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Featured Misfit of the 20th century

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by GerhardEbersoehn, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    February 1958....

    In order to textual wording and textual sequence, contextual position and contextual relevancy, chronological stipulation and chronological inevitability, and logical definition and logical inference to historical setting or background and historical event or reality, there is this one misfit among ‘~Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14,31,42~’, viz, John 19:14.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    And the point/question is?
     
  3. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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  4. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Wrote Bauer,
    "Dem Leser werden die von der Wissenschaft ermittelten 'Bedeutungen' nicht nur einfach mitgeteilt, sondern es wird ihm in möglichst reichem Masse der gelehrte Stoff, den die alten Quellen und die Gegenwartsarbeit ergeben haben, als Grundlage für eine eigene Urteilsbildung vorgelegt.”
    ... simply meaning to say, he put this ‘stuff’ together in such a manner and way as scholars have for long tried to do, so that the reader can see and understand for himself.

    Therefore, see for yourself and make up your own mind, Was Bauer successful in his attempt, or not? There is nothing that can prevent you from doing just that, To see for yourself WHY and HOW John 19:14 is the misfit in Bauer’s putting together of ‘~Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14,31,42~’.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Because I had trouble understanding the what was meant by the following words: -

    It was all as meaningless as a when a turkey is gobbling. The quoted portion of your OP needs explaining in simpler terms so that us poor readers can understand the point of the question otherwise it is a pointless collection of words. You may know what you are talking about, but us poor plebs, like me, cannot get our laughing matter around it. Know what I mean?
     
    Nancy and bbyrd009 like this.
  6. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean. I'll put it another way, Read John only. Read from 13:1 to 31, that's in the night before "the Lord was betrayed" 1Corinthians 11:23.
    You do agree? How not?
    Fine. Chapter 14,15 and 16 are "words Jesus spake" 16:1 and closed with his Gethsemane prayer in chapter 17, That Selfsame Night?
    Do you agree? I cannot see how not?
    So, That Selfsame Night still, "when Jesus had spoken these words, He went forth with his disciples over the Dark Brook (Cedron) and Judas also who betrayed Him" That Selfsame Night?!
    That Selfsame Night indeed!
    And you know the story further, How that Jesus was taken to Trial "That Selfsame Night Whole Night" still!
    Then: "Six o'clock in the morning" Jesus was brought out from the governor Pilate's house and setting out for Golgotha, began to carry his cross, That Selfsame Day sunrise!
    True or false? I see you say, Of course, true! Of course yes, True!

    Then what happened next, That Selfsame Day?
    They Crucified Jesus. We also know that they crucified Him 9 o'clock That Selfsame Day, and that at noon there came darkness over all the land That Selfsame Day, daylight time! Until 3 p.m. we know, 3 p.m. That Selfsame Day and Jesus called out with a Great Voice and gave the ghost.

    Where are you reading the Gospel of John, now?
    You are reading verse 30!
    So, everything you have thus far read, was what happened on "The Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" you have read about already back there in John 13:1 In Substance That Selfsame Day Whole Day "when they always had to KILL the passover" which was the fourteenth day of the First Month for Israel.

    Is this true, that is, is this "according to the Scriptures", viz., the Gospel of John?

    YES OR NO!?

    Let us now read the other three Gospels at the same place in history and Scripture ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  7. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    So, your point is the Gospel of John is not Scripture.

    Why do you say (John 13:1-31) is the night before Jesus was betrayed. Concerning Judas, Christ said that night, "He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night." To which (1 Cor. 11:23) agrees. "...That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:"

    Stranger
     
  8. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Not I, but John wrote that it was the "night", "IN" which, Jesus "was betrayed", not, '~the night _before_ Jesus was betrayed~'. Where is your christianity! Where is your character with accusing me like I'm a blasphemer, whose '~point is the Gospel of John is not Scripture~'! Have you no shame? No self-respect to sink so low?
     
