1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Making Christ Known As Life

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by soul man, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    503
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Colossians 1:27-28,

    27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

    28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

    You can be in Christ all the days of your life and never do anything about it or with it. You can have Christ in you and never do anything to make him known to the world as your life. You may tell the world they need Jesus, and you would be right. You might even preach hell so hot you can feel the flames, but never do nothing about bringing forth the answer to hurting mankind. There was never the transfer from your life to his life that is in you.

    But you say I clothe the naked, I feed the hungry, I give my time and help the poor. Most Christians do that and are commended for doing so. But bringing Christ alive as your life has slipped you. I must say when we do these works and living in general, the Father see's it as Christ alive, why wouldn't I see it like it is. He does not see your good works He see's Christ being manifest as your creation. We were crucified 2000 years ago in Adam. There is no "I" Adam anymore, there is an "I" Christ. You must see the death, burial, and resurrection as yours to understand the life you live now is Christ. You make the transfer from one life to another, made possible by the cross.

    The selfish, the egotistical, the unrenewed, cannot make the transfer. Paul gave to the mind of the believer the answer, "be transformed by the renewing of the mind."

    Those words are meaningless to those that have a ministry to fulfill, those that have an agenda for God, they like alot of our commission given by Paul they mean nothing. We have come to a time where you can memorize your doctrinal scriptures and we call it mind renewal, no revelation, no calling to him, no making sure your election, but a lackluster jog through the written word.

    Christ revealed in you to you as your only life is the only hope there is, my doing is Christ doing. It is no longer I that lives but Christ alive in every born again believer whether they see it or not, Galatians 1:15-16,

    15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

    16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

    You say how does all this work? In your Father's timing. We can pray and get alot of things from our Father, but a revelation of the indwelling Christ comes in your Father's timing. Only in growth and hunger does a believer see what is plainly written.
     
    "ByGrace", GTW27 and Heart2Soul like this.
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    You keep making this same mistake. And there a number of people who do this. This assumes that we don't need to go before the throne of grace...that God is not waiting for us to seek His face.

    So this doctrine is insidious.

    Paul says to put on Christ to believers. To put on the armour of light. None of this is automatic. Who is he that would would want us to NOT put on power?

    Think about it.

    You are speaking as one of the other 9 lepers who didn't go back to Jesus. Only 1 did. Jesus asked...where are the other 9? A very small percentage of believers will go to God to seek His face for the full grace of God. Are we satisfied with a partial sample? Or are we willing to buy the whole amount? The vessel (or lamp) is free...all believers have one...but the oil must be purchased. The wise will pay attention to this and complete the transaction.

    How many actually walk as dead and alive in Christ today? Any? Is that because they are dead and don't know it? A silly notion. Why are there no zombies walking around as dead but thinking they are still alive? Is this a brain game thing...or a reality?

    Lowering the standard to what we already have is not the same as edification of the inner man into the full stature of Christ. It is to replace this process.

    I know you mean well...but the teaching isn't right. It is not sound doctrine.

    Was Paul seeking his whole life to just realize what he already had? Or was he seeking God's face, His visitation and approval into that walk in holiness where few have tread. To win Christ. To be presented as perfect IN Him.

    So then this human way of thinking causes such confusion in the churches. People falsely believe it is up to them to be perfected. Whereas we are just to seek to enter into what is already perfect. We enter INTO Him.

    We begin with Christ IN us...the HOPE of glory. But the glory is to enter into Him. So we go from a sample of grace to buying the field of grace (the kingdom).

    And the teaching of truth will never be popular. Because of the cost. We need to directly contact God...so that His fire comes down...like at Pentecost. Then the church has power and authority as the early church had.

    Where is the faith of the early believers today?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    amadeus, soul man and faithfulness like this.
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    338
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    I find no fault in @soul man's post in that what he is talking about is the words that follow the renewing of your mind in Ephesians.

    Ephesians. 4:20-24: - 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new/refurbished man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

    I find that many Christian people need to be gracious towards others. We all have our blind spots with regards to our understanding of the Kingdom of God. We tend to first knock down what others post before we attempt to state the "truth" as we perceive it, rather that to applauded the attempts of others to express God's heart for His people and their salvation.

    In a sense @soul man spoke of the need to put on the refurbished man that was created just for us according to God in true righteous and holiness.

    Sadly our point scoring posts are our undoing and we need to repent when we do so. Showing Grace towards others in our actions put the "Christ" within us on display for the world to see and read, a shining example of what it means to be called a "Christian."

    Have we all been successful in putting on the refurbished man which was created according to God in true righteousness and holiness as our witness of Christ in us.

    Shalom
     
    Nancy likes this.
  4. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I agree with you. I post these corrections reluctantly...as I often don't respond. It's when a certain phrase that is clear as a bell rings out but in a bad note...like out of tune.

