Millennialism requires understanding of the New Heaven and Earth

[robert derrick]

Here is why it is important to understand a debate about the new vs the old heaven and earth, when teaching the millennialism of Christ on earth.

For most people, there is no debate, but one has been made in order to justify doing away with Christ coming to judge and rule the natural people of the earth: the earthly kingdom of Christ over natural people. When the risen Lord is also King, Ruler, and Judge over all people on earth.

There are two certain prophecies, that requires the Lord to stand on the earth in Person, in order to keep His promise and fulfill prophecy of Scripture.

1. In Gen 13, God promises to give Abraham himself, the land he walked on this earth.

2. Job prophesied in Ch 19, that he will see His Redeemer and God on the earth with his own eyes.

That requires the Lord to be standing on the earth with the resurrected Job seeing Him, as well as the Lord having power over any and all land of this earth, to freely give to Abraham as promised: there is no rule of man nor power of Satan on earth to resist Him. That is what is promised on earth after His second coming.

To reject this, one must either disannull or change the promise and the prophecy.

Anti-earthly kingdom millennialists try to do so, by several devices: Disannulling the promise with the OT, Spiritually fulfilling it in the NT, Leaping over the old to the new earth, or Making the old earth into the new earth, by way of renewal.

The last one is the only one with any possible merit, if it is true.

 

[robert derrick]

The first three attempts disregard the natural first meaning of the promise and prophecy.

1. The promise and prophecy are disannulled with the OT.

The promise of God to Abraham in Gen 13 was between Friends, and was not connected to the covenant promises to come. And the prophecy of Job likewise had nothing to do with covenants between God and His people.

2. The promise and prophecy is only spiritually fulfilled in the NT.

Spiritual understanding of prophecy of Scripture, is not a license to do away with it's natural meaning. Both the spiritual millennial reign of Christ over His own people on earth today, and tomorrow's natural reign of Christ as King over all the people of the earth, are both true.

3. The old earth is lept over, to only be fulfilled on the new earth.

While one prophecy of Scripture can be fulfilled in several events, it does not do away with any one of those events. The last days prophesied by Joel were confirmed by Peter as fulfilled with the Lord's first coming and resurrection from the dead. There remains the last days of His coming again.

And so, the prophecy of Job will first be fulfilled on the earth, that he was suffering on at the time, and will also be fulfilled on the new earth.

 

[robert derrick]

4. It's this last one, if proven, that has any possible merit. It is also the most deceptive.

The problem is that more Scripture must now be removed from it's natural meaning to teach a recreated heaven and earth, where the new heaven and earth is just the same old heaven and earth, But now it has a renewed and restored better finish.

It will be new celestrial and terrestrial bodies made anew on the old foundations of heaven and earth: Like that of classic cars remade upon old frames.

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Like the old heaven and earth, Scripture says the new is created, not renewed nor recreated from an old foundation of creation coming before.

Scripture speaks of the new heaven and earth, as being created, exactly the same way as God created the first heaven and earth. And so, if the new being created, means being recreated or made new again from the old, then the first creation must also be read the same: this heaven and earth is recreated from an old creation from before. And so on and son from the everlasting past.

It's a doctrine of recreation, not creation: God does not create anything new from nothing, but He makes all things anew from something before.

The Scripture would have to say, I recreate a new heavens and new earth. Or I create heaven and earth anew.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

It is true, that someone can read into this new heaven and earth, as being made anew out of the old, even as in being born again a new creature in Christ, where our old lives pass away and are no longer remembered.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

And here again, Scripture can be speaking of the old heaven and earth itself being made new.

But then, that would be speaking of the new heaven and earth as a living person.

Once again, the new heavens and earth is created, not recreated, just as this heaven and earth was created, and not recreated.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

This Scripture ends the debate about the old heaven and earth, still being the renewed heaven and earth of old.

1. The old heaven and earth flees from the face and sight of God. There is no mention of that old heaven and earth being in His sight anew.

2. And finally, the simple words of there being no place found for that old heaven and earth, means there will be no place found for it, to be the newly created heaven and earth of God. It has not only found place in sight of God, but has found itself the place for God Himself to dwell on.

There is no foundation for teaching the foundation of the new heaven and earth, is the old heaven and earth with a newly created face.

There was no place for the old heaven and earth at the final judgment of the dead, and neither will there be any place found for the old, when God creates and makes all things new, and dwells among men.

