
[font="Verdana][size="2"]John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless they are born of water and the Spirit.[/size][/font]
John 3:
[sup]3[/sup] Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again (from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[sup]4[/sup] Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old?
Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
[sup]5[/sup] Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born of water and (of) the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[sup]6[/sup] That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[sup]
[sup][/sup]7[/sup] Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ [sup]
[sup][/sup]8[/sup] The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it,
but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The context is important.

Nicodemus was always talking about physical birth.
Jesus informed him there were two births:
Yes, the first birth is necessary: physical (of water).
But, a second birth is required: spiritual (of the Spirit).

If Jesus was talking about anything else,
He would not be answering the poor guy's questions.
 

religusnut

New Member
Oct 19, 2010
242
10
0
Truth is the only one of the four that is required for salvation is the Baptism into the Body.

Water Baptism is a commandment and is necessary but it is just a symbolic outward expression of an inward happening.
 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I beg to differ on this "ït is only symbolic" bit. As I understand it, in baptism I am saying that I no longer want to exist. I want to get rid of the old man of sin and become the new man in Christ. My baptism allows me to show that it is not just words and I expect the old man of sin to die in the water of baptism and as I am raised into new life, I will be clothed with the new man in Christ.

I believe this is essential as nowhere does the scripture suggest that God patches up the old man to make it better. The scripture says we are new creatures in Christ, not patched up ones.

Salvation deals with our sin through repentance and baptism deals with the sin nautre through our own death so it becomes our cross experience after which we "die daily".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Anastacia

242006

New Member
Jun 9, 2010
298
10
0
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

All of you, who attempt to make salvation to be a formula of works, do seriously err.

 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

All of you, who attempt to make salvation to be a formula of works, do seriously err.

As yet, I have not seen anyone do this here.
 

religusnut

New Member
Oct 19, 2010
242
10
0
Yep and cause Jesus died on the cross all of us are going to heaven and live happily ever after.

No repentance, no anything we are all saved and going there.
 

pgfinest2002

New Member
Sep 23, 2010
24
0
0
I disagree with some of this.

Jesus was not baptized to receive the Holy Spirit.
Jesus' baptism, as I understand it, was to introduce Him to Israel. It was His anointing ceremony, much like kings/priest in the OT had been anointed by God (see I Samuel 16:13).

John 1:26 - John answered them, saying, "I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know....(the people did not know Jesus was the Messiah)
John 1:31 - I did not know Him, but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.
John 1:33 - I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to Me, "Upon Whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
John 1:34 - And I (John the Baptist) have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.


As for the Baptism of Fire, it was for judgement I believe John tells us, since chaff is associated with the wicked.

Ps. 1:4 - The ungodly are not so, but are like the chaff...
Matt. 3:10 - ...every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt. 3:12 -...His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
Jesus was not baptized to receive the Holy Spirit.
Jesus' baptism, as I understand it, was to introduce Him to Israel. It was His anointing ceremony,
much like kings/priest in the OT had been anointed by God (see I Samuel 16:13).
I was just basing this on the word "upon", which is strongly hooked into the Holy Spirit baptism.

As for the Baptism of Fire, it was for judgement I believe John tells us,
since chaff is associated with the wicked.
Ps. 1:4 - The ungodly are not so, but are like the chaff...
Matt. 3:10 - ...every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt. 3:12 -...His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor,
and gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Yes, and it could also be referring to the sanctifying process, which can be quite painful indeed.

I'm happy this thread is getting some people to thinking.
 

pgfinest2002

New Member
Sep 23, 2010
24
0
0

Jesus, I believe was empowered by the Spirit resting upon Him (see also Isa. 11 which speaks of Messiah), but I believe, based on what I've read, that it was also His anointing. Whereas Kings/priests in the OT were anointed by the pouring on of oil, Jesus was anointed by the Holy Ghost resting upon Him.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit, I believe, puts believers into the body of Christ (I Co. 12:13).

As for the chaff passage, I believe in the context it is referring to judgement. I also see where the phrase "and fire" is not included in some early manuscripts of Matthew, so that leads me to believe John was speaking of judgement in relation to bad trees/chaff. I also did a little reading on agriculture in the Bible and noticed the chaff was always separated from the wheat grain kernels (I hope I'm quoting the process correctly).

So Jesus, according to John, separates the kernels/wheat from the chaff. He gathers the wheat (good/righteous) and burns the chaff (bad/useless/wicked) according to John. This falls in line with expectations of the Messiah from some OT passages and the belief Messiah would reward righteous but punish wicked Jews.

I don't disagree that God is a consuming fire and can "burn" things out of saints, but when I speak on this particular passage, I believe the "chaff" and "fire" deal with judgement of the wicked, who would not hear Jesus' message or believe on Him.

Just my two cents but thanks for the discussion and topic.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
The baptism of the Holy Spirit, I believe, puts believers into the body of Christ (I Co. 12:13).
Perhaps I may challenge you on this.

In the original post, I showed that ...
-- salvation is always about the Holy Spirit coming INTO the person.
-- Holy Spirit baptism is always about the Holy Spirit coming UPON the person,
and is accompanied by speaking in tongues, etc.
 

religusnut

New Member
Oct 19, 2010
242
10
0

Perhaps I may challenge you on this.

In the original post, I showed that ...
-- salvation is always about the Holy Spirit coming INTO the person.
-- Holy Spirit baptism is always about the Holy Spirit coming UPON the person,
and is accompanied by speaking in tongues, etc.

From my understanding of scripture and my experience in life I have to agree totally with you John.