    I have to step in and tune the thing. When something is that clear...but clearly wrong ...I feel it can have the wrong effect on people.

    The work of God is complete. Our cleansing from sin is total. And the walk is in fulness...when we get there.

    We need to have this goal that Paul did...to win Christ.

    Nobody seems to understand what Paul was after...what he was about.

    People are very uncomfortable with the perfection of Christ. Being fully cleansed from sin is seen as something too far to handle.

    Should we change God's ways?...or should we change our own ways?
     
    amadeus, Nancy and faithfulness like this.
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    338
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Epsikopos, I can see the need to bring correct to a brother when he is wrong in his understanding, but the other side of the coin is that we also need to be right in our understanding of God before we bring that correction but sadly many "Christians" do not have the full understanding of the Kingdom of God when they attempt to bring correction to a brother with their straining of a gnat.

    In tuning a piano we need a key to enable us to tension the strings to achieve the right note/pitch for the pressed key by the musician. Sadly many "Christian" do not hold the right key, so to speak, to bring that correction as they themselves are also out of tune with their understandings about the Kingdom of God. What we end up doing is adding confusion to the thread making the thread all about what we believe is the truth regardless of what that means in the circumstances of the thread and the disharmonies created between the various strings.

    I have made comments regarding your understanding of the teachings of Christ, and yet I find there are certain inconsistencies in your understanding in those areas.

    I am not that sure that Christ is as concerned with the content as we are with the facts that people are speaking in their attempts to spread the gospel to their neighbours.

    A piano can be likened to a community of Christians, i.e. the church, and when all of the strings are pitched correctly by the perfector of tuning that piano, then when God sets out to begin playing the piano the melody and harmony that is brought forth is like music to our ears.

    It is my understanding from reading his posts, that soul man is always attempting to encourage the readers to press further into a meaningful relationship with God. Does he have to have all of his "i"'s dotted and all of his "t"'s suitable crossed so that His message, that soul man is presenting, is perfectly in tune with everybody else. God loves a person who is prepared to wear his heart on his sleeve for the sake of Christ. It prove that God loves us even when we fail and that if we keep pressing into Christ's loving embrace, that we will be perfected as Christ hone us into the person that can stand righteously before Him at the time of judgement. It is our hearts desire for Him that counts, not necessarily the understanding that we have gained in our journey towards a righteous earth.

    Shalom.
     
    soul man likes this.
  6. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I agree of course with the idea of what you are saying. But a life is not a post and a post is not a life. I'm not judging a person's life...just the post. And I do think it's important enough to correct statements that lead people to stop doing what God wants us all to do...to seek to enter into Him. To seek His face. To go to the throne of grace in order to receive empowerment to be an ambassador of Christ.

    This is not about motive or intent. This is about sound doctrine.

    And when it comes to being in tune...exactly...what is the guide pitch? What are we tuning to?

    That's my whole point. If a person is off...but clearly off...it becomes easy to adjust. Unless corrected more of the orchestra will be out of tune with the truth..but "in tune" with each other. This makes matters worse. God will never let the whole orchestra be out of tune together. That is Babylon. He will confuse our tunings on purpose then.

    But then how many people are willing to adjust their pitches at all?

    It's like who has the correct pitch? This is where our free will enters in. It's like an orchestra that each shows up with their own tuning and they refuse to agree on what is the master pitch...so then the orchestra sounds awful...as in..."take away the noise of your songs"

    Amos 5:23 "Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps."

    So while everybody seems to be in tune with themselves, they are not in tune with each other.

    Does the bible help? Apparently not enough. Hence some people here, including me, are saying that the bible points to God. People can't agree on what notes are being sounded. Each has come away with a different tuning after consulting the bible. The bible would seem to support more than one tuning...at least it would appear to.

    But what if there was another way to tune...that agreed with the bible....but from the Spirit?

    So this is what I am presenting...this is my reference.

    I don't think that God wants us to be able to play in symphony together UNTIL we go to Him. THAT is the point of it. God isn't trying to make it more difficult. But He wants to be part of it. The point isn't even to sound good..although we should. The point is that we are doing it IN God. The fact that it sounds good is just a by-product of being in tune with the living God.
     
    faithfulness likes this.
  7. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    503
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Can you show where you have a life of your own! where you need to do anything to be who you are other than by a birthing?
     
  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Jesus said that we must be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect. So we need to get into tune with that.

    No amount of reflection on our part will reveal a perfection already in us. Of course Jesus is perfect within Himself. But we contain other elements that are not of the Lord in us.

    So how do we release the potential of His perfection within us?

    By entering into Christ...where all our impure parts are crucified and His life that now surrounds us...also draws the life from the Christ within us.