Once the natural meaning of Scripture is taken away, in order to mean something else, then the natural meaning of words is disannulled, and language no more has any real meaning at all.

There is no place for disannulling any natural meaning of scripture, in order to teach one's own personal faith.

God is a Creator of heavens and earths only, not a recreator of new bodies on old frames.

 

[Rich R]

Here is why it is important to understand a debate about the new vs the old heaven and earth, when teaching the millennialism of Christ on earth.

For most people, there is no debate, but one has been made in order to justify doing away with Christ coming to judge and rule the natural people of the earth: the earthly kingdom of Christ over natural people. When the risen Lord is also King, Ruler, and Judge over all people on earth.

There are two certain prophecies, that requires the Lord to stand on the earth in Person, in order to keep His promise and fulfill prophecy of Scripture.

1. In Gen 13, God promises to give Abraham himself, the land he walked on this earth.

2. Job prophesied in Ch 19, that he will see His Redeemer and God on the earth with his own eyes.

That requires the Lord to be standing on the earth with the resurrected Job seeing Him, as well as the Lord having power over any and all land of this earth, to freely give to Abraham as promised: there is no rule of man nor power of Satan on earth to resist Him. That is what is promised on earth after His second coming.

To reject this, one must either disannull or change the promise and the prophecy.

Anti-earthly kingdom millennialists try to do so, by several devices: Disannulling the promise with the OT, Spiritually fulfilling it in the NT, Leaping over the old to the new earth, or Making the old earth into the new earth, by way of renewal.

The last one is the only one with any possible merit, if it is true.

I think there will be two time periods, a millennial kingdom and an everlasting kingdom.

Revelation 19 & 20 talks about the first kingdom that will begin after the battle of Armageddon. It will last 1,000 years, hence the name millennial. The devil is bound up during this 1,000 year kingdom but then he is released to make another war against the saints but this time fire comes down from heaven, God defeats him and throws him into the lake of fire. That's the end of him. All of that is in Rev 19 & 20. It does indeed appear to be a renewal of this earth. Jesus will rule over that kingdom and he won't stand for all the sin and idiotic woke ideas we see today.

Once the devil is cast into the lake of fire, this heaven and earth will be destroyed and replaced by a brand new heaven and earth. That is an everlasting kingdom. It is described in Rev 21 & 22.

Revelation sure seems to read that way to me.

 

[liafailrock]

Here is why it is important to understand a debate about the new vs the old heaven and earth, when teaching the millennialism of Christ on earth.

For most people, there is no debate, but one has been made in order to justify doing away with Christ coming to judge and rule the natural people of the earth: the earthly kingdom of Christ over natural people. When the risen Lord is also King, Ruler, and Judge over all people on earth.

There are two certain prophecies, that requires the Lord to stand on the earth in Person, in order to keep His promise and fulfill prophecy of Scripture.

1. In Gen 13, God promises to give Abraham himself, the land he walked on this earth.

2. Job prophesied in Ch 19, that he will see His Redeemer and God on the earth with his own eyes.

That requires the Lord to be standing on the earth with the resurrected Job seeing Him, as well as the Lord having power over any and all land of this earth, to freely give to Abraham as promised: there is no rule of man nor power of Satan on earth to resist Him. That is what is promised on earth after His second coming.

To reject this, one must either disannull or change the promise and the prophecy.

Anti-earthly kingdom millennialists try to do so, by several devices: Disannulling the promise with the OT, Spiritually fulfilling it in the NT, Leaping over the old to the new earth, or Making the old earth into the new earth, by way of renewal.

The last one is the only one with any possible merit, if it is true.

I'm with you. I would also say that the whole of the Abrahamic promises (and others that followed thereafter such as Davidic) were all earthly promises to position a future Kingdom of God starting with Israel, and then the heavenly when believers would become priests and Kings (along with the King of Kings Revelation 1:6) in their glorified form to instruct the remaining humanity for their salvation, aka the Millennium. This is ultimately realized with the new heaven and earth afterwards. God wanted a family and Kingdom and thru Christ He righted what Adam did wrong. Had Adam obeyed, all that would have started then.

 

[robert derrick]

I think there will be two time periods, a millennial kingdom and an everlasting kingdom.

