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Featured Magical Thinking

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by bbyrd009, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Has your belief system led you to visions of miraculous events that must occur in the near future that infer rewards in an afterlife for good deeds done today in order for your faith to even have any meaning? If it doesn't work out like you planned, and the miracles don't occur in the way you currently understand, what will that do to your faith? Are you a victim of magical thinking?

    Here's How the Human Mind Is Wired For Magical Thinking
     
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  2. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
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  3. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    No, I saw enough to convince me and convinced I will remain. As for eternal rewards, the only one I need is the presence of the Lord.
     
  4. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    No. But I did scan the article and would have read all of it, if the pop-ups would have allowed it. Instead I kept getting kicked out. When you say “magic” is it to imply there are no patterns? The article was saying seeing patterns (I prefer to call it seeing a greater design) is seeing something not really connected although our brain leads us to believe there are connections? Is that what is implied in the article, if so I would say it is bogus. There is a design and patterns all around. how fisher men cast a net to bring in the fish. How night changes to day. God makes sense out of chaos and confusion. Isn’t that it...you spend your whole life up to a certain point believing all is random and irrelevant until God shows there is a purpose to it all? That we belong to a Creator that fully displays Himself in everything around us? Seeing Magic? That is not the word I would use but rather seeing an “intelligent design”.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Lead me to visions?
    No.
    Trust there are miraculous events to occur?
    Yes

    The miraculous events, I trust are Gods Works, not mans.

    Shall there be a "rewards" (not sure that is the correct term)....FOR God, FOR His miraculous works?
    Yes

    Good deeds done while alive in my body, are one of two ways "rewarded"...
    1) By "reward" of the person, for whom I have rendered a good deed.
    2 ) By "reward" of God, for whom my good deed has exalted His Name.

    Does "good deeds" render my "faith" to have meaning?
    I would say "good deeds" I do perform are BECAUSE of my faith.

    And I would describe "good deeds" as what is pleasing to and or exalting to the Lord.

    (While it might appear a "good deed" for a man to Give gifts, money, to the Church, to his wife/family.......if those things were stolen, embezzled, etc. then no, it would not be pleasing to the Lord.)

    The plan is not mine. The miracles are not mine.

    What I currently understand is OUR natural understanding is not the same as Gods spiritual understanding.

    What I currently understand is ASKING the Lord for something, will rarely be given us, according to our understanding.

    Hasn't affected my "faith".
    Has strengthened my "patience".

    Basically I developed a technique, to foster my patience, and it works well for me.

    No. I would say despite having reasons to distrust People....I have never been betrayed, let down, or disappointed for completely Trusting the Lord.
    Is that magical, mystical, miraculous ?

    Seems those words are closely related, but then one must consider the source.

    I trust the Lords Power effected would be miraculous, superseding magical, mystical, trickery and such that men can accomplish to fool other men.

    The Carnal Mind is AGAINST God.
    Faith from God, Has to do with the gift of FaithFULLNESS God gives to, a born again spirit of man, not the MIND.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
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  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    That is a better word, rather than “magic.”. Magic says if we break a mirror we will have seven years bad luck. voodoo is magic.

    God is Miraculous.
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Typical Left-Liberal nonsense from a Leftist website. This is just baloney.

    Now these Leftists are attacking Kanye West because he refuses to march to their tune, making racist remarks against him and expecting that they will get away with it. They are all suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and should all be locked up.
     
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  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i would suspect your pc tbh, i didn't have any pop-ups
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i don't think that is what is implied, seems like i even remember the author qualifying the gist along these lines. No one is saying don't make inferences from recognizable patterns i don't think; imo the point is to recognize that gives you a working theory, not an Absolute Truth.

    Imo this sentiment is repeated many times in Scripture, oh daughters of Jerusalem, do not find love until you are ready, the heir is no better than a slave while he is a child, and remains under servants until he comes of age, several other reflections along the lines of refuting the belief that the belief you begin with is the same belief you will finish with, knowledge brings sorrow, why do you stand there looking up into the sky, there is only one Immortal, no one has ever gone up to heaven, i could basically fill the page
    no son of man may die for another's sins
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    Return to Me, and I will return to you
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    hey, we live in a miracle and the article is plainly not trying to dispute this. What is being disputed is the enduring belief that poisonous snakes literally will not kill you if they bite you, for an analogy, even though our belief systems incorporate this concept on a much more unconscious level.

