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MATTHEW 19:27 WHAT SHALL WE HAVE?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Doug, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

    19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


    Jesus is speaking of the prophetic, kingdom of heaven on earth, which shall be given to Israel. Jesus will sit on his throne, to rule over his kingdom; the twelve disciples will rule with him.

    19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

    19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

    Jesus is saying that the last in earthly position, as were the apostles, would be first in the kingdom. 1 Corinthians 4:9
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    I believe scripture teaches the restoration of Israel takes place in the resurrection of Israel (believers) on the last day into the New Heavens and Earth. Scripture support if interested.
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Yes please provide the scripture you have in mind
    Thanks
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    ““To him who overcomes will I grant to sit with Me on My throne [future], as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne [presently in heaven]. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”” (Revelation 3:21–22)

    “And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28)

    “Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His face the earth and the heavens fled away, and no place was found for them.” (Revelation 20:11)

    ““When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.” (Matthew 25:31)
     
  5. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    I think that it is clear in Matthew 19:28 the regeneration occurs when Jesus comes and establishes his kingdom.


    Below is the sequence of events as far as I understand them.

    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6


    The thousand year reign is the regeneration of Israel and precedes the new heaven and earth.


    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:7

    And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Revelation 20:8

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    There is no "Millennium". The Kingdom is spiritual and here now. And it reaches completion in the resurrection (restoration) of Israel (believers in Christ) from the dead on the last day into the New Heavens and Earth.
     
  7. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    "There is no millennium" seems to be at odds with this verse:
    Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    There are several problems with this view. One for now is; the 1000 years are not the Kingdom, they are the binding of Satan from deceiving the nations (gentiles) during the time of the gentiles. Satan attacks the Kingdom when loosed.
     
  9. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Dave
    Please tell me, what is the gospel?
    How do we have eternal life in heaven?
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    If you realize the Kingdom is spiritual and will never be physical, and that it arrived when Jesus first preached it, then Revelation 20 will align with the rest of scripture. Jesus said; “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

    So the binding of Satan began with the first advent and ends shortly before the second advent. Here's a simple guide for understanding Revelation 20.

    The angel = Greek for messenger

    the chain = the message (gospel); The gospel sent to the whole world (nations).

    the 1000 years = Satan bound from deceiving the elect. The saints rule over him. the 1000 years end = Satan loosed.

    Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

    Satan loosed = the Post Christian era (we now live in = immanent return of Christ) the gospel message falls on deaf ears, the world assails the Church from all quarters ushering in the end.

    “Jesus said, “This voice has not come for my benefit but for yours. Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.” (John 12:30–31)

    So in essence, Revelation 20 is a panorama of the entire New Covenant era. Not a physical kingdom of the future.
     
  11. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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  12. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Dave
    Could you please tell me how we are saved....how do we go to heaven
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Christ paid for the sins of all who believe him by grace. Had he not died especially for you, you could not believe in any true sense.
     
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  14. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Dave
    Could you please tell me how we are saved....how do we go to heaven
     
  15. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Sorry I asked again I didn't see your response on my end
    Good, now I can call you brother
    That is the main thing here....we can exchange views on the topics we discuss, but they are secondary issues
    Just wanted to clarify that
    Thanks
     
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  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    God arbitrarily chose to save as many as his justice and wrath would allow. Christ paid for their sins on the cross. Since they are justified by his blood, God can remain good and save them instead of punishing them. These hear and believe the gospel through being born again and repenting. So salvation is by grace from start to finish.
     
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  17. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Hello brother
    You said: Jesus said; “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

    I understand, as of now, that this verse is saying, Jesus is not casting out demons by the kingdom of this world, the god of this world being Satan, but by the kingdom of God, which was in the midst of them at the present time; Jesus is the kingdom of God in a sense. 2 Corinthians 4:4 Luke 17:21 Matthew 12:26 Mark 3:26

    You said: So the binding of Satan began with the first advent and ends shortly before the second advent. Here's a simple guide for understanding Revelation 20.

    I do not see Satan being bound at this stage by this, because Satan was still active later on. Luke 22:31 Acts 5:3 2 Corinthians 2:11 Satan is not bound until Revelation 20:2

    You said:
    The angel = Greek for messenger
    I agree with this definition of an angel.

    You said: the chain = the message (gospel); The gospel sent to the whole world (nations).

    They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Matthew 24:14

    You said: the 1000 years = Satan bound from deceiving the elect. The saints rule over him. the 1000 years end = Satan loosed.

    Satan was deceiving the nations who entered into the kingdom, not the elect, according to Revelation 20:3 The saints reigned with Christ for a thousand years Revelation 20:4 After a thousand years Satan was loosed Revelation 20:3

    You said: Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

    The kingdom is given to the saints Daniel 7:18 Revelation 5:10 Luke 22:30 Revelation 20:4
    Satan, at the end of the thousand years, attacks by deceiving the nations to gather to battle Revelation 20:8 and surrounds the saints in Jerusalem Revelation 20:9 and Satan is cast into the lake of fire Revelation 20:10
     
  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Dave,
    What do you actually gain by denying what God affirms, and affirming what God rejects? Do you realize that you have voluntarily become a tool of Satan for promoting false doctrine?
    If you mean that there will be a redeemed and restored kingdom of Israel on earth after Christ -- beginning with the Millennium -- then fine. But the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT given to Israel. It belongs to God and Christ.

    There is indeed a Millennium, and the sequence of events according to Scripture is as follows:
    1. The Second Coming of Christ
    2. The battle of Armageddon. (The Antichrist and the False Prophet in the Lake of Fire)
    3. The ingathering of all the Jews worldwide to Israel
    4. The redemption of 1/3rd of all the Jews and the restoration of Israel
    5. The establishment of the Millennial Kingdom (1,000 years)
    6. The judgment of the nations (the sheep and the goats)
    7. Satan released after 1,000 years
    8. The battle of Gog and Magog
    9. Satan cast into the Lake of Fire
    10. The Great White Throne Judgment
    11. The supernatural burning up of the earth and atmosphere
    12. The establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth
    13. The descent of the New Jerusalem to become a heavenly body
    14. The handing over of the Kingdom of God to the Father by Christ.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

    “And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

    “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

    “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

    “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

    “Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

    “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

    “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

    “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

    “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

    “because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

    “Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

    “He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

    When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

    “for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

    “And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

    “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

    “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

    “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

    “Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

    “Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

    “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

    “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

    “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

    “because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

    “Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

    “He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

    When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

    “for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
     
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