  9. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Please. You're the one who said it was the night before. See post #6. But (John 13:1-31) agrees with (1 Cor. 11:23). So, what is the problem?

    And, you're the one casting doubt on the testimony of John. Not me.

    Stranger
     
  10. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    And so you carry on with your LIE, unperturbed, shameless, that I '~said it was the night before~' persisting in your FALSE accusation that I '~cast doubt on John~'!

    I said, I wrote, "Read from 13:1 to 31, that's in the night before "the Lord was betrayed". "THAT IS IN THE NIGHT". Do you r-e-a-d?! Plus, ELEVEN times I wrote it was "That Selfsame Night" or "That Selfsame Day".
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  11. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    ... Let us now read the other three Gospels at the same place in history and Scripture "in the night the Lord was betrayed"...

    The Lord's Supper...
    In John it was from 13:1 to 19:30;
    In Mark it was from 14:12 to 15:41;
    In Matthew it was from 26:17 to 27:56;
    In Luke it was from 22:7 to 23:49.

    Then after it had been the "evening", the same place in history and Scripture "That Night" went on...

    Peter denies the Lord...
    in John in 13:1-30 with chapters 14-17 until "the cock (should) crow" in 18:38;
    in Mark in 14:12-17 until "the cock crew" in 72;
    in Matthew in 26:17-20 until "This Night the cock crew" in 74;
    in Luke in 22:7-14 until 23:34 "This Day the cock crew" in 61.

    Then after Peter had denied the Lord, the same place in history and Scripture as in John in "That Night" when Judas had "betrayed the Lord", "That Selfsame Day" went on further...

    Trial until Pilate delivered Jesus over to be crucified...
    in John from "early" in 18:28 until "the sixth hour" Roman time in 19:14;
    in Mark from "in the morning" 15:1 until "they led Him out to crucify Him" in 20;
    in Matthew "when the morning was come" in 26:74 until "they led Him away to crucify Him" in 27:31;
    in Luke "This your Hour and the power of darkness" in 22:53 until "as they led Him away" in 26.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  12. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I can read. That is what you said. If you disagree with what you wrote, maybe you should write a little better. Instead of writing in a fog, write with some clarity.

    Stranger
     
  13. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You cannot read! No, you can read, but you cannot help to LIE because you will not admit your cowardice.
     
  14. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Easy big fella. Sit down, have a beer and relax.

    Stranger
     
  15. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    ... Let us now read the other three Gospels at the same place in history and Scripture in the daylight of That Day the Lord was betrayed...


    Day one: Preparation of the Passover [2Chronicles 35] “Twelve hours in the day” Way of Suffering, and Golgotha

