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Featured Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Zachary, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    “And we know that God causes everything to work together
    for the good of those who love God and are called
    according to his purpose for them.” (Romans 8:28)

    These were predestined, called, justified, and glorified (8:29-30).

    Those who truly love God obey Him by resisting temptations to sin!

    “God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation.
    Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God
    has promised to those who love Him.” (James 1:12)

    Believers who endure temptation:
    ● love God
    ● chose to be obedient to Jesus (see below)
    ● will receive the crown of (eternal) life


    “Temptation comes from our own desires,
    which entice us and drag us away.
    These desires give birth to sinful actions.
    And when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.
    So, don’t be misled, my dear brothers and sisters.” (James 1:14-16)

    Believers who do NOT endure temptation:
    ● will fall into habitual sin
    ● will receive spiritual (eternal) death …
    UNLESS they sincerely repent (stop their habitual sinning).


    Those who really love Jesus obey Him
    “Those who accept My commandments and obey them
    are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
    “All who love Me will do what I say.” (John 14:23)
    “Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.” (John 14:24)
    “When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love” (John 15:10)
    “You are my friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

    Who gets to heaven who does not love Jesus,
    who is not His friend,
    and who does not obey His commandments?


    Slaves of sin -- OR -- slaves of obedience
    “… if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
    you are slaves of the one whom you obey,
    either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
    OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?”
    (Romans 6:16)


    “… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:51)

    “if you want to receive eternal life,
    keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)


    “So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

    “Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments

    have life with God. But there is NO (eternal) life in those

    who do not keep His commandments.”
    (from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, which was quoted as Scripture by early
    Christian leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Clement of Alexandria)
    .
     
  2. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    "Loving Jesus enough to obey Him ensures salvation" is not the issue.
    Salvation is a gift from from God, it is not earnt or deserved because we love him or are obedient, these are merely an expression of our love for him.
     
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  3. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    This opens up some questions.....
    --If salvation is an UNconditional gift from God, how then is it decided which people will or will not receive this gift?
    --Can those who impenitently live in disobedience, rebellion to God receive this free gift?
    --Did Noah earn the saving of his house by building the ark (Hebrews 11:7) or was the saving of his house by grace?
    --Can one be saved without ever having to obey God?
     
  4. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Yes, and the answers should be obvious to
    those who read the NT with an open mind,
    i.e. a mind which has NOT been deceived
    with various false doctrines, biases, etc.

    Trouble is ... most believers do NOT do this,
    and we have corrupt pastors who have
    various reasons for NOT telling us the Truth.

    I will post another thread about this ...
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Can those who receive a new heart "impenitently live in disobedience, rebellion to God"?

    Does the Blood of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit really transform us or not? I believe the evidence shows that it does.
     
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    When did God save Noah: When God warned him about the flood? When God instructed him to build an Ark? When God closed the door? When God brought the Ark safely to rest on dry land? When God marked his covenant with a rainbow? ... YES, to all.

    [Romans 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

    [Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

    God always makes the fist move, and we respond as HIS workmanship.

    Soli Deo Gloria! (Glory to God Alone!)
     
  7. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Yes, born-again people also have free-will to do as they please.
    Last time I checked, they are NOT robots.

    Yes, the following trilogy is supposed to transform us:
    -- the indwelling Holy Spirit
    -- we are new creations
    -- we have the full Scriptures
    But, born-again people also have free-will.
    .
     
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Humanity brings in the chaos into salvation theory...the random uncertainty of it.

    Grace also works like this. A born again person is like the wind....fully unknowable to us as to origin AND destination. But God knows. So grace removes any possibility of certainty or assurance on that level.

    The only certainty that grace gives us is the level of walk we experience. Are we walking in a supernatural power doing things that a man can't do? Then we know that we are walking by grace.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  9. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Okay, we understand God's grace ...
    but what about man's free-will to disobey God,
    fall from grace, draw back unto perdition, etc.?
    .
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Always a possibility...in fact we all play with fire at times until we realize just how fragile we are.
     
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  11. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    The answer to my question about a person who impenitently lives in disobedience, rebellion to God is "no" therefore salvation is not possible without obedience.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  12. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Well-Known Member

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    The answer to my question about Noah is that house was saved by grace but it took an obedient work by Noah to procure the gracious saving of his house, therefore his work in building the ark earned nothing.

    As far as my other question, no one can live an entire life in impenitent disobedience, rebellion to God and be saved. Therefore obedience is necessary.
     
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  13. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    ... and what are born-again people pleased to do?

    I believe James discussed this in his letter.
     
  14. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    “Is supposed to”, or does?
     
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    I would argue that ONLY born-again people have free-will. The rest are slaves to their sins and fallen nature.
     
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  16. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    According to Ephesians 2 and Romans 9, obedience is not possible without salvation.
     
  17. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    You have demonstrated that walking in disobedience is proof of an unsaved status.
    That does not necessarily mean that obedience is a prerequisite for salvation.
    It is equally possible that obedience is a “fruit” of salvation.
     
  18. CNKW3

    CNKW3 Active Member

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    What about Adam and Eve?
    According to your understanding and logic.....Adam and Eve were NEVER in a saved state with God.
    Why? Because, as you said, they were disobedient.
    Walking or living in disobedience is therefore proving God created two individuals who were in an unsaved state.
    But, I’m sure you’ll respond with something like.....
    Adam and Eve were a special case since they were created and not born. You are a Calvinist so you have to believe that. The truth is, is that ALL life is given by God and created, conceived, born PURE just like Adam and Eve. And ALL life chooses to sin and be disobedient to Gods will just like Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were NOT created/born in sin but still sinned. We too are NOT born in sin like Adam and Eve and we too choose to disobey God even while in a saved stare with the Lord.

    The Bible is in complete harmony from beginning to end until you Calvinist get a hold of it.
     
  19. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    As salvation is a free gift, who gets that gift is under the control of the giver.

    Those who have recieved the gift want it and a relationship with Jesus so they will naturaly want to obey him as an expression of their love for him.
     
  20. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    1. I note that you lack any scripture references to support your opinions.

    2. It is always refreshing to meet another mind-reader who knows what I believe and will spare me the effort of having to bother answering for myself with what I actually believe.

    3. If the Bible is in such harmony except for Calvinism, then why is it that Calvinists are always quoting scriptures and pointing to their context while our critics prefer to present emotional appeals and ad hominem attacks in rebuttal?


    What about Adam and Eve?

    • [Genesis 2:7, 22, 25] 7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. ... 22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. ... 25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

    God made Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2. Adam and Eve were created without the shame of "original sin".

    • [Gen 3:6-7, 16-19 NASB] 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings. ... 16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." 17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

    Adam and Eve exercised their free will to choose to disobey God in Genesis chapter 3 and immediately became aware of the shame of the "original sin" [Gen 3:7]. God cursed Adam because of his "original sin" - we inherit the Adamic Curse. We are not born with the same pre-curse non-fallen nature that Adam and Eve had in Genesis 2.

    See, you guessed wrong about my answer. I went to scripture like Calvinists like to. Now why don't you explain to me, from scripture, how nothing changed at the fall if you believe that we have the same nature as the Adam and Eve in Genesis Chapter 1 and 2 when the whole world was "very good" [Genesis 1:31].
     
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