Luke 12:47-48 question

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Fether

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47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


Hownis it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal? Will some only be there for a period of time? Are we also to assume that those who did not have a full understanding of the gospel and Christ wont be consigned to hell simply because the reject the message of Christ?
 

Windmillcharge

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47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


Hownis it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal? Will some only be there for a period of time? Are we also to assume that those who did not have a full understanding of the gospel and Christ wont be consigned to hell simply because the reject the message of Christ?


Contex, contex and again context.

This is the tailend of a parable and only makes any sence if one reads the whole parable..

If you insist on an explanation:-
God will punish more severely someone who knowingly sins, compared to someone who sins out of ignorance, both get punished but the one with knowledge about sin and who sins is punished more.
 

Cooper

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47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


Hownis it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal? Will some only be there for a period of time? Are we also to assume that those who did not have a full understanding of the gospel and Christ wont be consigned to hell simply because the reject the message of Christ?
Sometimes a more modern translation can be useful, see below.

If servants are not ready or willing to do what their master wants them to do, they will be beaten hard. But servants who don't know what their master wants them to do will not be beaten so hard for doing wrong. If God has been generous with you, he will expect you to serve him well. But if he has been more than generous, he will expect you to serve him even better. (Luke 12:47-48 CEV)

Basically, it sets forth a fundamental principle in regard to all service. The principle is that the greater the privilege, the greater is the responsibility.

"For believers, that means that there will be degrees of reward in heaven.

For unbelievers, it means that there will be degrees of punishment in hell.

Those who have come to know God's will as it is revealed in the Scriptures are under great responsibility to obey it. Much has been given to them, and so much will be required of them. Those who have not been so highly privileged will also suffer for their misdeeds, but less than their spiritual seniors."

(Believers Bible)
 
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Waiting on him

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2 Corinthians 11:23 KJV
[23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Paul’s account contradicts what all of you have post so far. I believe something has been missed?
 

Deborah_

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2 Corinthians 11:23 KJV
[23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Paul’s account contradicts what all of you have post so far. I believe something has been missed?

Jesus was talking about the eternal consequences of abusing positions of leadership in the Church.
Paul is talking about something completely different - the persecution he suffered on earth for preaching the gospel.
 
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Fether

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Contex, contex and again context.

This is the tailend of a parable and only makes any sence if one reads the whole parable..

If you insist on an explanation:-
God will punish more severely someone who knowingly sins, compared to someone who sins out of ignorance, both get punished but the one with knowledge about sin and who sins is punished more.

I understand this completely. Im asking about the punishment itself. What will the larger punishment be over the lesser? I thought hell was hell. Will the person who someone who sins in ignorance go to hell for a short period time and then to heaven? Or will it be a less hot lake of fire?
 

Cooper

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I understand this completely. Im asking about the punishment itself. What will the larger punishment be over the lesser? I thought hell was hell. Will the person who someone who sins in ignorance go to hell for a short period time and then to heaven? Or will it be a less hot lake of fire?
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
(Luke 12:47-48 KJV)


Shall be beaten with many stripes - Criminals among the Jews could not be beaten with more than forty stripes; and as this was the sum of the severity to which a whipping could extend, it may be all that our Lord here means. But, in some cases, a man was adjudged to receive fourscore stripes! How could this be, when the law had decreed only forty? Answer: By doubling the crime. He received forty for each crime; if he were guilty of two offenses, he might receive fourscore. (Adam Clarke)

Many stripes - Shall be severely and justly punished. They who have many privileges, who are often warned, who have the gospel, and do not repent and believe, shall be far more severely punished than others. They who are early taught in Sunday schools, or by pious parents, or in other ways, and who grow up in sin and impenitence, will have much more to answer for than those who have no such privileges. (Albert Barnes)
.
 