    Day one: The sixth hour" (RT) to "the third hour" (JT) (6a.m. – 9a.m.) [Leviticus 23:21,22]
    John 19:14 (168)
    Day one: Led away to be crucified
    John 19:16b (168)
    Mark 15:20b (168)
    Matthew 27:31b (168)
    John 19:17 (169)
    Day one: Simon of Cyrene [Leviticus 23:10]
    Mark 15:21 (169)
    Matthew 27:32 (169)
    Luke 23:26 (170)
    Day one: Many follow
    Luke 23:27 (170)
    Day one: Engraved Accusation [Colossians 2:14,15]
    Mark 15:26 (170)
    Matthew 27:37 (170)
    Luke 23:38 (170)
    John 19:19-22 (171)
    Day one: Daughters of Zion
    Luke 23:28-31 (172)
    Day one: The third hour to the sixth hour (9a.m.-12a.m.)
    Day one:
    Arrived at Golgotha
    John 19:17 (173)
    Mark 15:22 (173)
    Matthew 27:33 (173)
    Luke 23:33a (173)
    Day one: All see
    Luke 23:35,48 (173)
    Mark 15:40 (173)
    Matthew 27:55,56 (174)
    Day one: Vinegar presented
    Markus 15:23 (175)
    Matteus 27:34b (175)
    Day one:the third hour”: they crucified Him
    John 19: 17,18a (175)
    Mark 15:24a,25 (175)
    Luke 23:33,34 (175)
    Matthew 27:35a (176)
    Day one: with two other
    Matthew 27:38 (176)
    John 19:18b (176)
    Mark 15:27,28 (176)
    Luke 23:32,33 (176)
    Day one: divided his clothes
    Luke 23:34 (177)
    Mark 15:24 (177)
    John 19:23,24 (177)
    Matthew 27:35 (178)
    Day one: Guarded
    Matthew 27:36 (178)
    Day one: they railed on Him
    Mark 15:29-32 (178)
    Matthew 27:39-44 (179)
    Luke 23:35b-37 (180)
    Luke 23:39-43 (181)
    Day one: Jesus' mother and John
    John 19:25-27 (182)
    Day one: The sixth hour to the ninth hour” : “there was darkness
    Mark 15:33b (183)
    Matthew 27:45 (183)
    Luke 23:44,45 (183)
    Day one: the ninth hour” to the ‘twelfth hour(3 p.m. – 6 p.m.)
    [Psalm 22:1,20-25]
    Day one: the ninth hour” : “whereunto Thou hast separated Me
    Mark 15:34,35 (184)
    Matthew 27:46,47 (184)
    Day one: I thirst
    John 12:28 (185)
    Day one: vinegar on a stick [Ps51:7 Lv14:52 Hb9]
    John 19:29 (185)
    Mark 15:36 (185)
    Matthew 27:48,49 (186)
    Day one: It is finished” : I commend my spirit
    John 19:30 (186)
    Mark 15:37 (186)
    Matthew 27:50 (186)
    Luke 23:46 (186)
    Day one: Earthquake
    Matthew 27:51b (187)
    Day one: graves opened
    Matthew 27:52a (187)
    Day one: veil was rent [Hebrews 10:20]
    Matthew 27:51a (187)
    Mark 15:38 (187)
    Day one: the centurion
    Mark 15:39 (187)
    Matthew 27:54 (188)
    Luke 23:47 (188)
    Day one: There were many women
    Mark 15:40,41 (188)
    Matthew 27:55,56 (189)
    Day one: Everybody fled and returned back home
    Luke 23:48,49 (189)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  16. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Now for the rest of Bauer's 'Preparation FRIDAYS'. You will find them in Bauer's collection, '~Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14,31,42~' recorded in connection with Joseph of Arimathea, AFTER "evening had come" ... all, EXCEPT John 19:14! John 19:14 is the misfit because the Preparation mentioned in John 19:14 was not "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath EVENING having come" in '~Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31,42~', but "the Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" MORNING HAVING COME ON THAT DAY THE WHOLE DAY, THE DAY BEFORE!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  17. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Twenty first century disciples of Walter Bauer...

    Kösterman

    Crucifixion on the Day of Preparation for the Passover

    John mentions that Jesus was crucified on “the day of Preparation” (John 19:31), that is, the Friday before the Sabbath of Passover week (Mark 15:42). The night before, on Thursday evening, Jesus ate a Passover meal with the twelve (Mark 14:12). In the Pharisaic-rabbinic calendar commonly used in Jesus’s day, Passover always falls on the fourteenth day of Nisan (Exodus 12:6), which begins Thursday after sundown and ends Friday at sundown. In the year AD 33, the most likely year of Jesus’s Crucifixion, Nisan 14 fell on April 3, yielding April 3, AD 33, as the most likely date for the Crucifixion.

    Where have the free men, all Protestants, of the Reformation gone?

    After the great harlot chaperone of Easter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  18. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    ...and still, they sing the virtues of John Calvin . . . God, help us!
     
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Wow

    Bored much, Gerhard?
     
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Because there are no *misfits* in Scripture.

    PASSOVER MORNING
    And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King...

    PASSOVER EVENING
    And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath...And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

    FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD (A HIGH SABBATH)
    Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate...
     
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