IntroductionThere are literal trees in the Garden. But read on and you will see there is more. There are symbolic trees too. These trees are scattered throughout the word, from Genesis to Revelation, to send us a message for today. We will begin in Mark 7:28 where Jesus begins to open the eyes of the disciples with a progressive object lesson. The progression Christ sets up concerns false doctrine and how it closes the ears and eyes; for those who have spiritual ‘ears to hear and eyes to see’ he conjoins the miracle of faith, (Mark 7:28), miracle of hearing, (Mark 7:32) and the miracle of seeing (Mark 8:24). In the last miracle, the man sees men as trees with spiritual eyes - and here our adventure explores the forest of trees throughout the Word- with a special focus on the minor prophets and the sealing of men (symbolically as trees) in Revelation- the opening of eyes of the elect prior to the coming antichrist Notice the three were isolated from the Jewish traditions by nationality or by disability: the gentile Syrophoenecian; the deaf man who spoke Aramaic; and the blind man of Bethsaida. Jesus was using this to open the eyes of the disciples, who were themselves immersed in the traditions. The traditions that had caused them to harden their hearts (close their minds). The man who had not closed his mind could see trees. He had not touched the tree of knowledge of traditions; the closing of the eyes, (naga), the spiritual eyes, goes right back to the garden. This teaching is predicated by the teaching Jesus gave about false teachers and false doctrine. It was this false teaching that had people taking care of the ‘church’ before they took care of their parents and family and led to rituals including repetitive washing in the form of baptidzo. The doctrines smothered the truth. It was these false doctrines that left the disciples doubting and confused, seemingly dimwitted, unable to hear or see. Indeed they would have to have their eyes opened. We will look more closely at the miracle of seeing to ‘see men as trees’ and see the prophetic image of the same confusion throughout the word. So it will be at the end. The ‘Men As Trees’ in the minor prophets is useful in understanding the theme of the Minor Prophets and stands separately if you would like to study just the minor prophets. However it is useful to ZOOM {link} to them when the man sees trees and ZOOM {link} back after to look at the rest of the trees from genesis to Revelation. This message is meant to challenge gently as He does. But it carries with it a warning. The traditions have their modern counterparts and they are closer than you think. They may be in your very own mind, the way you hear, the conventions and taxonomies for processing that cause you close your mind. Be warned. Unless you have lived on an island all your life it has already happened! ________________________MEN AS TREES: CAN YOU SEE? Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Christ is saying we have a problem with traditions. He’s quoting Is 29:13 to show it’s an age old problem - they make void the word of God. Mark 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. Hear this. Remember "ears to hear" is talking about spiritual eyesight. Listen up. Food won’t hurt you. Traditions will poison your mind. They will confuse you. Just come out of them Mark7: 17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. This is important. They asked questions. They wanted to know. They were seeking. With an honest heart, unlike the pharisees they really wanted to know. They wanted to have their eyes opened. Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. God Judges the heart. Your Mind. What you worship. Christ is saying traditions will poison your mind. Traditions of men will get you into a lot of trouble. Mark 7: 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. You don’t have to listen long to a person to see what’s in their mind(s). The Pharisees were overriding the word of God. Traditions don’t replicate the freedom God’s word gives you: they destroy it. Mark 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. 25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: 26 The woman was a gentile, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. Jesus walked 50 miles to do one thing. There was a woman of faith he wanted to reward a woman who was outside the reach of tradition. Mark 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. It was not time yet. His ministry was to the children of Israel. Not to the dogs- a figure of speech; not as harsh as it may seem today. Mark7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. 29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter. 30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed. 31 And again, departing from the coasts of Tyre and Sidon, he came unto the sea of Galilee, through the midst of the coasts of Decapolis. She covenanted by faith. Jesus exercised His power. That power he left to you. The kingdom is open to all who love Him. He walked fifty miles to reward her faith; to reward a mind unpolluted by traditions. A mind of faith that believed His word. Mark 7:32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue; 34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened. 35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain. 36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it; 37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak. Eventually he would open the ears of his disciples: remember we are looking at the deeper spiritual sense here. His word opens ears. Only His word not the traditions of men. Ephphatha is Aramaic, the language of the captivity. Even in captivity His word sets you free. Finally He would make one to see: before the progression for ears to hear, eyes to see one more lesson on traditions. Mark 8:1 In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them, 2 I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat: There might be a deeper meaning here. Mark 8:3 And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they will faint by the way: for divers of them came from far. 4 And his disciples answered him, From whence can a man satisfy these men with bread here in the wilderness? How soon they forgot the last feeding miracle. Matt 16: 11 tells us to be careful what you pick up from traditions: the leaven or doctrine. Remember another wilderness where God fed His children for forty years? His disciples were confused. The Pharisees had forgotten to teach them this. Mark 8: 5 And he asked them, How many loaves have ye? And they said, Seven. 6 And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people. Christ gave the disciples the bread and they fed the people. It’s the same with you. Even one person, especially one person is worth your time to feed the true word of God. Mark 8:7 And they had a few small fishes: and he blessed, and commanded to set them also before them. 8 So they did eat, and were filled: and they took up of the broken meat that was left seven baskets. This is the second feeding. Gods bread will fill you. Christ is the bread. Broken bread -mans bread - traditions (even looks complete) - leaves you empty: leaven; it is the broken bread that leads to the disciples’ confusion. Mark 8:9 And they that had eaten were about four thousand: and he sent them away. 10 And straightway he entered into a ship with his disciples, and came into the parts of Dalmanutha. 11 And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. The religious community! Purveyors of the fragmented bread. A verse here a verse there. Trying to trap Him. Mark8: 12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. He was the sign! 3 days in the tomb and he defeats death. Messiah stands before them - the greatest of all signs. Mark 8:13 And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side. 14 Now the disciples had forgotten to take bread, neither had they in the ship with them more than one loaf. 15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. One complete loaf of bread- Jesus-all they needed. Beware the traditions, or teachings, of men and the confusion it leads you into. Mark 8:16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? Four questions in one verse. Their hearts were hardened; Their minds closed. Are your eyes still closed. Mark 8:18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? Three more questions about hearing, understanding and seeing: where were their minds? Mark 8:19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. This was the first feeding. The Bread is Gods food; the fragments are the traditions of men. One feeding. If the bread was not devoured there’s no telling what men would do with the leftovers. Mark 8:20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. Again traditions: the second feeding: Mark 8:21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand? Even when given visual aids they did not understand. Think! Judge yourself: do you have eyes to see. Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. Christ is asking: can you see anything ? Mark 8:24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. OK this is what we came for. Then he was healed. Though physically blind this man had faith and understanding. Do you know what Jesus is saying here. The man could see men as trees with his spiritual understanding. Can you see the trees in the Garden of Eden. Or the trees of Revelation? Jesus is the tree of life. Can you see types. Lets look at men as trees: if you can see men as trees you may be about to be healed! Ps 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. What is the counsel of the Godly? It is the Word; It is the counsel of David, Moses, Isaiah and the prophets, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and all the great men of the bible. It is light and truth and wisdom and salvation. You will never find it in the doctrines of men. Ezek 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her sent out her little rivers rivers running round about his plants, and unto all the trees of the field.5 Therefore his height trees of the field, and his was exalted above all the boughs were multitude of waters, when he shot multiplied, and his branches became long because of the forth.6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests under his branches did all the beasts in his boughs, and of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. ________________________The Assyrian is a type of Satan Ezek 31:7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. None was like satan in beauty, such that it caused envy. What kind of trees envy? Trees are used also as the symbol or a type of man; Christ is saying more than He is saying in words. Mark 8:25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly. Yes the man saw clearly; he could see the trees in the garden and in the book of Revelation. (5081 telaugos (tay-low-goce');adverb from a compound of a derivative of 5056 and 827; in a far-shining manner, i.e. plainly: KJV-- clearly. {from5056 telos (tel'-os); from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically, an impost or levy (as paid): KJV-- + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411. Cf telescope: to draw things in closely}. Let’s expand our view, telescope through the scriptures so we might see more clearly. Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; You may be a tree grafted into the kingdom -Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? Or you may be a branch of the natural tree re-grafted to God’s family -Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; These trees are supposed to bear fruit! James 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. There will be imitation trees. Be careful! Look at what Matthew has to say about trees Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. This fruit comes from having Gods word in your heart better said, mind. Matt 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. 20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. Jesus spoke these words after casting out the money changers. Can you see the connection with false religion here. The false teachers partook of false religious practices; leaven; fragmented bread. Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Here begins the sequence for deception of the last days Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And the sealing of those with the truth who are His children. In the first seal of Revelation satan comes on a white horse with an imitation bow. Is this knowledge sealed in your mind? If it isn’t your in trouble! You may not be able to distinguish the truth from the imitation. That system is already here in its pre-locust pupal form. Look around at the false teachings, open your eyes to the leaven! Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. Why are one third of the trees burnt up? Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Here we see again men defined as trees - God said there would be a blessing for you for those who read the book of Revelation. God’s seal is the seal of truth in your mind: the word (Jesus) filling your mind, opening your eyes, so that you would be able to discern the lies of this age; or those with eyes to see and ears to hear; the understanding that heals Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. These are the two witnesses; anointed with the Holy Spirit. Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Jesus is the tree of life. You can partake of the tree of life. Here’s how. Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. His commandments are His word. You can’t keep his commandments if you do not know His Word; man’s doctrine will smother the truth. Don’t let any man rob you of His word. They may rob you of eternal life. Come out of the confusion by getting into His word. _______________________________________ References and Further Study: God refers to men as trees: Isa 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. Look also at the trees of the wood; forest; field in Isa 7:2; 10:19; 44:14 and 55:12 Don’t touch that tree! (from the Genesis study) Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 5060 naga` (naw-gah');a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):KJV-- beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch. The beguiling of Eve 2 Cor11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 1818 exapatao (ex-ap-at-ah'-o);from 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly: KJV-- beguile, deceive.} Trees - the spine- eyes6086 `ets (ates); from 6095; a tree (from its firmness); hence, wood (plural sticks): KJV-- + carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood. 6095 `atsah (aw-tsaw');a primitive root; properly, to fasten (or make firm), i.e. to close (the eyes): KJV-- shut. 6096 `atseh (aw-tseh');from 6095; the spine (as giving firmness to the body): KJV-- backbone. Cedar - deep roots 730 'erez (eh-rez');from 729; a cedar tree (from the tenacity of its roots): KJV-- cedar (tree). 729 'araz- as a verb:1) to be firm 2) made firm (past participle) Brown-Driver-Briggs/Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: as an adjective: 3) firm, strong ________________________Tree vs 'Instead of Tree' Tree of Life vs tree of knowledge of good and evil. Look at what happened to this tree: Ezek 31:10-12 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. 12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him. Ezek 31:15-16 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. 16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. Come out of confusion: Deliver yourself! Zechariah 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.________________________MEN AS TREES IN THE MINOR PROPHETS Hosea 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved. The teacher prophets (9:8)were a snare; false teachings led to apostasy; the people threw their blessings away. They were throwing away their inheritance. Hosea 14:6 His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon. Hosea 14:8 Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found. The fatherless find mercy in Him (14:3-5) He is an evergreen tree; in Him we are able to bear fruit Joel 1:7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white. The people are stripped bare; they are drunk on false doctrines. The new wine is cut off from them. They are told to sober up. Traditions have put them to sleep! Compare this (1:6) to Rev 9 the instead of Christ rises to power; people stung in the head with false doctrine; letting their heritage go; not knowing the Word and plan of God. Joel 1:12 The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men. Vine dressers (1:11)-the people who feed the trees aren’t doing their job; no Truth - no true spiritual food for people. Joel 1:19 O LORD, to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and the flame hath burned all the trees of the field. These trees are burned. Our god is a consuming fire. People pay the price in anguish, pain and disappointment because they don’t get into the meat of God’s word. Joel 2:22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength. For some the latter rains come; for those who tell God they love him and get into His word. These trees enjoy the fruit of their labor. There is rapid ripening of fruit in that five month period. Seeds planted now come to fruition. Amos 4:9 I have smitten you with blasting and mildew: when your gardens and your vineyards and your fig trees and your olive trees increased, the palmerworm devoured them: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD. One city got rain while another didn’t (4:4). Wherever you are, God will rain on you if you study God’s word with understanding. But in the famine you will never get enough from those who make the word of God void. Even in the famine, and though smitten, there are many trees for whom there is no self examination, no repentance, no exercising of the mind. Not even a thank you for the Father. Nahum 2:3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken. Some trees will be terribly shaken when the supernatural chariots arrive. Many won’t make it without the truth. Many just won’t make it. Nahum 3:12 All thy strong holds shall be like fig trees with the firstripe figs: if they be shaken, they shall even fall into the mouth of the eater. The trees blossom with false doctrine and think they’re doing pretty good. But it will be too late. God allows them to fall into the hands of the instead of Christ. Read the rest of Nahum. It looks familiar if you’ve read Rev. 9. Hab 3:17 Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Remember the cursed fig tree? A particular fig-tree - no flowers and no fruit. Depends on who you are; false doctrine trees bear no fruit, for all their works they lead the unsuspecting to the camp of the instead-of-Christ. Good figs produce fruit by planting the true seed; others are thrown in the fire. The threshing is coming: but there is joy in salvation for those who understand it. Hag 2:19 Is the seed yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree, hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you. Exercise your mind here (2:15). The seed is the word. It is not to be kept in the barn- rather it is sown to produce a harvest; in due season plant the seed and the word will produce fruit. Even to the spiritually asleep or dead. Look around they’re not far from you! Zech 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. Many are asleep or dead who think in their hearts they are getting by pretty good. But the moth is eating at the fabric of their life. God puts holes in their buckets to get their attention. The myrtle trees are the brush trees used to scent the booths at succoth. The angels provide us with intelligence as to the state of affairs at the end. Zech 1:10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. 11. And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. The angels explain they were sent to find out if the time is right; but they report the world is already at peace. The trees think Christ is already here….. Their eyes are closed. Mark 8:23-2523 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.All Scripture for this study was taken from the King James Bible. Word studies were done with the Strong's Concordance. The author is "Rob".