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Fether

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And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
(Luke 12:47-48 KJV)


Shall be beaten with many stripes - Criminals among the Jews could not be beaten with more than forty stripes; and as this was the sum of the severity to which a whipping could extend, it may be all that our Lord here means. But, in some cases, a man was adjudged to receive fourscore stripes! How could this be, when the law had decreed only forty? Answer: By doubling the crime. He received forty for each crime; if he were guilty of two offenses, he might receive fourscore. (Adam Clarke)

Many stripes - Shall be severely and justly punished. They who have many privileges, who are often warned, who have the gospel, and do not repent and believe, shall be far more severely punished than others. They who are early taught in Sunday schools, or by pious parents, or in other ways, and who grow up in sin and impenitence, will have much more to answer for than those who have no such privileges. (Albert Barnes)
.

yes… but what does this look like in Application?

Compare a seminary student, who also grew up in the church, chooses to abandon the faith to an atheist who never really learned about Christ.

The apostate seminary student will be punished with more stripes than the atheist who never really learned about Christ. But what do those “more stripes” entail? A hotter pot of lava?
 

Waiting on him

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Jesus was talking about the eternal consequences of abusing positions of leadership in the Church.
Paul is talking about something completely different - the persecution he suffered on earth for preaching the gospel.
I don’t see a church as being in existence till after the gifting of the Holy Spirit.
 

atpollard

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I understand this completely. Im asking about the punishment itself. What will the larger punishment be over the lesser? I thought hell was hell. Will the person who someone who sins in ignorance go to hell for a short period time and then to heaven? Or will it be a less hot lake of fire?
Since the Bible does not say ... I suggest Dante's Inferno for human speculation with no biblical authority. A "fun" read. ;)
 
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Cooper

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yes… but what does this look like in Application?

Compare a seminary student, who also grew up in the church, chooses to abandon the faith to an atheist who never really learned about Christ.

The apostate seminary student will be punished with more stripes than the atheist who never really learned about Christ. But what do those “more stripes” entail? A hotter pot of lava?
The apostate backslider would be condemned to eternal destruction, which is something the OSAS people deny.
.
 

Christ4Me

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47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Hownis it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal? Will some only be there for a period of time? Are we also to assume that those who did not have a full understanding of the gospel and Christ wont be consigned to hell simply because the reject the message of Christ?

Sometimes the meaning of the Greek words can be lost in translation to English. Not all words of hell in English is referring to the afterlife. Some are referring to the valley of slaughter on earth; hence the Greek word "geena" or Gehenna. This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else be excommunicated and left behind on earth when that firer calamity comes on the third of the earth that will bring about the coming great tribulation.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

Jesus is addressing all saved believers in answering Peter's question about the rewards for being a good steward.

42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

Jesus is addressing saved believers still for not being good stewards in why because of iniquity, they were not ready & excommunicated by Him.

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Note how they were left behind for not being ready and yet He still calls them servants as they will be judged by stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for lack of knowledge for not being ready.

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Note how this fire is sent on the earth in verse 49. So this is not the afterlife, but the consequence for not being ready & left behind on earth when that fire comes on earth. Jesus warned of it in Luke 17:26-30 & Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-14 & John in Revelation 8:7-13 for why saved believers were to be ready or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation Revelation 2:18-25

If you consider why the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, so will God do for the marriage Supper above for when the Bridegroom comes.
 
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Fether

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The apostate backslider would be condemned to eternal destruction, which is something the OSAS people deny.
.

Since the apostate will be condemned for eternal destruction, does that mean there is a lesser hell for the ignorant atheist? What would “fewer stripes” mean for him?
 

Fether

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Sometimes the meaning of the Greek words can be lost in translation to English. Not all words of hell in English is referring to the afterlife. Some are referring to the valley of slaughter on earth; hence the Greek word "geena" or Gehenna. This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else be excommunicated and left behind on earth when that firer calamity comes on the third of the earth that will bring about the coming great tribulation.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

Jesus is addressing all saved believers in answering Peter's question about the rewards for being a good steward.

42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

Jesus is addressing saved believers still for not being good stewards in why because of iniquity, they were not ready & excommunicated by Him.

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Note how they were left behind for not being ready and yet He still calls them servants as they will be judged by stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for lack of knowledge for not being ready.