Revelation 19 & 20 talks about the first kingdom that will begin after the battle of Armageddon. It will last 1,000 years, hence the name millennial. The devil is bound up during this 1,000 year kingdom but then he is released to make another war against the saints but this time fire comes down from heaven, God defeats him and throws him into the lake of fire. That's the end of him. All of that is in Rev 19 & 20. It does indeed appear to be a renewal of this earth. Jesus will rule over that kingdom and he won't stand for all the sin and idiotic woke ideas we see today.

Once the devil is cast into the lake of fire, this heaven and earth will be destroyed and replaced by a brand new heaven and earth. That is an everlasting kingdom. It is described in Rev 21 & 22.

Revelation sure seems to read that way to me.

True. that's the simple reading of Scripture.

The renewing of the rule over the earth as intended from the beginning will be with Christ's reign.

Afterward this heaven and earth will melt, and a new heaven and earth will be created for God to dwell among men.

Simple.

 

[robert derrick]

I'm with you. I would also say that the whole of the Abrahamic promises (and others that followed thereafter such as Davidic) were all earthly promises to position a future Kingdom of God starting with Israel, and then the heavenly when believers would become priests and Kings (along with the King of Kings Revelation 1:6) in their glorified form to instruct the remaining humanity for their salvation, aka the Millennium. This is ultimately realized with the new heaven and earth afterwards. God wanted a family and Kingdom and thru Christ He righted what Adam did wrong. Had Adam obeyed, all that would have started then.

The first Adam failed to have righteous dominion over the earth, The Second won't.

 

[liafailrock]

The first Adam failed to have righteous dominion over the earth, The Second won't.

Excellent! You said it all without being verbose like I am. LOL

 

[robert derrick]

Excellent! You said it all without being verbose like I am. LOL

You led the way. I just summed up.

 

[Bob Estey]

Here is why it is important to understand a debate about the new vs the old heaven and earth, when teaching the millennialism of Christ on earth.

For most people, there is no debate, but one has been made in order to justify doing away with Christ coming to judge and rule the natural people of the earth: the earthly kingdom of Christ over natural people. When the risen Lord is also King, Ruler, and Judge over all people on earth.

There are two certain prophecies, that requires the Lord to stand on the earth in Person, in order to keep His promise and fulfill prophecy of Scripture.

1. In Gen 13, God promises to give Abraham himself, the land he walked on this earth.

2. Job prophesied in Ch 19, that he will see His Redeemer and God on the earth with his own eyes.

That requires the Lord to be standing on the earth with the resurrected Job seeing Him, as well as the Lord having power over any and all land of this earth, to freely give to Abraham as promised: there is no rule of man nor power of Satan on earth to resist Him. That is what is promised on earth after His second coming.

To reject this, one must either disannull or change the promise and the prophecy.

Anti-earthly kingdom millennialists try to do so, by several devices: Disannulling the promise with the OT, Spiritually fulfilling it in the NT, Leaping over the old to the new earth, or Making the old earth into the new earth, by way of renewal.

The last one is the only one with any possible merit, if it is true.

I think the new heaven and earth are life after we've repented of our sin.

 

[robert derrick]

I think there will be two time periods, a millennial kingdom and an everlasting kingdom.

Revelation 19 & 20 talks about the first kingdom that will begin after the battle of Armageddon. It will last 1,000 years, hence the name millennial. The devil is bound up during this 1,000 year kingdom but then he is released to make another war against the saints but this time fire comes down from heaven, God defeats him and throws him into the lake of fire. That's the end of him. All of that is in Rev 19 & 20. It does indeed appear to be a renewal of this earth. Jesus will rule over that kingdom and he won't stand for all the sin and idiotic woke ideas we see today.

Once the devil is cast into the lake of fire, this heaven and earth will be destroyed and replaced by a brand new heaven and earth. That is an everlasting kingdom. It is described in Rev 21 & 22.

Revelation sure seems to read that way to me.

The problem is that many times people don't just read the Bible as written, but the way they want it to be written.

Scripture makes just as much sense as anyone else writing a book in order to instruct people with.

It's the book of Revelation, not the book of confusing mystery and symbol, that many people try make it out to be.

The real problem is that many people prefer making things more complex than they are, because they prefer intellectual stimulation, more than simple instruction.

Why be simply iunstructed, when you can make yourself intellectually stimulated. :cool: :)