Lordship salvation ?

[twinc]

what exactly is it and who is/are for or against and why - your comments - twinc

 

[tabletalk]

From John MacArthur:

First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9)

Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work. Those who believe are saved utterly apart from any effort on their own (Titus 3:5). Even faith is a gift of God, not a work of man (Ephesians 2:1-5, 8).

Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16). Faith therefore involves personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15)

Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). Salvation includes a transformation of the inner person (Galatians 2:20). The nature of the Christian is new and different (Romans 6:6).

Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32), not just a ticket to heaven.

Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6).

Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). They will therefore long to obey Him (John 14:15, 23).

Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3). On the other hand, the person who remains utterly unwilling to obey Christ does not evidence true faith (1 John 2:4)

Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8).

 

[Stranger]

I am not a fan of Lordship salvation. It has some things I do agree with of course, but its overall message I don't.

Its overall message is this: If you claim to be Christian, but your life doesn't evidence what I think it should as a Christian, then you never received Jesus as Lord of your life. You just received Him as Saviour. Which means of course that you are not committed to Christ, and are not a real believer. You just exercised some mental acknowledgement of Jesus but were never born-again. You are guilty of 'easy-believism'.

Stranger

 

[Godssrvr]

Lordship salvation teaches a false gospel claiming if you're "truly saved" you will __________. This is in complete error according to scripture teaching justification is by faith alone (Romans chapters 3-5), and because in our flesh is no righteousness whatsoever (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10,23, 7:14-25). Those who have never believed the truth are still lost when they put their trust in this false doctrine. Those who have believed the truth at some point in life, but are now deceived by this teaching, are the same as those in the epistle to the Hebrews, and will never be able to grow spiritually until they open their eyes and rediscover the truth (2 Peter 1:1-9).

These teachers misuse the term "repent" as it applies to justification in order to support their doctrine. The English word "repent" is a poor translation of the word "metanoeo" which simply means "to think differently". In the context of justification by faith, the change in thinking applies to whatever it was we believed before we heard and believed the truth of the gospel.

Example.... I once depended on the righteousness of the law, but I learned Jesus came to save me from my sins through faith in His blood, having His righteousness imputed to us. I then changed my thinking, trusting Jesus Christ and His perfect work alone. This example is actually taken from scripture.

Philippians 3:2-10
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

 

[Helen]

I don't much like John MacArthur ...just I can't fault those scriptures...
I do like what @Godssrvr said in his post, as a balance.

 

[twinc]

I don't much like John MacArthur ...just I can't fault those scriptures...
I do like what @Godssrvr said in his post, as a balance.

yes but I am pointing out that there is a serious controversy and that the balance has been disturbed - twinc

 

[Godssrvr]

Any preaching of the gospel of salvation that places responsibility on the believer either before, during, or after coming to faith is a false gospel. Lordship Salvation requires something a lost person cannot provide, and we know scripture teaches eternal life is a free gift through faith alone in Christ. Presenting ourselves as living sacrifices has nothing to do with being justified by faith. We are justified by the work Jesus did for us when we place ALL our trust in Him alone.

Should we live in obedience and submission? By all means yes! But until we are indwelt with the Spirit of God, the only "obedience" a lost person can possibly have is faith in Christ. When the lost person has "obeyed from the heart" (Romans 6:17), they then have the Holy Spirit indwelling and are capable of righteousness which comes through walking in the Spirit.

 

[Godssrvr]

I don't much like John MacArthur ...just I can't fault those scriptures...

Scripture is never at fault, only how it is used. Didn't Satan use God's words in the Garden of Eden out of context from what He actually said?

Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17)

When they start describing "real faith", that is a huge sign. We either trust the work that Christ did was for us or not. Since receiving eternal life is unconditional, there cannot be any condition describing "real faith".

All LS teachers misuse 2 Corinthians 5:17....
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Salvation is a spiritual work which is accomplished by baptism into Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit.
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." 1 Cor. 12:13

Our mortal lives can be influenced by this spiritual work to bring change in how we live if we are in submission to God and study His Word, having our minds "renewed". But 2 cor. 5:17 says "ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW", which is speaking of our spirit "in Christ". We have been "made the righteousness of God" (Vs21) in spirit, not flesh. Understanding these truths has helped me in my life. It is our "knowledge" of Him that gives us the will to live for Him.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

 

[tabletalk]

Any preaching of the gospel of salvation that places responsibility on the believer either before, during, or after coming to faith is a false gospel. Lordship Salvation requires something a lost person cannot provide, and we know scripture teaches eternal life is a free gift through faith alone in Christ. Presenting ourselves as living sacrifices has nothing to do with being justified by faith. We are justified by the work Jesus did for us when we place ALL our trust in Him alone.

Should we live in obedience and submission? By all means yes! But until we are indwelt with the Spirit of God, the only "obedience" a lost person can possibly have is faith in Christ. When the lost person has "obeyed from the heart" (Romans 6:17), they then have the Holy Spirit indwelling and are capable of righteousness which comes through walking in the Spirit.

You said: "Any preaching of the gospel of salvation that places responsibility on the believer either before, during, or after coming to faith is a false gospel."

The 'responsibility' you mention is always after being born again.
What is: "Should we live in obedience and submission? By all means yes!" We are responsible, after conversion. We will persevere, because God preserves us.
"Obedience and submission" is responsibility.

 

[Godssrvr]

The 'responsibility' you mention is always after being born again.

"Obedience and submission" is responsibility.

Yes I agree with you. What I am pointing out is this responsibility has nothing to do with being justified. It in fact cannot even be accomplished until after being born again. This is why teaching the believer is justified through keeping this responsibility makes Lordship Salvation a false gospel.

 

[Godssrvr]

We will persevere, because God preserves us.

This statement contradicts itself. It isn't our "perseverance" that saved us, it's His preservation.

 

[tabletalk]

Yes I agree with you. What I am pointing out is this responsibility has nothing to do with being justified. It in fact cannot even be accomplished until after being born again. This is why teaching the believer is justified through keeping this responsibility makes Lordship Salvation a false gospel.

I didn't know the L/S teaching was saying "...the believer is justified through keeping this responsibility..."

 

[tabletalk]

This statement contradicts itself. It isn't our "perseverance" that saved us, it's His preservation.

I agree, "it's His preservation."

 

[Godssrvr]

I didn't know the L/S teaching was saying "...the believer is justified through keeping this responsibility..."

I have already pointed out some of the responsibility of salvation that Lordship Salvation places on the believer in former comments. Basically, they describe what is "true faith" and what isn't by suggesting how a person will live after they're saved. If how a person lives determines if they have had "true faith", then faith MUST be accompanied by works, making it a false gospel by placing confidence in the flesh, rather than in Christ alone.

If you disagree with me it's okay. I don't debate this because it's never fruitful in my experience, but scripture cannot be compromised and it speaks for itself. Romans chapters 3-5 teaches faith alone on our part.

 

[tabletalk]

I have already pointed out some of the responsibility of salvation that Lordship Salvation places on the believer in former comments. Basically, they describe what is "true faith" and what isn't by suggesting how a person will live after they're saved. If how a person lives determines if they have had "true faith", then faith MUST be accompanied by works, making it a false gospel by placing confidence in the flesh, rather than in Christ alone.

If you disagree with me it's okay. I don't debate this because it's never fruitful in my experience, but scripture cannot be compromised and it speaks for itself. Romans chapters 3-5 teaches faith alone on our part.

O.K. Peace..