Men As Trees : The Miracle Of Seeing
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Symbology is one of the ways God teaches us Just as we are not really wheat or chaff/tares God calls the good and bad people that, Just as Christ was not really literally a lamb he calls himself one symbology is a great way to learn Gods deeper truths. Thats why he uses nature it does not change, just because one has never studied and been taught it in todays fast food religion of Salvation and repentanceThe milk of the Word with out any meat does not mean its not true, Bread is not always literal bread it is sometimes God/Christ or the Word, God's truth.Bread is symbolic ..same as trees, serpents, wheat, chaff, stars, Water,horns ect. ect I could give you hundres of examples open your minds and listen to what your father is teaching you. Before you disreguard it because men do not teach it anymore as it was intended to be taught. God interpts his own symbology if one learns to listen
how blissful it must be to go through life thinking that any one that does not agree has just not learned to listen
Instead of smart remarks waguinas prove it wrong ,,,,be my guest prove God doesnt use symbols prove my examples are wrong .... Im not asking to believe me Im asking that you hear God.
(Christina;66762)
(waquinas;66761)
how blissful it must be to go through life thinking that any one that does not agree has just not learned to listen
Instead of smart remarks waguinas prove it wrong ,,,,be my guest prove God doesnt use symbols prove my examples are wrong .... Im not asking to believe me Im asking that you hear God.Christina, as long as they are set in their man's ways path... some things will never change in life.
(waquinas;66761)
how blissful it must be to go through life thinking that any one that does not agree has just not learned to listen
Instead of smart remarks waguinas prove it wrong ,,,,be my guest prove God doesnt use symbols prove my examples are wrong .... Im not asking to believe me Im asking that you hear God.Christina, as long as they are set in their man's ways path... some things will never change in life.
Sorry just frustrating sometimes, but I do enjoy the challenge and it helps me work on patience. In my experience you would just tell me I am not listening to God, or am spiritually a child or weak…etc, so I hardly see what the point of the invitation is, as sincere as it may be.God would not tell people different things on the same matter, so if we disagree obviously one or both of us are wrong. This leaves us nothing but reason. In our attempts to express reason then, the argument that I cannot hear or am just unwilling to listen to God comes across as a pseudo self-justifying way of repeating over and over that one is right and the other wrong in what is really a rather condescending tone and manner. Not only just right, but on “God’s side”. If only we were so enlightened and could hear we would but understand. Both sides could say the same thing, but it really does not foster good dialogue or relations for either side to express that. A simple “I disagree” or “think you are mistaken” or “you are wrong” and here is why I think so on this would suffice. That’s all.Happy New Year
(waquinas;66767)
Sorry just frustrating sometimes, but I do enjoy the challenge and it helps me work on patience. In my experience you would just tell me I am not listening to God, or am spiritually a child or weak…etc, so I hardly see what the point of the invitation is, as sincere as it may be.God would not tell people different things on the same matter, so if we disagree obviously one or both of us are wrong. This leaves us nothing but reason. In our attempts to express reason then, the argument that I cannot hear or am just unwilling to listen to God comes across as a pseudo self-justifying way of repeating over and over that one is right and the other wrong in what is really a rather condescending tone and manner. Not only just right, but on “God’s side”. If only we were so enlightened and could hear we would but understand. Both sides could say the same thing, but it really does not foster good dialogue or relations for either side to express that. A simple “I disagree” or “think you are mistaken” or “you are wrong” and here is why I think so on this would suffice. That’s all.Happy New Year
Well, the problem with God and men is... God tells us one thing only and He never changes. Men tells us one thing and another and another thing and keeps continuing to change their mind. ...
Sorry just frustrating sometimes, but I do enjoy the challenge and it helps me work on patience. In my experience you would just tell me I am not listening to God, or am spiritually a child or weak…etc, so I hardly see what the point of the invitation is, as sincere as it may be.God would not tell people different things on the same matter, so if we disagree obviously one or both of us are wrong. This leaves us nothing but reason. In our attempts to express reason then, the argument that I cannot hear or am just unwilling to listen to God comes across as a pseudo self-justifying way of repeating over and over that one is right and the other wrong in what is really a rather condescending tone and manner. Not only just right, but on “God’s side”. If only we were so enlightened and could hear we would but understand. Both sides could say the same thing, but it really does not foster good dialogue or relations for either side to express that. A simple “I disagree” or “think you are mistaken” or “you are wrong” and here is why I think so on this would suffice. That’s all.Happy New Year
Well, the problem with God and men is... God tells us one thing only and He never changes. Men tells us one thing and another and another thing and keeps continuing to change their mind. ...
