matthias or paul

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gregg

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did Jesus ordain the picking of mattias or were the eleven on thier own?i believe paul as being the 12th.Jesus told the 11 to go wait till , they were filled and nothing else.it's hard to be lead by the spirit without the HG. whats your thoughts church? :rolleyes: they saw a problem and tried to fix it without direction. :D
 

aspen

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Paul called himself an Apostle, so I usually go with that
 

veteran

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Acts 1:22-26
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that He was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of His resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, Which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two Thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
(KJV)

Matthias was the 12th Apostle that replaced Judas Iscariot.

Apostle Paul was the 13th, which is pretty revealing for those who understand there's technically 13 tribes of Israel and not just 12.


 

Goinheix

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Jesus had many disciples. He choose 12 and name them Apostles. But He had way too many followers and many disciples.

By choosing the 12 and name them Apostles, Jesus never did mean that it has to be always 12, that in case of one dead it has to be sustituted by another Apostle.

The maing condition for being an Apostle is to be eye witness of Jesus ministery. That makes impossible to keep subtituting the dead Apostles for new Apostles.

It was not any need or instruction to keep the number of Apostles in 12. It could be 11 or 100.

Mathias was an Apostele, and Paul was also Apostle. That means that both; Mathias and Paul did eye witness the ministery of Jesus.
 

veteran

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Jesus had many disciples. He choose 12 and name them Apostles. But He had way too many followers and many disciples.

By choosing the 12 and name them Apostles, Jesus never did mean that it has to be always 12, that in case of one dead it has to be sustituted by another Apostle.

The maing condition for being an Apostle is to be eye witness of Jesus ministery. That makes impossible to keep subtituting the dead Apostles for new Apostles.

It was not any need or instruction to keep the number of Apostles in 12. It could be 11 or 100.

Mathias was an Apostele, and Paul was also Apostle. That means that both; Mathias and Paul did eye witness the ministery of Jesus.

You're wrong...

Matt 19:27-28
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(KJV)

Paul did not witness Christ's Ministry and crucifixion, for he was not among the 12 whom Jesus first chose to follow Him. Because the 12 Apostles are to sit upon 12 thrones in Christ's future Kingdom judging over the 12 tribes of Israel, that is a specific ordaining for those 12 Apostles, and not any other. That is basic Bible 101.

 

Goinheix

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You're wrong...

Matt 19:27-28
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(KJV)

Paul did not witness Christ's Ministry and crucifixion, for he was not among the 12 whom Jesus first chose to follow Him. Because the 12 Apostles are to sit upon 12 thrones in Christ's future Kingdom judging over the 12 tribes of Israel, that is a specific ordaining for those 12 Apostles, and not any other. That is basic Bible 101.


Brither..I will apreciate if you tell me what is Bible101?

It is true that 12 Apostles will seat in 12 thrones. Honestly I was not concidering that point. We know of 11 of them, and have a question concerning the 12th. I can not be sure who will be that 12th Apostle.

What I know is that beside the 12 Apostles, it was more Apostles as Paul and Mathias. 11 plus Mathias plus Paul overpass the 12. It was more than 12 and more tha 13. It was many persons that despite not being of the 12, were Apostles.

Paul was not part of the disciples of Jesus, neither James or Juda. Luke and Lark where not part of the 12. But Luke and Mark were disciples and did witness the ministery as disciples. James and Juda also did witness the ministery, not as 12 or as disciples, but did witnesses. By witnes I mean that they saw it; they were there; no body told them. Paul was apharisee, a young pharisee that probaly did witness the ministery. There is a lot of indication - not irrefutable truth but inmdication - that Paul did see and lisent to Jesus in person.
 

IanLC

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Matthias worked in the capacity of an apostle but he carried the title of Elder. Paul was an apostle in almost evry since of the word of God.