Many Claim The Church Didn't Exist Prior To Pentecost, This Is False, Don't Be Deceived!

[Truth7t7]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

(The Words Of Jesus Christ)

Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[Enoch111]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

Obviously you do not know why the Church could only have begun on the day of Pentecost. Taking verses out of context does not help at all. So the one who has been deceived is you.

 

[ewq1938]

The church started in the OT, transformed into the Christian church during the ministry of Christ and his 12 disciples. They spread the gospel after the cross and the church grew from there. Pentecost was not when the church started but a time it grew.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

(The Words Of Jesus Christ)

Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jesus wouldn't be speaking of the NT Church because he hadn't initiated the New Covenant yet. However, the assembly of the righteous is an old concept that went back as far as Mt. Sinai. Organizing a nation into an assembly of faith is what God planned from the very beginning, even though He knew there would be problems.

 

[Enoch111]

The church started in the OT...

The Church could not come into existence until the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost. Prior to that the OT saints were justified by grace through faith. But the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit was given since the day of Pentecost. And that could only happen after the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification of Christ.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He [Jesus] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33).

This ties in with John 16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[BeyondET]

The Church could not come into existence until the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost. Prior to that the OT saints were justified by grace through faith. But the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit was given since the day of Pentecost. And that could only happen after the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification of Christ.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He [Jesus] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (Acts 2:33).

This ties in with John 16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

What do you think of John 20.
22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[quietthinker]

Many Claim The Church Didn't Exist Prior To Pentecost, This Is False, Don't Be Deceived!
Many claim the Earth is flat, this is false, don't be deceived!
Many claim Donald Trump as America's Messiah, this is false, don't be deceived!
Many claim you'll get arthritis if you eat tomatoes, this is false don't be deceived!

Goodness me! if I took notice of what many claim or what they think, I'd be a withering mess!

 

[BeyondET]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

(The Words Of Jesus Christ)

Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 18 is more to do with mediating interpersonal disputes within the membership of a local congregation than church order. Interesting that was an order of King James to use church in place of congregation as much as possible to please the church in those times 1600, I still like the KJV to a point though.

 

[Enoch111]

What do you think of John 20.
22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

This was preliminary. The apostles received the gift of the Holy Sprit on the day of resurrection. But the world received the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (as prophesied by Joel). And that is also when the apostles and the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit ("filled with the Spirit") to preach the Gospel and also speak in tongues.

Pentecost is a harvest celebration, and a harvest of souls was gathered by God on that day. That is also when God called believers "the Church": And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47). While it is not capitalized in the KJB, it really should be capitalized. The church at Jerusalem was the first manifestation of "the Church" (the Body of Christ) which is now throughout the world.

Peter was given "the keys of the Kingdom" while Christ was ministering on earth. But Peter (a) denied Christ, (b) was restored to Christ, and (c) was commissioned to feed the lambs and sheep of Christ. But he was empowered only on the day of Pentecost to preach the Gospel BOLDLY to the Jews (and after that he continued to speak boldly). That was the first key. Later he preached the Gospel to the Gentiles in the home of Cornelius. That was the second key, which opened the door to Heaven through the Gospel.

It would appear that the OT saints in Heaven were also "perfected" on that day, since they too would have all received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Thus they are called "the spirits of just men made perfect". It is the Holy Spirit who "baptizes" believers into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13) and it is the Body of Christ which is "the Church". Therefore the Church did not exist before Pentecost.

 

[BeyondET]

This was preliminary. The apostles received the gift of the Holy Sprit on the day of resurrection. But the world received the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (as prophesied by Joel). And that is also when the apostles and the disciples were empowered by the Holy Spirit ("filled with the Spirit") to preach the Gospel and also speak in tongues.

Pentecost is a harvest celebration, and a harvest of souls was gathered by God on that day. That is also when God called believers "the Church": And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47). While it is not capitalized in the KJB, it really should be capitalized. The church at Jerusalem was the first manifestation of "the Church" (the Body of Christ) which is now throughout the world.