Jordan,that is exactly the main reason I joined the Church I have finally joined and will never leave. Just as you say, the teachings from God to all men are not suppose to change and it should never be left to my own understanding or my own search for understanding to find those teachings. If we do that, then our understanding is fickle and will change during our life, just as you say it should not.Can't speak for all of you, but found for myself in my own journey going from Church to Church as "my" understanding changed or "grew" only to find with each change that something I thought I knew, believed or understood before, was now wrong as I moved to or became acquainted with a new Church. Raised Southern Baptist, have since been Methodist, several versions of independent Baptist, Evangelical Presbyterian, and several "home Churches. Attended a few evangelical, but never real felt comfortable with tongues, dancing, fainting or laughing...etc practiced at some of those. That is a pretty healthy sample of most of the Prostestant faiths.I know none of you accept this or will believe it and that is ok with me. I do, but just so you understand where I am coming from; None of those Church's with which I formerly identified ever claimed to have a deposit of faith given/entrusted to it by God. They pretty much all claimed to teach the truth as they understood the Bible, period. However each understood various points differently, so obviously an “understanding” of the Bible was not a foundation I could just accept as unchanging if people could arrive at different views from the same passages, and form Churches based on those teachings.Now I belong to a Church that does not claim to be teaching an “understanding” of the Bible, but giving me teachings from God, teachings given to and entrusted to a Church to protect. Now the burden of my being right or wrong on a particular belief is removed not just from me, or my understanding of the Bible. But also removed from the particular teacher/paster/whomever I am listening to or like at the moment. I can rest then in the knowledge that the Church, even if I am not aware of it, has dealt with any issue and has an answer, an answer that has not and will not change. They have extensive and exhaustive representations of those teachings, many in very great detail. So when you speak of teachings not changing, it always reminds me of the times in my life when I thought "I" knew and was certain what I knew was what God wanted all men to know. Only to come to see a different, even if only slightly different view later and realize I was just wrong before, my eyes were "not open" as I thought they were, or I did not understand the "meat" properly. Now it is not a matter of my knowing if I am right or wrong, but having a faith that God has given us all what He wants us to know and entrusted it to the Church to protect and teach those things.Am glad you all feel you are right and are just trying to "open" my eyes, but please know I am home now and nothing you could say would change my mind on that. I hope your journey goes better than mine did and that you never become disallusioned or confused when what you thought you formly "knew" changes along the way. If you are old enough I suspect it has changed at least once already - if even only in a small way. If it has or when it does, perhaps you will ponder why it changed and why you feel you are any more certain of being "correct" after the change than you felt before it.
(waquinas;66804)
Jordan,that is exactly the main reason I joined the Church I have finally joined and will never leave. Just as you say, the teachings from God to all men are not suppose to change and it should never be left to my own understanding or my own search for understanding to find those teachings. If we do that, then our understanding is fickle and will change during our life, just as you say it should not.Can't speak for all of you, but found for myself in my own journey going from Church to Church as "my" understanding changed or "grew" only to find with each change that something I thought I knew, believed or understood before, was now wrong as I moved to or became acquainted with a new Church. Raised Southern Baptist, have since been Methodist, several versions of independent Baptist, Evangelical Presbyterian, and several "home Churches. Attended a few evangelical, but never real felt comfortable with tongues, dancing, fainting or laughing...etc practiced at some of those. That is a pretty healthy sample of most of the Prostestant faiths.I know none of you accept this or will believe it and that is ok with me. I do, but just so you understand where I am coming from; None of those Church's with which I formerly identified ever claimed to have a deposit of faith given/entrusted to it by God. They pretty much all claimed to teach the truth as they understood the Bible, period. However each understood various points differently, so obviously an “understanding” of the Bible was not a foundation I could just accept as unchanging if people could arrive at different views from the same passages, and form Churches based on those teachings.Now I belong to a Church that does not claim to be teaching an “understanding” of the Bible, but giving me teachings from God, teachings given to and entrusted to a Church to protect. Now the burden of my being right or wrong on a particular belief is removed not just from me, or my understanding of the Bible. But also removed from the particular teacher/paster/whomever I am listening to or like at the moment. I can rest then in the knowledge that the Church, even if I am not aware of it, has dealt with any issue and has an answer, an answer that has not and will not change. They have extensive and exhaustive representations of those teachings, many in very great detail. So when you speak of teachings not changing, it always reminds me of the times in my life when I thought "I" knew and was certain what I knew was what God wanted all men to know. Only to come to see a different, even if only slightly different view later and realize I was just wrong before, my eyes were "not open" as I thought they were, or I did not understand the "meat" properly. Now it is not a matter of my knowing if I am right or wrong, but having a faith that God has given us all what He wants us to know and entrusted it to the Church to protect and teach those things.Am glad you all feel you are right and are just trying to "open" my eyes, but please know I am home now and nothing you could say would change my mind on that. I hope your journey goes better than mine did and that you never become disallusioned or confused when what you thought you formly "knew" changes along the way. If you are old enough I suspect it has changed at least once already - if even only in a small way. If it has or when it does, perhaps you will ponder why it changed and why you feel you are any more certain of being "correct" after the change than you felt before it.
