Megachurches

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Josho

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Here's a well written article by Tim Keller,

Tim Keller explains the problem with Megachurches

Megachurches "are poor places for formation and pastoral care", says respected pastor Tim Keller.

The founder of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City said this shortcoming was "due to their size" and went as far as to say that it is a "deadly problem" for Christians.

Keller explained his issues with megachurches in a lengthy post on his Facebook page in which he said that these problems and others were the reason he had made the intentional decision to split his own megachurch into separate congregations rather than pass it on to a single successor.

After his retirement as senior pastor in 2017, Redeemer was divided into three congregations. The network has since grown to five separate churches located around New York City.

In the detailed Facebook post, Keller said it was never his intention "to build one megachurch" but instead create a "movement of the gospel" that would lead to the "multiplication of generative churches" and "diverse leaders".

He said that there could be some benefits to megachurches, such as being able to offer additional ministries like counseling centers and seminaries, but he said there were also problems "because megachurches have some design deficits".

"In general, they are poor places for formation and pastoral care due to their size. In our current cultural moment that is a deadly problem because Christians are being more formed by social media than local Christian community," he said.

"We need thick communities and the size of our churches factor into that."

He pointed to limitations around how invested church members could be in the immediate neighborhood of the church.

"Megachurches tend to draw people from great distances who then are not geographically close enough to take part in community building, discipleship, and local ministry to the neighborhood of the church," he said.

"It is harder for them to be other-focused in the local area," he said.


Keller said it would be more beneficial to have "10 churches of 400" people scattered around the city "rather than one church of 4,000 in the middle of it".

"Now, while still having the resources of a megachurch, through their size and model, they can be more nimble to the needs of those who attend and the surrounding area," he said.

Keller also explained some of the problems that can arise for both the congregation and the pastor of a megachurch.

He said that because megachurches grow large under their founder, they are "not usually sustained" when they are passed on to one successor.

For the successor too, it can be challenging because they are "always excessively and sometimes harshly compared in every way to the founder".


"It's lose-lose for them and the movement," he said.

Then there is the danger of the congregation forming an unhealthy attachment to the founding pastor.

"Because megachurches tend to grow fast under a founder, they usually depend too much on the gifts and personality of that founder so the sooner that addictive dependence is broken, the better," he said.

But Keller also warned that there were temptations for the megachurch pastor too: "Because often the founder comes to see the church as their personal possession - and an extension of their personality and self-image, they often never want to leave, nor do they know how to well. It is good to leave sooner rather than later as a spiritual discipline."


Tim Keller explains the problem with megachurches
 

Josho

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Here's a well written article by Tim Keller,

Tim Keller explains the problem with Megachurches

Megachurches "are poor places for formation and pastoral care", says respected pastor Tim Keller.

The founder of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City said this shortcoming was "due to their size" and went as far as to say that it is a "deadly problem" for Christians.

Keller explained his issues with megachurches in a lengthy post on his Facebook page in which he said that these problems and others were the reason he had made the intentional decision to split his own megachurch into separate congregations rather than pass it on to a single successor.

After his retirement as senior pastor in 2017, Redeemer was divided into three congregations. The network has since grown to five separate churches located around New York City.

In the detailed Facebook post, Keller said it was never his intention "to build one megachurch" but instead create a "movement of the gospel" that would lead to the "multiplication of generative churches" and "diverse leaders".

He said that there could be some benefits to megachurches, such as being able to offer additional ministries like counseling centers and seminaries, but he said there were also problems "because megachurches have some design deficits".

"In general, they are poor places for formation and pastoral care due to their size. In our current cultural moment that is a deadly problem because Christians are being more formed by social media than local Christian community," he said.

"We need thick communities and the size of our churches factor into that."

He pointed to limitations around how invested church members could be in the immediate neighborhood of the church.

"Megachurches tend to draw people from great distances who then are not geographically close enough to take part in community building, discipleship, and local ministry to the neighborhood of the church," he said.

"It is harder for them to be other-focused in the local area," he said.


Keller said it would be more beneficial to have "10 churches of 400" people scattered around the city "rather than one church of 4,000 in the middle of it".

"Now, while still having the resources of a megachurch, through their size and model, they can be more nimble to the needs of those who attend and the surrounding area," he said.

Keller also explained some of the problems that can arise for both the congregation and the pastor of a megachurch.

He said that because megachurches grow large under their founder, they are "not usually sustained" when they are passed on to one successor.

For the successor too, it can be challenging because they are "always excessively and sometimes harshly compared in every way to the founder".


"It's lose-lose for them and the movement," he said.

Then there is the danger of the congregation forming an unhealthy attachment to the founding pastor.

"Because megachurches tend to grow fast under a founder, they usually depend too much on the gifts and personality of that founder so the sooner that addictive dependence is broken, the better," he said.

But Keller also warned that there were temptations for the megachurch pastor too: "Because often the founder comes to see the church as their personal possession - and an extension of their personality and self-image, they often never want to leave, nor do they know how to well. It is good to leave sooner rather than later as a spiritual discipline."


Tim Keller explains the problem with megachurches

Though I would say 400 is still probably too big IMHO, it should probably be the size where everybody knows each other, or knows most of the people.
 

Angelina

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I think that mega churches create a culture of always needing finances to support those big ideas that supposedly sustain and give opportunity for missionay and ministry for a certain few...
 

Truman

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My only real church family grew from a handful of us to about a hundred and lasted for about 5 years. I've come to believe that some fellowships have a life-expectancy.
 
