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Mary, Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Josho, Jun 21, 2020.

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  1. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Hmmm, well I have been thinking of Catholic doctrine on Mary lately and the "hail Mary." In this thread we will look at the importance of Mary's role in the Bible, and the Catholic doctrine on Mary and why do Catholics say hail Mary's, if we read Luke 1:28 in the Bible we find out Angel Gabriel said to Mary Mother of Jesus "Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

    A real interesting view point though lately I have seen though from Father Rob Galea, is about loving Jesus the way Mary did, having a close relationship with Jesus the way Mary did, and I think that is quite a wonderful viewpoint, because when we think about it Mary the mother of Christ Jesus would have had such a close relationship with Christ Jesus being the mother of Jesus, it was a mother-son relationship and loving mothers absolutely love and care for their children.

    And when we read Luke chapter one we learn that Mary was "thou that art highly favoured" we also learn that Angel Gabriel pretty much said hail Mary. "Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God."

    While God is higher than Mary, she still is a very important woman and plays a very important role in the Bible and many protestants push that fact aside.

    She was chosen to give birth to Jesus, she was chosen to give birth to the Son of God, who entered this world to fulfill the law, to make the new covenant of "Grace", to be the ultimate sacrifice, so that whoever believes in Him shall not die but live an eternal life. Jesus Christ is Lord God, that walked the earth in human flesh, and He entered the world through Virgin Mary, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    Luke 1:26-31

    26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

    27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

    28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

    29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

    30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

    31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
     
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  2. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hi Josho,
    Indeed, a perfect maternal love. Consider too, Jesus' perfect filial love for Mary!

    And He gives her to us, at the foot of the cross.

    Peace be with you!
     
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  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I do agree and, if it was one thing I took from Catholicism, it was the very fact that the bible tells us she is blessed among women, and should be honored as such.
    God found much favor with her.
    I just do not pray to anyone BUT God through Christ.
    God Bless
     
  4. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I find the habit of praying to saints or Mary, or your grandmother a disturbing doctrine. They are not our mediator between God and us. Only Jesus is.
     
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  5. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Amen, totally agree.
     
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  6. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    John 19:25-27

    "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home."

    Hmm thanks for pointing that out.

    "And He gives her to us, at the foot of the cross."

    He gave her to the disciple as a mother at the foot of the cross. Lol I have never actually noticed that detail in there and have read the NT a number of times through.
     
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  7. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    The way I see this, is that Jesus was assigning responsibility for the care of Mary to John.

    John took her to live with him in Ephesus, where she died at age 65 and was buried at the Church of Mary, the church where the Council of Ephesus was held.

    Mary didn't seem to be all that important in the early church, and in Jerome's history of "The Lives of the Saints" covering the history of over 200 saints, she wasn't even mentioned.
     
  8. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    The way I see it, is Catholics ask Mary and some other Saints to pray for us from Heaven.

    As you are well aware some of us on these forums believe the saints are already in Heaven, I believe the Saints and Born Again Christians who have passed away here on earth are already in Heaven.

    If we look at the 2nd half of the "Hail Mary"

    "Holy Mary Mother of God,

    pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
    "

    It's a request for Mary Mother of the Lord Jesus to pray for us.
     
  9. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    That is interesting considering she was chosen to be the mother of Jesus.
     
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  10. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    I also believe Mary Mother of Jesus is the woman mentioned in Revelation 12. Revelation 12 is also very symbolic.

    The Woman - Mary, The Child - Jesus, The Dragon - Satan

    I will talk more on that one tomorrow.
     
  11. 2 Chr. 34:19

    2 Chr. 34:19 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 3:33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?”
    34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
     
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  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    well, but i mean prayer to Mary, Josho? Big diff eh
    the literal acct is a good start, but the symbolic acct will open doors ok
     
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  13. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    Hah! I knew you would jump in.

    I guess we can say asking Mary to pray for us from Heaven is a Catholic's equivalent to "Can you please pray for me brother byyrd?"

    A Catholic would know better than me about it though, so I am happy to be corrected.

    I have heard your belief though on Saints in Heaven before, I do believe Saints and Born again believers who passed away on this earth are already in Heaven though.
     
  14. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it was because she was female. There were no females in Jerome’s history.
     