I hate to burst your bubble, I hate it when a person agrees with me, when we are not. In fact, we are far away from each other. Catholicism and Protestantism are both guilty in some forms and better in some forms. Some better than others, but they are for men and of men. That's why I go to my Priest (Hebrews 3:1) who is my Saviour (John 4:42, John 14:6, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) and He that sendeth the Holy Spirit in His name... My teacher is God, the Holy Spirit. That's why I rather go to God first, instead of men.No men is right, (Psalm 116:11) only God. (Romans 3:4)
Jordan,that is exactly the main reason I joined the Church I have finally joined and will never leave. Just as you say, the teachings from God to all men are not suppose to change and it should never be left to my own understanding or my own search for understanding to find those teachings. If we do that, then our understanding is fickle and will change during our life, just as you say it should not.Can't speak for all of you, but found for myself in my own journey going from Church to Church as "my" understanding changed or "grew" only to find with each change that something I thought I knew, believed or understood before, was now wrong as I moved to or became acquainted with a new Church. Raised Southern Baptist, have since been Methodist, several versions of independent Baptist, Evangelical Presbyterian, and several "home Churches. Attended a few evangelical, but never real felt comfortable with tongues, dancing, fainting or laughing...etc practiced at some of those. That is a pretty healthy sample of most of the Prostestant faiths.I know none of you accept this or will believe it and that is ok with me. I do, but just so you understand where I am coming from; None of those Church's with which I formerly identified ever claimed to have a deposit of faith given/entrusted to it by God. They pretty much all claimed to teach the truth as they understood the Bible, period. However each understood various points differently, so obviously an “understanding” of the Bible was not a foundation I could just accept as unchanging if people could arrive at different views from the same passages, and form Churches based on those teachings.Now I belong to a Church that does not claim to be teaching an “understanding” of the Bible, but giving me teachings from God, teachings given to and entrusted to a Church to protect. Now the burden of my being right or wrong on a particular belief is removed not just from me, or my understanding of the Bible. But also removed from the particular teacher/paster/whomever I am listening to or like at the moment. I can rest then in the knowledge that the Church, even if I am not aware of it, has dealt with any issue and has an answer, an answer that has not and will not change. They have extensive and exhaustive representations of those teachings, many in very great detail. So when you speak of teachings not changing, it always reminds me of the times in my life when I thought "I" knew and was certain what I knew was what God wanted all men to know. Only to come to see a different, even if only slightly different view later and realize I was just wrong before, my eyes were "not open" as I thought they were, or I did not understand the "meat" properly. Now it is not a matter of my knowing if I am right or wrong, but having a faith that God has given us all what He wants us to know and entrusted it to the Church to protect and teach those things.Am glad you all feel you are right and are just trying to "open" my eyes, but please know I am home now and nothing you could say would change my mind on that. I hope your journey goes better than mine did and that you never become disallusioned or confused when what you thought you formly "knew" changes along the way. If you are old enough I suspect it has changed at least once already - if even only in a small way. If it has or when it does, perhaps you will ponder why it changed and why you feel you are any more certain of being "correct" after the change than you felt before it.
I hate to burst your bubble, I hate it when a person agrees with me, when we are not. In fact, we are far away from each other. Catholicism and Protestantism are both guilty in some forms and better in some forms. Some better than others, but they are for men and of men. That's why I go to my Priest (Hebrews 3:1) who is my Saviour (John 4:42, John 14:6, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) and He that sendeth the Holy Spirit in His name... My teacher is God, the Holy Spirit. That's why I rather go to God first, instead of men.No men is right, (Psalm 116:11) only God. (Romans 3:4)
(Jordan;66808)
I hate to burst your bubble, I hate it when a person agrees with me, when we are not. In fact, we are far away from each other.
LOL, you did not burst my bubble - only confirmed what I am saying. We both agree that the Truth never changes.I just pointed out why the Truth for me can no longer change and I did not ask you or any one else to agree with me on that. It is just the way it is with me. That I like the fact that my faith and beliefs are no longer subject to my own understanding or the ability of someone else to sway me to a new belief is comforting for me. Perhaps I have seen more. I had solid faith and strong membership with groups of people, only to see that shaken when the leader of that group decided a particular "truth" we had previously held was no longer valid. Churches split over it. If it does not bother you that your own views have already changed in your lifetime, or when they do change and your as equally convinced after the change as you were before in the foundation of those beliefs, perhaps it really does not matter for you. It did for me and it bothered me. If I was the aribitrator, how could I with any confidence, since I was just as certain before that I was "seeing" God's Word, say that I was really certain now? What can I say?
I hate to burst your bubble, I hate it when a person agrees with me, when we are not. In fact, we are far away from each other.
LOL, you did not burst my bubble - only confirmed what I am saying. We both agree that the Truth never changes.I just pointed out why the Truth for me can no longer change and I did not ask you or any one else to agree with me on that. It is just the way it is with me. That I like the fact that my faith and beliefs are no longer subject to my own understanding or the ability of someone else to sway me to a new belief is comforting for me. Perhaps I have seen more. I had solid faith and strong membership with groups of people, only to see that shaken when the leader of that group decided a particular "truth" we had previously held was no longer valid. Churches split over it. If it does not bother you that your own views have already changed in your lifetime, or when they do change and your as equally convinced after the change as you were before in the foundation of those beliefs, perhaps it really does not matter for you. It did for me and it bothered me. If I was the aribitrator, how could I with any confidence, since I was just as certain before that I was "seeing" God's Word, say that I was really certain now? What can I say?
I know you could care less what I say and your going to do what you are going to do And I cant judge your church but remember on judgement day you will have no one standing between you and God no church no man only you ... God says I come in the book/Word ..not in men. So if your church isnt feeding you the Word of God you are in trouble. God tells you where he is are you listening? Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. I know you will accuse me of being judgemental but Amos 8:11-12 is already working so be careful who you follow ... God Bless
(waquinas;66804)
Now I belong to a Church that does not claim to be teaching an “understanding” of the Bible, but giving me teachings from God, teachings given to and entrusted to a Church to protect. Now the burden of my being right or wrong on a particular belief is removed not just from me, or my understanding of the Bible. But also removed from the particular teacher/paster/whomever I am listening to or like at the moment. I can rest then in the knowledge that the Church, even if I am not aware of it, has dealt with any issue and has an answer, an answer that has not and will not change. They have extensive and exhaustive representations of those teachings, many in very great detail.
I agree with waquinas.Did you know that the Jews have an Oral Torah in addition to the written Torah? On Mount Sinai God gave Moses additional instructions which were passed from father to son by word of mouth. This Oral Tradition was only to be written down if the Jewish people should ever find themselves so fragmented that the Oral Torah might be lost. The Rabbis deemed this to be the case in 190AD , 45 years after Rome finally razed Jerusalem. It was written down by Rabbi Judah Hanasi in about 200AD as the Mishna.This Oral tradition is a pre-figuring of the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church whereby Jesus’ teaching was passed on orally and only some of it was written down in what we know as the NT. According to an article in Wikipedia The books of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition passed on by each generation. Jewish law and tradition thus is not based on a strictly literal reading of the Tanakh, but on combined oral and written traditions. – exactly similar to the oral and written traditions passed on by the apostles and preserved by the Catholic Church.The OP tries to rubbish all tradition by selectively quoting the occasion when Jesus condemns corrupt traditions not all traditions. This itself is a blindness. Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2Thess 2:15)
Now I belong to a Church that does not claim to be teaching an “understanding” of the Bible, but giving me teachings from God, teachings given to and entrusted to a Church to protect. Now the burden of my being right or wrong on a particular belief is removed not just from me, or my understanding of the Bible. But also removed from the particular teacher/paster/whomever I am listening to or like at the moment. I can rest then in the knowledge that the Church, even if I am not aware of it, has dealt with any issue and has an answer, an answer that has not and will not change. They have extensive and exhaustive representations of those teachings, many in very great detail.
