MARK 1:4 JOHN'S BAPTISM

[Doug]

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.


John's baptism was for the remission of sins, to cleanse Israel as priests in the coming Davidic kingdom, in which, Israel would reign with Christ on earth.

1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

John baptized with water according to the covenant and the law. Jesus would baptize not with water, but with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost came on the disciples at Pentecost according to the New Testament. The New Testament was only for Israel and Judah. By the Holy Spirit, Israel would be given a new heart and would be able to keep the law.

 

[bbyrd009]

Acts 2:39 Lexicon: "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

so I would adjust for that wadr, and also maybe embrace the "in the wilderness" part there a little more, just a conviction though. I also have probs at turning spirits into ghosts, a la Casper etc, might just be me though.

your end goal there seems to be "able to keep the law," which to me seems to contrast abolish all rule and authority, and some other Scriptures too?

 

[Doug]

Acts 2:39 Lexicon: "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

so I would adjust for that wadr, and also maybe embrace the "in the wilderness" part there a little more, just a conviction though. I also have probs at turning spirits into ghosts, a la Casper etc, might just be me though.

your end goal there seems to be "able to keep the law," which to me seems to contrast abolish all rule and authority, and some other Scriptures too?

Hello

The new covenant will enable Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth. Israel could never of itself keep the law required for the kingdom.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hello

The new covenant will enable Israel to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth. Israel could never of itself keep the law required for the kingdom.

well maybe, can't tell if you're asking or telling now, sorry...or how this addresses my post? Are you trying to lead here, maybe? I don't know. I mean I agree that keeping the law is the minimum standard, but seems to me not the same end goal as "abolish all rule and authority?"

I contest here bc those who profess the kingdom seem to want to be Anywhere But Here, on earth? We say we worship a Son of Man Who plainly prayed to stay, when His time was near, huh? Wth even is that lol, I mean if Jesus was s'posed to be the MC of the Death More Abundantly party one would be forgiven for believing that He would be like the last person on earth to be praying for more time?

 

[Doug]

well maybe, can't tell if you're asking or telling now, sorry...or how this addresses my post? Are you trying to lead here, maybe? I don't know. I mean I agree that keeping the law is the minimum standard, but seems to me not the same end goal as "abolish all rule and authority?"

I contest here bc those who profess the kingdom seem to want to be Anywhere But Here, on earth? We say we worship a Son of Man Who plainly prayed to stay, when His time was near, huh? Wth even is that lol, I mean if Jesus was s'posed to be the MC of the Death More Abundantly party one would be forgiven for believing that He would be like the last person on earth to be praying for more time?

Hi

Sorry....guess I didn't understand your statement about end goal

 

[101G]

addressing the OP only,
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God".

what about the sins of the future?

PICJAG.

 

[Doug]

addressing the OP only,
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God".

what about the sins of the future?

PICJAG.

Hi
I understand that the sins of the past were those sins under the old covenant. God forgave sins by sacrifices because they were based on the blood of Christ even though it was in the future.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Verse 26 applies to this time which would include the future

 

[101G]

Hi
I understand that the sins of the past were those sins under the old covenant. God forgave sins by sacrifices because they were based on the blood of Christ even though it was in the future.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Verse 26 applies to this time which would include the future

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

which sins, not sin, but sin(s) are these?.

PICJAG.

 

[Doug]

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

which sins, not sin, but sin(s) are these?.

PICJAG.

Hi
This is a corporate confession of sin, sins of the nation. 1 John is written to Israel. But also, under the covenant to be forgiven they had to forgive.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi

Sorry....guess I didn't understand your statement about end goal

ah, something about the below is just hitting me funny maybe,

By the Holy Spirit, Israel would be given a new heart and would be able to keep the law.

have to think how to say it tho...um, I might have said "and be able to love one another" maybe rather than "keep the law," something like that. Which I guess the way I pound on keeping the law this will drive someone nuts, but the point there might be that keeping the law should go without saying imo, iow I can screw my neighbor and still be keeping the law right

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

well maybe, can't tell if you're asking or telling now, sorry...or how this addresses my post? Are you trying to lead here, maybe? I don't know. I mean I agree that keeping the law is the minimum standard, but seems to me not the same end goal as "abolish all rule and authority?"