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  15. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    But Josho, you know that is not Scripture. So what truth is there in it? Read Matthew 6 if you want to know who Jesus said to pray to. Mary can't hear our prayers, let alone our dead relatives.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

    Catholics call Mary the Mediatrix.
     
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  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    the diff being imo that Mary is dead, and i am alive, so prayers to Mary amt to speaking with the dead, should be pretty obvious that thats nothing close to "Christian"
    you are welcome to believe that, but the Bible says No one has ever gone up to heaven, the kingdom of heaven is within you, etc, you and your sons will be here with me, I came that you might have life, so im not sure how you would be able to justify the pov wadr

    the very etymology of the name "Mary" should give one with that pov pause imo?
    The amazing name Mary: meaning and etymology
    so, not even "Mary" to begin with i guess,
    The amazing name Miriam: meaning and etymology
    and why would she be "troubled," do you think
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    This is where the Hail Mary was taken from, and it is a Catholic site:

    "1. Hail Mary, full of Grace Luke 1:28 (Hail, full of Grace) The Angel Gabriel greets Mary with very respectful greeting used for royalty. The text doesn’t say “Mary” after Hail but it is implied. Gabriel then proclaims Mary full of Grace (full of God’s own life and love)
    2. The Lord is with You Luke 1:28 (The Lord is with you) This is word for word. The Angel Gabriel said that the Lord is with Mary; she is full of his Grace, his own life. h
    3. Blessed are you among Women Luke 1:41 (Blessed are you among women) Elizabeth is filled with the Holy Spirit; she is inspired by the 3rd person of the Blessed Trinity to proclaim that Mary is the most blessed among all women.
    4. And Blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Luke 1:42 (and blessed is the fruit of your womb) Elizabeth still inspired by the Holy Spirit proclaims that the fruit of Mary’s womb, the developing Jesus, is blessed. The text doesn’t say “Jesus” after womb, but it is implied, the fruit of her womb is Jesus.
    5. Holy Mary, Mother of God Luke 1:43 (And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?) Mary is full of God’s grace; this would make her holy. Mary is the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity. Since Jesus is God this makes her the mother of God. She is the mother of the God-Man Jesus, not the mother of the Trinity.
    6. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death James 5:16 (Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects) St. James tells Christians to pray for one another. All the baptized are members of the body of Christ (1Cor 12:12-14), therefore it is right to pray for other members of the body. James goes on to say that the prayers of the righteous have great power. What human (other then Jesus) is more righteous then the Blessed Mother. Though she is in heaven she still hears the prayers of her children on Earth and intercedes for them."

    And, even though I know that Christ IS our direct line to the throne of God and He is our only mediator... "...pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death...", they use this scripture to justify asking Mary to pray for them - James 5:16.
    The rest of the prayer is scriptural.

    I see a big difference between "pray for" and "pray to"...we, Christians are told to pray for one another!

    I will honor Mary's name as I think we should, but I would NEVER pray TO her. :)
     
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  18. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Jame 5:16 are for us to pray for one another while we are alive, not dead. LOL
     
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  19. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
  20. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Hi Josho
    I am a wee bit perplexed.
    ( therefore I will tag @Angelina and @Heart2Soul ...who are also Staff Members here on the site, so they can slap me down if I am doing wrong and tell me to get back in my box. )

    I am asking myself why it is that a staff member , who I thought had accepted that position on here - to be a balance when two members are at loggerheads ...and to help to bring a peaceful atmosphere to the site...

    So my question is...Why are you pushing the Mary thing..which I cannot find is either encouraged or taught in the bible at all?
    Have you not right here started a thread that very well could bring anger, division and conflict.
    BreadOfLife will argue his catholic point , but in all my years here I don't remember seeing him START a catholic thread!

    I have noticed over the last month that you have posted on this subject a few times, yet I don't remember you ever making a point of it before.:oops:

    Anything that draws our eyes away from The Father and His Son, is 'another- gospel'.

    We ALL have a subject or a personally held belief, or doctrine...but most of us, if we know it will be controversial we 'choose' to hold it close to our chest and not make an issue of it.

    So, I have to say I am surprised to see pushing this point...very nicely, and very politely , but nevertheless you are still pushing it.
    I really hope it does not turn into a nasty thread , where people speak strongly rather than polity and risk getting themselves suspended for doing so.

    For myself I must say that I am disappointed. :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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