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Note how this fire is sent on the earth in verse 49. So this is not the afterlife, but the consequence for not being ready & left behind on earth when that fire comes on earth. Jesus warned of it in Luke 17:26-30 & Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-14 & John in Revelation 8:7-13 for why saved believers were to be ready or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation Revelation 2:18-25

If you consider why the church is to excommunicate an unrepentant brother, so will God do for the marriage Supper above for when the Bridegroom comes.

so your saying these stripes are earthly punishments, not eternal?
 

atpollard

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The apostate backslider would be condemned to eternal destruction, which is something the OSAS people deny.
.
One is EITHER apostate OR a backslider.

[apostate]
[1 John 2:18-19 NASB20] 18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not [really] of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but [they went out,] so that it would be evident that they all are not of us.​

[backslider]
[Galatians 6:1 NASB20] 1 Brothers [and sisters,] even if a person is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness; [each one] looking to yourself, so that you are not tempted as well.

[James 5:19-20 NASB95] 19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
... and it is Jesus who claims:
[John 6:37-45 NASB95]
37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." 41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven." 42 They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?" 43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

  1. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. [Jesus]
  2. the one who comes to Me I [Jesus] will certainly not cast out.
  3. I Myself [Jesus] will raise him [everyone saved] up on the last day.
That is "Preservation of the Saints" and "Eternal Security" in the strength of the promise of God the Son and the will of God the Father ... lightly shrugged off as "OSAS" by those that claim to hold onto righteousness by the strength of human will. We know that it is God who is at work in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure [Philippians 2:13] and He who began a good work in us will perfect it [Philippians 1:6], so it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy [Romans 9:16].
 

Christ4Me

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so your saying these stripes are earthly punishments, not eternal?

Those who get left behind are still saved but they missed out on being partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection to be as the angels that never die nor marry.

Those who get left behind will have their physical bodies destroyed, as in physical death, but their spirts are saved as they will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House; vessels of wood & earth on earth in serving the King of kings. The vessels unto dishonor are entirely different from the vessels unto honor, the vessels of gold & silver, in living in the City of God that will come down to earth where God will dwell with man on earth in New Jerusalem.

I see the weeping and gnashing of teeth as like Esau weeping for giving up his birthright for a meal as well as the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, even though he is still son. I see why God has to wipe the tears from their eyes to help them get past that loss, Revelation 7:9-17 but they will praise Him for having saved them anyway as they bears witness of the power of God in salvation for all who believe even in His name.

This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready as found abiding in His words as His disciples or else. John 15:1-8 Note verse 6

Those in iniquity that deny Him ( Titus 1:16 ) will be denied by Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but even if they do not believe in Him any more, He is faithful for He still abides per 2 Timothy 2:13

That is why even former believers are still called to depart from iniquity & not just carnal believers ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) so they too can be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House before the Bridegroom comes or else be left behind as "damned" because God will destroy body & soul in that hell on earth ( soul being the vitality thus losing that first resurrection inheritance ). That is why those resurrected after the great tribulation has to eat from the tree of life.

Christ's the firstfruits, do not need to eat from the tree of life for they will be like the angels that live for ever.

Only the power of the second death will not be over those saints resurrected after the great tribulation before the rest of the dead are resurrected alter on at the Great White Throne Judgment. Revelation 20:1-6
 

Enoch111

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How is it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal?
What makes you think this is about Hell? This is more about rewards.
 

prism

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47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.


Hownis it that some will be beaten with a few stripes while others will be beaten with many? Is hell not eternal? Will some only be there for a period of time? Are we also to assume that those who did not have a full understanding of the gospel and Christ wont be consigned to hell simply because the reject the message of Christ?
It's in the Gospel message that their salvation is revealed. Rejecting the death of God's Son for our sins is no light thing. We remain under condemnation without Him.
 

farouk

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Jesus was talking about the eternal consequences of abusing positions of leadership in the Church.
Paul is talking about something completely different - the persecution he suffered on earth for preaching the gospel.
More broadly also, good to distinguish between the idea in Scripture of becoming progressively unprofitable in service, and the standing of the true believer resting in the finished work of Christ.