I agree with waquinas.Did you know that the Jews have an Oral Torah in addition to the written Torah? On Mount Sinai God gave Moses additional instructions which were passed from father to son by word of mouth. This Oral Tradition was only to be written down if the Jewish people should ever find themselves so fragmented that the Oral Torah might be lost. The Rabbis deemed this to be the case in 190AD , 45 years after Rome finally razed Jerusalem. It was written down by Rabbi Judah Hanasi in about 200AD as the Mishna.This Oral tradition is a pre-figuring of the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church whereby Jesus’ teaching was passed on orally and only some of it was written down in what we know as the NT. According to an article in Wikipedia The books of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition passed on by each generation. Jewish law and tradition thus is not based on a strictly literal reading of the Tanakh, but on combined oral and written traditions. – exactly similar to the oral and written traditions passed on by the apostles and preserved by the Catholic Church.The OP tries to rubbish all tradition by selectively quoting the occasion when Jesus condemns corrupt traditions not all traditions. This itself is a blindness. Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2Thess 2:15)
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Seems pretty clear to me but alas men will say and do anything to justify their own traditions of menMar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. The traditions you were to follow were the ones God gave in his word ... Not the ones the Men of religions invented or preverted
(Christina;66861)
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Seems pretty clear to me but alas men will say and do anything to justify their own traditions of menMar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. The traditions you were to follow were the ones God gave in his word ... Not the ones the Men of religions invented or preverted
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....I Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;...II Timothy 3:1 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.II Timothy 3:2 - For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,II Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,II Timothy 3:4 - Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;II Timothy 3:5 - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.II Timothy 3:6 - For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,II Timothy 3:7 - Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me, Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Seems pretty clear to me but alas men will say and do anything to justify their own traditions of menMar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. The traditions you were to follow were the ones God gave in his word ... Not the ones the Men of religions invented or preverted
Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Matthew 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity....I Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;...II Timothy 3:1 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.II Timothy 3:2 - For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,II Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,II Timothy 3:4 - Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;II Timothy 3:5 - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.II Timothy 3:6 - For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,II Timothy 3:7 - Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth....Amos 8:11 - Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Amos 8:12 - And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
So just because we do not agree with your theory of men as trees, this does not keep us out of the book of life. We have faith in Christ and understanding you reject, but we are not questioning your salvation because of a trivial theory.You are adding to the word and therefore are cursing yourselves. Your references to the concordance are really reaching. I presented you with a literal rendition of the verses from genesis in the most sexual manner I could find in the concordance refrences and you erased what I wrote and chose to continue to spout the lie of the serpant seed being sexual.
The Doctrine Of "THE SERPENT'S SEED" The Doctrine of The Serpent's Seed has been around a very long time. Listed here are it's basic teachings, which branch out into a very elaborate "wild goose chase" of considerable proportions. 1. When Eve yielded to "The Temptation" in the Garden Of Eden, the "Serpent" was in the form of a man, and Eve "ate" when she had "sex" with the devil.2. Later Adam had sex with the devil as he took a taste of the "fruit."3. Eve got pregnant from the devil and pretended it was from Adam4. CAIN WAS THE DEVIL'S CHILD and he proved it when he murdered his brother Abel.5. The earth was filled with "violence" because of the Serpent's Seed - Angels married with Cain's Daughters producing Giants (or a similar deviation of this theme). THE FLOOD 6. God killed them all off by way of Noah's Flood, but the devil fooled them all, because "HAM'S WIFE" got on board the Ark after having sex with a member of THE SERPENT'S SEED. Her son, Caanan was the continuation of The Serpent's Seed here on earth and his descendants are causing all the evil, operating through Edomites, etc. Some teach White Supremacy - the Arian Race as the only ones on earth not mixed in with The Serpent's Seed! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will now show WHY this doctrine is false and has Satan as it's originator! We are being "set up" by Satan for his "Antichrist" and this Doctrine is a main tool in the hand of the builders of the NWO Satanic Rites of passage! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For example, following is a partial list of assumptions that must be true in order for this doctrine to be viable: Satan was able to materialize physically The tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden was either Satan or a humanoid of another race. The beguiling of Eve was sexual Satan had sexual relations with Eve. The terms "nakedness" and "sorrow in childbirth" are evidence of a sin that was sexual in nature. Eve either did not know, was deceived or lied about Cain having been a blessing from God. If the doctrine is true, one would think that at least one of these major premises for this teaching would be found stated somewhere in the Bible. However, there are no Scriptures that expressly teach any of those claims. Also, keep in mind that if those pillars of the Serpent's Seed Doctrine can be Scripturally removed, the whole doctrine must be abandoned as false and spurious. ==============And Adam knew [had sexual intercourse with] Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man [child] from Yahweh. (Genesis 4:1) That could hardly be stated more plainly.Yet, those who teach the Doctrine of The Serpent's Seed deny the plain teachings of the Bible and ADD THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION, which can not be proven Scripturally!%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%The Holy Spirit of God (THE SPIRIT OF THE WORD) does not bear Witness with this false Doctrine - thus proving it's false Origins!Let me explain:Jesus said, "The WORDS that I speak unto you are SPIRIT AND LIFE." John 6:63.There is a SPIRIT contained within God's Inspired Scriptures and Word! It is God's Witness through His Holy Spirit! That is why Satan fears the Bible and Satanists seek to keep it's Message from the people! The Book has a Spirit within it's Words, THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD!The Word bears Witness in Heaven and the Spirit and the Word AGREE. 