I contest here bc those who profess the kingdom seem to want to be Anywhere But Here, on earth? We say we worship a Son of Man Who plainly prayed to stay, when His time was near, huh? Wth even is that lol, I mean if Jesus was s'posed to be the MC of the Death More Abundantly party one would be forgiven for believing that He would be like the last person on earth to be praying for more time?

Forgive me, bbyrd, but you are pretty confused. If you would read and study the word more diligently perhaps the Lord would help you to understand. Jesus wasn't praying to have more time on the earth. He was clearly perturbed by the sins of the people and the conditions in the Roman Empire must have been in stark contrast to heaven. He was praying because He dreaded the suffering He would have to bear at the hands of sinners. (see Luke 22:42 and John 18:11 among other passages) Even though He was and is God, He was displaying His mortality as a man, in front of His followers. Any human would fear being tortured to death as He would be, but it also says that God the Father sent an angel who strengthened Him to face it bravely. (Luke 22:43).

 

[bbyrd009]

He was praying because He dreaded the suffering He would have to bear at the hands of sinners.

"God" dreading a moments pain, ok LC, go with that, and ignore the inconsistency for now if you like, but I suggest that there are more insights to be gained there ok. Any momentary pain was completely irrelevant to Jesus I bet
as your second ref even indicates imo

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

"God" dreading a moments pain, ok LC, go with that, and ignore the inconsistency for now if you like, but I suggest that there are more insights to be gained there ok. Any momentary pain was completely irrelevant to Jesus I bet
as your second ref even indicates imo

I think it likely that the pain to His soul and spirit was much worse for Him than the physical pain. He cried out from the Cross, "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani." ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"-->Matthew 27:46) That was a quote from Psalm 22:1--a messianic Psalm of David's who was obviously prophesying of the suffering of his descendant, Jesus. Some have said that David was speaking of his own suffering but that cannot be as there is no record of David ever suffering the "piercing" of his hands and feet as in Psalm 22:16. It is clear that He was in an agony of His spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think it likely that the pain to His soul and spirit was much worse for Him than the physical pain. He cried out from the Cross, "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani." ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"-->Matthew 27:46) That was a quote from Psalm 22:1--a messianic Psalm of David's who was obviously prophesying of the suffering of his descendant, Jesus. Some have said that David was speaking of his own suffering but that cannot be as there is no record of David ever suffering the "piercing" of his hands and feet as in Psalm 22:16. It is clear that He was in an agony of His spirit.

Well, so you say, but I suggest that Jesus was speaking from a script meant for posterity, not for effect, like we like to read. Agony of spirit is an emotional upheaval experienced by the ego, and imo Jesus said several things that make that unlikely, even though I understand that is the popular interpretation. So I can't say you're wrong, but at the same time that does not really comport with some other statements imo

 

[Doug]

ah, something about the below is just hitting me funny maybe,
have to think how to say it tho...um, I might have said "and be able to love one another" maybe rather than "keep the law," something like that. Which I guess the way I pound on keeping the law this will drive someone nuts, but the point there might be that keeping the law should go without saying imo, iow I can screw my neighbor and still be keeping the law right

Hi
But 1 John says that is one of the requirements under their covenant.....they had to love one another to enter the kingdom on earth.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Well, so you say, but I suggest that Jesus was speaking from a script meant for posterity, not for effect, like we like to read. Agony of spirit is an emotional upheaval experienced by the ego, and imo Jesus said several things that make that unlikely, even though I understand that is the popular interpretation. So I can't say you're wrong, but at the same time that does not really comport with some other statements imo

bbyrd: "Agony of spirit is an emotional upheaval experienced by the ego, and imo Jesus said several things that make that unlikely..."

So you say.