    This is what the bible testifies of. And I know this power and this walk in my own experience. To walk in the Spirit is by being in His location...having been "translated" to abide in Him. It's a miracle and a miraculous walk.

    If this was about what men could do there would have never been a New Testament with all the miraculous power being exhibited.

    But this is about the gift of a new life.

    It is a huge miscalculation to keep out the perfection of Christ. We so lack faith that we limit ourselves to our own potential.

    But there is nothing normal or natural about Jesus Christ. His grace takes us to the impossible...the miraculous...and for too many believers...the unbelievable.

    That is my testimony and the authors of the Bible. The Christian walk is very powerful...but that walk is being downgraded to a righteousness walk according to the law. By grace means we can walk on water. Do the impossible. No more struggle with sin. it is easy by grace. It is by His power through grace. Unless people see the miracles as in the early church, people don't understand the level of the kind of life that is by grace.

    But make no mistake...walking in the Spirit is walking as Jesus walked.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    faithfulness likes this.
  9. soul man

    soul man Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    503
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How about starting a thread and we'll chim in.
     
  10. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    We have a free will to decide on our course of action...within certain limits of course. We can speak with each other or we can ignore each other...that's up to us.

    The calling of God is very high. Much higher than we modern people can even imagine.

    So then we can stop this idea of that kind of life by a lack of faith. We are the ones who say..."Stop...that is going too far!"

    People get offended when they hear that Jesus is perfect...and that our perfection is In Him...in HIS life. Never in our own. Our lives are imperfect...and always will be...unless we are empowered by a stronger force...the grace of God. No longer I but Christ.


    No need to soul search and try to conjure up a perfection that is not in us. Until we enter into His process of us abiding in Him...we will be a mixture of things both good and bad. We are to enter into Him and have it perfect right away. It is not our perfection but His we are putting on. We are to put on the new man. Not something we grow into. That is the purity and holiness of the Spirit. Not OUR holiness...but His. He shares His life and holiness...His perfection...with us as we partake of Him where He is. Our part is to learn the maturity to remain there no matter what happens.

    So then people don't want a perfect Jesus to abide in...they want a perfect Jesus to forgive them for remaining sinful in themselves.

    What you are proposing is that we already have this perfection in us...without having to go to God for the full measure of grace. On this we disagree. I'm saying this by experience as well as from the doctrine of the bible.


    Have you walked in resurrection power by just realizing that you always were? That the sins you were doing were just make believe? The people that got offended by your sins..were just faking it?

    So we must beware of straying from reality.

    The miracles recorded in the bible were true...not just for indoctrinated believers...but for the whole world to see. And that is the point. To be a real light in the world. To do so we need real power from heaven. A real walk in the Spirit...in Zion where the presence of God resides. We are to be a conduit of that love, life and power. Yes, we are to raise the dead.

    So this is not a philosophical inward gazing realization of ourselves...but a going to God where He is...by faith.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    faithfulness likes this.
  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    6,254
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I already explained this in another thread...which you are invited to continue in...

    Perfection In Christ
     
  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    338
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    @Episkopos it seems to me that unless someone else presents what you believe is right that you then attempt to bring correction, but if a brother points out that you too need correction in your understanding you rise up and call that brother a heretic or a person who has no understanding.

    I am sure that I do not have all of the right understanding of the Kingdom of God but I love to encourage others to press into God's loving embrace and to draw from Him for the refurbishment of their/our souls so that they/we become a light to those with whom they/we rub shoulders with daily.

    Do I then also need to tell them that the way I formed my relationship with Christ is the only way that they too should form their relationship with Christ? Certainly not. Some people like to sing and play their instruments very loudly in church, but is that applicable to everyone else, when others like to sing and play their instruments quietly and respectfully to the Lord. Neither is not necessarily wrong, but for one to impose their "tastes" onto another in worshipping God is wrong. Both styles of worshipping can be effectively used to reach out to others when ministering to them. There is often no difference between singing loudly or quietly before the Lord when both expresses the worshipping heart of the person concerned.

    Helping and encouraging others to go on a journey walking hand in hand with Christ/God in a righteous earth is God's heart for all of mankind. We should not put stumbling blocks into the path of a "blind" man so that when they stumble and fall down such that they remain fallen with no means of getting up again or becoming afraid of standing again in the Lord.

    We can tell a man once, twice but do we continue with telling that man a third time or do we withdraw and allow God to work a miracle in that person's life so that they will be redeemed by God also.

    @soul man keep expressing your thoughts re our relationship with God, it is good for all of our souls as it helps us all to grow in our relationship with God as we encourage each other in growing into the perfection that God has always intended each of us to personally have.

    Shalom
     
Loading...