    We are told there is nothing new under the sun when if you described your life to someone living even 100 years ago you might get burned for a witch, let alone thousands of years ago, they would suspect you were a god or from another planet or something. But none of the advancements that have been made since then would really qualify as miraculous to most believers, either; we have a definition for miracles as believers, that we unconsciously apply hypocritically bc we are hard-wired to do so, and the article explains why
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i'm not sure why you imagine that your opinion nullifies or invalidates the observations made in the article, and you have not made any legitimate rebuttal here, what exactly is baloney or leftist?

    "
    Poor statistical intuition and reasoning – We humans are terrible at predicting the likelihood of rare events, which can make common occurrences seem miraculous. Most events that people experience as “miraculous” are predictably common given real-world base rates and population sizes, but that is not how they seem.

    Our intuitive statistics so wildly miss the mark that an entire book could be written about how readily we get wowed and seek extraordinary explanations for events that we perceive as rare but actually aren’t. In fact, books have been written on this topic, and to do it justice I will dive in later. Suffice to say that people who believe in paranormal phenomena appear to do worse at statistical inference than others..."

    see, these are not facts nor absolute truth but rather valid perceptions that provide valuable insights to why we can be so easily fooled as believers, the same concepts Scripture encodes for those who can see, and hides from the wise
     
  13. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
    James 1:17 NIV

    Doesn't say every gift from God comes wrapped with a pretty bow and a letter.
     
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  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i am talking to big kids who were raised on santa claus and the easter bunny and the tooth fairy, and who all raised their kids on the same stuff. How does this propensity affect your beliefs as a Christian, and what can you do about it is imo essential to finding the faith than can indeed move mountains. Herod the Great was able to make Caesarea; i am not
     
  15. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Not blindly trusting people is a valuable life lesson.
     
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  16. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Probably so. Would have liked to have read it fully.
     
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    I would not reduce a miracle to magical, or give and implication the source is the same.

    I see that as a impressing we are not all the same.

    Some bodies Die, Their soul Depart, Their soul reimpart, and their body resume living.

    Some men will die in extreme heat or cold, while other men can survive the extreme temperature differences.

    Some men can be bitten by poisonous snakes and die while others are immune.

    Some men can be deeply cut and heal in a couple of days while others may take weeks to heal.

    Part of being human is learning About ones own body....and understanding your body is yours and another mans body is his...and that they are not the same....and that the very thing God desires TO BE the same in every human...is the receiving from Him...
    Forgiveness, Restored soul, Quickened spirit, new heart and glorious body.....
    And for sure, for sure, you could be bitten by a poisonous snake and you would not die. :)

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  18. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Many years ago , that verse from Job 'spoke' to me:-
    " Does Job serve God for naught?"

    In other words...why does anyone bother to serve God. For nothing but love...or to gain the "loaves and the fishes" and some gain.

    Bless you....
     
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  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the gist is that believers do worse at statistical inference than most other people, which i know "statistical inference" is like "so what?" but this is another thing like "Hegelian dialectic" that we are all intimately familiar with, you prolly use statistical inference 50 times a day. i can't even imagine what Enoch's objections are about; my guess is he didn't understand the point or something, but a strange thing about this particular point is it's like Nehushtan worship kinda, maybe he understood it only too well
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yet this is exactly what most believers wish to believe, the very people who are also the worst at statistical inference, being written to by masters in psychology, basically, being led by God. You yourself believe a magical occurrence will whisk you--ah, sorry, "you all" right--away from the earth at...ah, i forget the rhetoric, sorry, not quite sure when, some opportune moment, before some common tragedy that you have been convinced is "great tribulation" befalls everyone else, correct?

    and i have no desire to argue the point here, ok, i believed we were all going somewhere most of my life still, and that we were "all" pull together as a team, however you might like to phrase it, and i encourage you to believe that as long as you like, ok, it doesn't matter, i have beliefs too, and i'm sure mine will be disabused too. Bam have beliefs if you like, nothing wrong with having theories. We are even told to form opinions and test them to see if they are true
    ...and few there are who find it is not a guess or a theory though, so you have to interpret that into your theories, not the other way around imo

    But when Rapture--a future mass rapture i mean, not the real one that anyone might experience today--has become a must-happen event is when you really have a problem, ok, or i could even rephrase it to don't get too married to beliefs that seem to divide ppl roughly 50/50, and be extra-suspicious of beliefs that everyone holds in common :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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