But, I would like to point out that in Gethsemane, Jesus, in contemplating what was to come, "...took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee and began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, 'My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with Me.' Going a little farther, He fell facedown and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will'.” Matthew 26:37-39

He calls it plainly, "this cup of suffering" in Luke 22:42.

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd: "Agony of spirit is an emotional upheaval experienced by the ego, and imo Jesus said several things that make that unlikely..."

So you say.

But, I would like to point out that in Gethsemane, Jesus, in contemplating what was to come, "...took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee and began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, 'My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with Me.' Going a little farther, He fell facedown and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will'.” Matthew 26:37-39

He calls it plainly, "this cup of suffering" in Luke 22:42.

Yes, not denying the cover story is solid, ok, yes. Now pretend you don't believe that and go find the others maybe, if you want to? You wanted to find something, and so you found it right. I mean did Jesus even have a soul? No, He was a soul, right? ...and he became a living soul. But maybe you believe He had a soul, so here is Jesus declaring the death of His soul.

Also, He knows what's coming, right, but he has a couple Apostles "keep watch for Him?" What are they supposed to keep watch for, do you think? Whatever you guess, you will adjust your guess after you have broken up Nehushtan, is about the only way I know to say it LC. And if you are still seeking immortality and going up to heaven after you have died you won't, I guess. You will find what you seek iow

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yes, not denying the cover story is solid, ok, yes. Now pretend you don't believe that and go find the others maybe, if you want to? You wanted to find something, and so you found it right. I mean did Jesus even have a soul? No, He was a soul, right? ...and he became a living soul. But maybe you believe He had a soul, so here is Jesus declaring the death of His soul.

I don't think He was literally saying that His soul was dying--more that His soul was greatly saddened by what lay ahead. He said that we should fear the one [God] who could destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. Perhaps He was anticipating the spiritual agony of seeing the suffering and hopeless souls in the place of punishment (hades--likely a different place from the Lake of Fire--Gehenna)? (see 1Peter 3:18-20) The account of "the other Lazarus" in Luke 16, rings true to me--almost as if Jesus had been there to see the "rich man" suffering in the flames.

Also, He knows what's coming, right, but he has a couple Apostles "keep watch for Him?" What are they supposed to keep watch for, do you think? Whatever you guess, you will adjust your guess after you have broken up Nehushtan, is about the only way I know to say it LC. And if you are still seeking immortality and going up to heaven after you have died you won't, I guess. You will find what you seek iow

I think He was chiding His disciples (and friends), Peter, John and James, for sleeping while He was going through such agony of soul and spirit--He had asked them to stay awake with Him. To "watch" meant to stay awake. What kind of friends were they? And in your reference to "Nehushtan", are you calling me an idolator then, bbyrd?

 

[Nancy]

I don't think He was literally saying that His soul was dying--more that His soul was greatly saddened by what lay ahead. He said that we should fear the one [God] who could destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. Perhaps He was anticipating the spiritual agony of seeing the suffering and hopeless souls in the place of punishment (hades--likely a different place from the Lake of Fire--Gehenna)? (see 1Peter 3:18-20) The account of "the other Lazarus" in Luke 16, rings true to me--almost as if Jesus had been there to see the "rich man" suffering in the flames.



I think He was chiding His disciples (and friends), Peter, John and James, for sleeping while He was going through such agony of soul and spirit. To "watch" meant to stay awake. What kind of friends were they? And in your reference to "Nehushtan", are you calling me an idolator then, bbyrd?

I think @bbyrd009 is speaking of his "death more abundantly" thing, which I still do not quite grasp, lol.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I think @bbyrd009 is speaking of his "death more abundantly" thing, which I still do not quite grasp, lol.

bbyrd reminds me of a few atheists I have known who think that they will be able to analyze the brains of believers. I suspect that when bbyrd mocks the faith of believers by calling it "death more abundantly" that is his way of insulting them without them catching on. It apparently reinforces his notion of being superior. He is undoubtedly lost (by his own admission) and will likely stay that way unless he somehow gets a dose of humility. Interestingly, he often obliquely accuses most others of being arrogant.