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farouk

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My only real church family grew from a handful of us to about a hundred and lasted for about 5 years. I've come to believe that some fellowships have a life-expectancy.
@Truman Ppl do need Biblical maturity in their growth so that it lasts. 2 Peter 3.18 says: '...Grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ'.
 

Truman

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@Truman Well, leaving aside the large crowds, observing Acts 2.42 can be a real blessing: "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."
We did that sort of thing for years. Today, I have difficulty walking down the stairs. These forums get me by.
 
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Truman

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I can understand the difficulty of gathering if there are serious mobility issues.

Great you have fellowship memories, anyway.
I don't believe He's finished with me. My health says otherwise, but He's God of my health.
He's Lord of my life, and He's never abandoned me. I rest in that.
 

farouk

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I don't believe He's finished with me. My health says otherwise, but He's God of my health.
He's Lord of my life, and He's never abandoned me. I rest in that.
Philippians 1.6 says: "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ'. I love that verse (and that Epistle, also....)
 

amigo de christo

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He Who Began A Good Work
Speaking about social club mega churches , let us see where this has all led .
Take a peek at this my friend . Ever wonder why , for so long i have begged and pleaded
unto all to return to bibles and learn that JESUS .
Paul warned of a time that would come when they would no longer endure SOUND doctrine .
WELL when only two percent of even professing Christains hold a biblical word view . ID SAY WE IN THEM DAYS .
As for me , i refuse the social club churches and will stand on Christ and point to bible doctrine . NO matter the cost .
 

amigo de christo

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I don't believe He's finished with me. My health says otherwise, but He's God of my health.
He's Lord of my life, and He's never abandoned me. I rest in that.
So long as their is breath in those lungs , POINT TO THE GLORIOUS LORD . The only reason we remain here
after being saved IS TO POINT TO CHRIST , IS TO FEED the PEOPLES biblcal doctrine , TILL one day all the lambs
are HOME with CHRIST . SO armour up my friend . So long as you have breath , POINT TO THE LORD and remind
of all His teachings .
 

dev553344

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We did that sort of thing for years. Today, I have difficulty walking down the stairs. These forums get me by.
Here too. I watch daily Mass for my spiritual rejuvenation.
 
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dev553344

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Here's a well written article by Tim Keller,

Tim Keller explains the problem with Megachurches

Megachurches "are poor places for formation and pastoral care", says respected pastor Tim Keller.

The founder of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City said this shortcoming was "due to their size" and went as far as to say that it is a "deadly problem" for Christians.

Keller explained his issues with megachurches in a lengthy post on his Facebook page in which he said that these problems and others were the reason he had made the intentional decision to split his own megachurch into separate congregations rather than pass it on to a single successor.

After his retirement as senior pastor in 2017, Redeemer was divided into three congregations. The network has since grown to five separate churches located around New York City.

In the detailed Facebook post, Keller said it was never his intention "to build one megachurch" but instead create a "movement of the gospel" that would lead to the "multiplication of generative churches" and "diverse leaders".

He said that there could be some benefits to megachurches, such as being able to offer additional ministries like counseling centers and seminaries, but he said there were also problems "because megachurches have some design deficits".

"In general, they are poor places for formation and pastoral care due to their size. In our current cultural moment that is a deadly problem because Christians are being more formed by social media than local Christian community," he said.

"We need thick communities and the size of our churches factor into that."

He pointed to limitations around how invested church members could be in the immediate neighborhood of the church.

"Megachurches tend to draw people from great distances who then are not geographically close enough to take part in community building, discipleship, and local ministry to the neighborhood of the church," he said.

"It is harder for them to be other-focused in the local area," he said.


Keller said it would be more beneficial to have "10 churches of 400" people scattered around the city "rather than one church of 4,000 in the middle of it".

"Now, while still having the resources of a megachurch, through their size and model, they can be more nimble to the needs of those who attend and the surrounding area," he said.

Keller also explained some of the problems that can arise for both the congregation and the pastor of a megachurch.

He said that because megachurches grow large under their founder, they are "not usually sustained" when they are passed on to one successor.

For the successor too, it can be challenging because they are "always excessively and sometimes harshly compared in every way to the founder".


"It's lose-lose for them and the movement," he said.

Then there is the danger of the congregation forming an unhealthy attachment to the founding pastor.

"Because megachurches tend to grow fast under a founder, they usually depend too much on the gifts and personality of that founder so the sooner that addictive dependence is broken, the better," he said.

But Keller also warned that there were temptations for the megachurch pastor too: "Because often the founder comes to see the church as their personal possession - and an extension of their personality and self-image, they often never want to leave, nor do they know how to well. It is good to leave sooner rather than later as a spiritual discipline."


Tim Keller explains the problem with megachurches
Seems like he missed the point. A church is supposed to be organized with Bishops and Deacons that look over the smaller areas they're in charge of. The apostles are over all the churches. Mormons do that and they do well in their organization. I have my problems with the Mormon church, but they followed the bible organization set out in 1 Timothy 3:2-12
 
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marks

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But Keller also warned that there were temptations for the megachurch pastor too:
The first church fellowships were megachurches. 10,000 people or more gathered daily at the temple. In Antioch, Paul and Barnabas and others "taught a considerable multitude" for a year. "considerable multitude" is the "multitudes" who came to Jesus, only a lot more of them. And when Paul and Barnabas left Antioch, there is no reason to think the church just fell apart, or shrank or something. All we know as a fact is that it was in fact a megachurch.

Much love!