1 John 5:7 - 8. When the Scriptures seem to be saying something, if the Spirit does not agree, then the conclusion is in error and further study and prayer is needed for a proper understanding. This is most truly so concerning the popular error in The Doctrine Of the Serpent's Seed! One can not trust the opinions of a few Rabbis who wrote around the time of The Babylonian Captivity, concerning the doctrine of The Serpent's Seed, as they introduced it into Judaism. Sufficient research shows that there was a debate among the Rabbis, as to how the "Serpent's Seed" teaching came into Jewish thought. It was found that it made its appearance during the Captivity in Babylon, and a few even wondered if the "Sacred Text" as received from Moses had been altered in some way! No evidence of this could be found, since the "originals" were long gone, and the Copies were believed to be accurate. Ezra the Scribe, during the Captivity, translated the Old Testament Scriptures from the Texts of that time, which were badly deteriated and worn, into their present Hebrew Form. His Translation was as close to flawless as humans can get, yet about this same time, other Rabbis created "Commentaries" of their own for the purpose of "Apologetics" in dialog with neighboring "Pagan" Religions. Pagans had long accepted a "mix" of angels and men as a Tradition. (Remember, Pagans worshipped demonic spirit beings!) A few Rabbis interjected into Judaism a long established Pagan Tradition, held among the Babylonians, Buddhists, the emerging Hindus, the Persians and Greeks. It was introduced into the newly written Book Of Enoch, which did not exist except in oral form before this time (according to Ancient Rabbinical Writings).The Doctrine of The Serpent's Seed, however, was NEVER Officially accepted by the Jewish Leaders, only entertained! In LATER GENERATIONS, when Christianity appeared, some of these Jewish teachings were BORROWED from earlier Hebrew Writers. That is how this "Doctrine" came to be within Christianity. It has NEVER been Officially accepted by Major Christian Denominations! Honest Christians should wonder, WHY? It has been considered a Doctrine with "shaky foundations" Fundamental Evangelical Theologins . As a sign of these current decadent times, old and heretical doctrines are "surfacing" almost daily! A "strong delusion" is now upon us! TAKE A LOOK.....Jesus said that Angels are SEXLESS in Matthew 22:29-30.Yet, many teachers assume that Angels "once upon a time" had sex with people! Only the Satanists and Pagans hold to this claim firmly. Then WHY do Christians want to believe it? I think it is because IT SELLS COPY -- it is SENSATIONAL! "The love of money is the root of all evil." 1 Tim. 6:10. We should BEWARE of a teaching that was embraced by such notables as Helen Blavatsky, Hitler, Tibetan Monks, Alice Bailey, Albert Pike, Alester Crowley, and other Luciferian Occultists. Blavatsky's Book, The Secret Doctrine embraces these views and recommends the destruction of those who have "BAD KARMA" - Jews and Evangelical Christians! Many so called Christians have become utterly CORRUPT and quickly turn aside after "filthy lucre." Titus 1:11.GOD'S WORD TEACHES, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word be ESTABLISHED!" Matthew 18:16.You CAN NOT establish a Biblical Doctrine on one Verse or one single mention of an incident! Otherwise it is cast out as heretical by those obedient to the Word itself!THE FLOODIn Genesis Chapter Six, Verse Two, "The sons of God saw the daughters of men; and they took them wives of all which they chose." Verse 4: "There were giants in the earth in those days..."God saw this wicked race of giants and determined to destroy them all with a flood, which he sent, saving only Noah and his "righteous" family...a total of eight individuals.Once the Biblical Account is read, and the Hebrew words: "sons of God" are looked up in the Original Text, IT IS ASSUMED that the Text is speaking of ANGELS! Yet, NO ONE has ever PROVED THIS STATEMENT FROM THE HEBREW ITSELF! Hebrew words have various USAGES and meanings. Jesus said that Angels are SEXLESS in Matthew 22:29-30.It is completely within the realm of possibility that "sons of God" referred to Adam's righteous descendants, just as the Bible calls Adam, "The Son Of God." Luke 3:38. The "sons of God" translates from the Hebrew into, "Sons of The Elohim." It was the Elohim that made "Man in God's Image." To believe that these "Angels" somehow "left their first estate" (Jude 6), to assume a sexual role, is to assume that Jude is speaking of the same "Elohim" mentioned in Genesis. There is no Scripture to connect the two Verses as having reference to the same Events. Thus, one may very easily do the Scriptures "violence" not even realizing what is being done!Jesus said that Angels are SEXLESS in Matthew 22:29-30.Some use "limited" Hebrew usage examples from the Old Testament to build their case upon "sand." Using their seemingly "proper" methodology, they omit major Portions of Scripture in their reasoning. Jesus said, "Every" Word Of God is what we must receive, not just a convenient Verse, Jot or Tittle, here and there! I will now show you HOW I believe it REALLY HAPPENED, without denying ANY of God's Word - and all within the realm of common sense and logical reasoning! No little green men or "grays" either!HOW THE PRE-FLOOD RACE BECAME "CORRUPTED"1. Sin entered the Human Family through Adam and Eve's sin of disobedience. Genesis Chapter 3.2. Cain was born to Adam and Eve and Eve called him, "A man from the Lord." Gen. 4:1. She did not believe he was "of the devil" as some claim. 3. Abel was also born to Adam and Eve. In the process of time, sacrifices were offered to the Lord. Each offered of his "substance." The Lord chose Abel's sacrifice as the type which pleased him. Cain was angry about this and took his anger out on his brother in a rage of jealousy. Abel's "sacrifice" was superior. God did not claim Abel was superior, but offered Cain the option of ruling over his brother, if he would "do well." See Verse Seven. He rebelled against the Lord and murdered his brother. This was done after the Lord had counseled with him, making his crime far more than manslaughter - it was premeditated murder!4. The Lord confronted Cain with his crime and placed a "curse" upon him. Verse 11 - 15. 5. A "MARK" WAS ALSO PLACED UPON CAIN, SO THAT THOSE FINDING HIM WOULD NOT KILL HIM. Notice that the Lord did not "execute" him, but separated him from his other Family Members and sent him out into "The Land Of Nod."
tomwebster
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Do you know what Robin, you can believe anything you want. It does not matter to me. You will discover the truth some day. The Serpent seed does not depend on you believing it.
(RobinD69;66868)
So just because we do not agree with your theory of men as trees, this does not keep us out of the book of life. We have faith in Christ and understanding you reject, but we are not questioning your salvation because of a trivial theory.You are adding to the word and therefore are cursing yourselves. Your references to the concordance are really reaching. I presented you with a literal rendition of the verses from genesis in the most sexual manner I could find in the concordance refrences and you erased what I wrote and chose to continue to spout the lie of the serpant seed being sexual.