Peter was given "the keys of the Kingdom" while Christ was ministering on earth. But Peter (a) denied Christ, (b) was restored to Christ, and (c) was commissioned to feed the lambs and sheep of Christ. But he was empowered only on the day of Pentecost to preach the Gospel BOLDLY to the Jews (and after that he continued to speak boldly). That was the first key. Later he preached the Gospel to the Gentiles in the home of Cornelius. That was the second key, which opened the door to Heaven through the Gospel.

It would appear that the OT saints in Heaven were also "perfected" on that day, since they too would have all received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Thus they are called "the spirits of just men made perfect". It is the Holy Spirit who "baptizes" believers into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13) and it is the Body of Christ which is "the Church". Therefore the Church did not exist before Pentecost.

Well mo eleven was and at Pentecost the twelfth was and the others also.

 

[Truth7t7]

Interesting that was an order of King James to use church in place of congregation as much as possible to please the church in those times 1600, I still like the KJV to a point though.

Your claim is silenced (Church)

Matthew 18:17KJV
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 18:17NKJV
17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NIV
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NASB
17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17ESV
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[BeyondET]

Your claim is silenced (Church)

Matthew 18:17KJV
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 18:17NKJV
17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NIV
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NASB
17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17ESV
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

See you disliked what I said got the best of ya, you miss construed what I said. I didn't say the KJV was the only one.

 

[Truth7t7]

Pentecost is a harvest celebration, and a harvest of souls was gathered by God on that day. That is also when God called believers "the Church":

God called believers "The Church" before the day of Pentecost, just as the opinion shows

Matthew 18:17KJV
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 18:17NKJV
17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NIV
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17NASB
17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:17ESV
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[Zao is life]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

(The Words Of Jesus Christ)

Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

The church was the family of Jacob that went into Egypt, was delivered from bondage 400 years later, received the law, crossed the Jordan ..

The church = the people, a.k.a Israel, and the people were given the tabernacle of God so God could dwell among them and be their God, and they could be His people.

But the Old Testament temple was no longer the tabernacle of God from the moment of Christ's death and the veil in the temple was torn.

The New Testament temple is made up of the individual citizens of the church a.k.a Israel and was sanctified and consecrated to God on the Day of Pentecost.

"Behold what manner of love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God. Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him." 1 John 3:1.

 

[atpollard]

God called believers "The Church" before the day of Pentecost, just as the opinion shows

Matthew 18:17KJV
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

That's one witness ...

Matthew 18:16 [NKJV]
"But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'
... quoted from Deuteronomy 19:15 [NKJV] "by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established"​

 

[Enoch111]

Matthew 18:17KJV

You have a serious misunderstanding. The Lord was anticipating the formation of the Church when He gave these instructions. There was no Church at that time. So to claim that this passage means that the Church was already in existence is nonsense.

 

[marks]

Many falsely claim the Church was non-existant prior to the day of Pentecost, the scripture below teaches otherwise, Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order

(The Words Of Jesus Christ)

Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

"Church" being use to translate "called out ones" can refer various people. The Israelites who came out of Egypt were called the church in the wilderness, and in the wilderness they all died because of their unbelief. The were "called out" from Egypt into the wilderness, therefore, the church in the wilderness.

Jesus spoke of building His church to His disciples, and some had already been called out, and many more would be called out.

But these two groups themselves, ignoring for a moment those baptized into Christ on Pentecost, are not equivalent. Those in the wilderness did not believe, and died. Those called out in Christ are believers, saved.

That two groups are refered to as being called out does not make them the same group. You need specific identification, not a generic statement that only concerns one aspect of how the group came to be.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

The Church could not come into existence until the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost.

That is not true.

 

[Truth7t7]

You have a serious misunderstanding. The Lord was anticipating the formation of the Church when He gave these instructions. There was no Church at that time. So to claim that this passage means that the Church was already in existence is nonsense.

I Disagree, Jesus was giving instruction to Christian brethren, and the last resort was to take the concern to "The Church" that was in existence while Jesus spoke

Pentecost did nothing more than empower the Church that was already in existence

We Disagree
.

 

[quietthinker]

tell me, of all the yada yada you's guys engage, what is it the devil doesn't know or want you to know?