Wow, that just astounds me. Everybody feels like everything has to be of salvation. Deeper Study is not about salvation and never will. It is about the understanding the plan of God that is completely written in the book. But they can affect one's salvation if one never study the Truth, yet follow the tradition of men, like worshipping Mary, purgeatory, Tongue Speaking etc...
So just because we do not agree with your theory of men as trees, this does not keep us out of the book of life. We have faith in Christ and understanding you reject, but we are not questioning your salvation because of a trivial theory.You are adding to the word and therefore are cursing yourselves. Your references to the concordance are really reaching. I presented you with a literal rendition of the verses from genesis in the most sexual manner I could find in the concordance refrences and you erased what I wrote and chose to continue to spout the lie of the serpant seed being sexual.
Wow, that just astounds me. Everybody feels like everything has to be of salvation. Deeper Study is not about salvation and never will. It is about the understanding the plan of God that is completely written in the book. But they can affect one's salvation if one never study the Truth, yet follow the tradition of men, like worshipping Mary, purgeatory, Tongue Speaking etc...
(RobinD69;66868)
So just because we do not agree with your theory of men as trees, this does not keep us out of the book of life. We have faith in Christ and understanding you reject, but we are not questioning your salvation because of a trivial theory.You are adding to the word and therefore are cursing yourselves. Your references to the concordance are really reaching. I presented you with a literal rendition of the verses from genesis in the most sexual manner I could find in the concordance refrences and you erased what I wrote and chose to continue to spout the lie of the serpant seed being sexual.
No one asked you to believe it Its not my theroy its Gods Word just because you dont understand it doesnt mean its not his Words ....they are Not My words ... But as I have stated many many times None of things are about our salvation .. We are saved by grace not understanding everything written in Gods Word ..understanding what and how he teaches understanding his entire plan is not required to be saved and I have never said different ... But this is not a religious site .. of repentance an salvation its a Bible study site we study scripture therefore there is more written than you have ever heard in todays fast food religion of no meat... I love my father and want to know and understand the letter he wrote us ... If you do not desire the same .. are you still saved ..yes of course .. The Grace of God has saved you ... Are you Biblically knowledgable that is another question ... im not interested in what has been said before or will be said again I only care what God says ...if you dont that your choice .. You dont have to agree with me ... But sense you will have a hard time proving me wrong in scripture ...all you have is an opinion and everyman has one ... we show the scriptures say these things for those who want to know their Fathers letter to them and Words of wisdom he gave us ...if you dont fine dont believe it. Then I might ask why you are on this site when hundreds of sites can tell you your saved and God loves you if thats the extent of your desire ...perhaps a Bible study site is to much meat for your milk desires
So just because we do not agree with your theory of men as trees, this does not keep us out of the book of life. We have faith in Christ and understanding you reject, but we are not questioning your salvation because of a trivial theory.You are adding to the word and therefore are cursing yourselves. Your references to the concordance are really reaching. I presented you with a literal rendition of the verses from genesis in the most sexual manner I could find in the concordance refrences and you erased what I wrote and chose to continue to spout the lie of the serpant seed being sexual.
No one asked you to believe it Its not my theroy its Gods Word just because you dont understand it doesnt mean its not his Words ....they are Not My words ... But as I have stated many many times None of things are about our salvation .. We are saved by grace not understanding everything written in Gods Word ..understanding what and how he teaches understanding his entire plan is not required to be saved and I have never said different ... But this is not a religious site .. of repentance an salvation its a Bible study site we study scripture therefore there is more written than you have ever heard in todays fast food religion of no meat... I love my father and want to know and understand the letter he wrote us ... If you do not desire the same .. are you still saved ..yes of course .. The Grace of God has saved you ... Are you Biblically knowledgable that is another question ... im not interested in what has been said before or will be said again I only care what God says ...if you dont that your choice .. You dont have to agree with me ... But sense you will have a hard time proving me wrong in scripture ...all you have is an opinion and everyman has one ... we show the scriptures say these things for those who want to know their Fathers letter to them and Words of wisdom he gave us ...if you dont fine dont believe it. Then I might ask why you are on this site when hundreds of sites can tell you your saved and God loves you if thats the extent of your desire ...perhaps a Bible study site is to much meat for your milk desires
tomwebster
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…But as I have stated many many times None of things are about our salvation .. We are saved by grace not understanding everything written in Gods Word ..understanding what and how he teaches understanding his entire plan is not required to be saved and I have never said different ….
"Salvation is by grace through faith," faith in what?"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believed in Him should not perish …" Who is the "Him" Jesus Christ the man crucified and raised, or Jesus Christ the Word of God, (all of it)Look at this text from Rev:Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Doesn't every Christian know the name "Jesus?" why does it say here that it was a name "no man knew?"Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. I think it is because so many are taught the John 3:16 means Jesus Christ crucified and risen, and not Jesus Christ, "THE WORD OF GOD.""Salvation is by grace through faith," faith in Jesus Christ, "THE WORD OF GOD," ALL OF IT.If we only needed a few chapters of Scripture, why did God give us a whole book?Why does Christ tell so many that come to Him at the end, "Depart from Me , I never knew you?" I think it is because so many people are lazy and have not taken the time to study God's WORD, They do not truely kown Jesus Christ, THE WORD OF GOD.
"Salvation is by grace through faith," faith in what?"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believed in Him should not perish …" Who is the "Him" Jesus Christ the man crucified and raised, or Jesus Christ the Word of God, (all of it)Look at this text from Rev:Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. Doesn't every Christian know the name "Jesus?" why does it say here that it was a name "no man knew?"Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. I think it is because so many are taught the John 3:16 means Jesus Christ crucified and risen, and not Jesus Christ, "THE WORD OF GOD.""Salvation is by grace through faith," faith in Jesus Christ, "THE WORD OF GOD," ALL OF IT.If we only needed a few chapters of Scripture, why did God give us a whole book?Why does Christ tell so many that come to Him at the end, "Depart from Me , I never knew you?" I think it is because so many people are lazy and have not taken the time to study God's WORD, They do not truely kown Jesus Christ, THE WORD OF GOD.
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