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Featured Missing Scripture

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by marks, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That which appears in the New Testament . . .

    Hebrews 1 (KJV)
    5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    Does not appear in the Old Testament . . .

    Deuteronomy 32 (KJV)
    42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
    43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

    . . . except in the Septuagint.

    Deuteronomy 32 (LXX)
    42 I will make my weapons drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh, with the blood of the wounded, and from the captivity of the heads of enemies that rule over them.
    43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people.

    Any particulary reason?

    Much love!
     
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  2. firstthings1st.

    firstthings1st. Well-Known Member

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    Amen, We will be in prayer for the above.
     
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Here is another place:

    Acts 7 (KJV)
    42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
    43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
    44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.

    Similar to . . .

    Amos 5 (KJV)
    25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
    26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

    But more like . . .

    Amos 5 (LXX)
    25 Have ye offered to me victims and sacrifices, O house of Israel, forty years in the wilderness?
    26 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan, the images of them which ye made for yourselves.

    ?
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    It does but phrased differently. I will post the relevant Scripture later.
     
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  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Interesting response. The quote is there from the LXX, or it's there from the Masoretic, but different. Hm.
     
  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    This is the nature of revelations:

    Isaiah 28:10
    "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.

    1 Corinthians 3:10
    "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it."
     
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  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    HI Scott,

    That Isaiah passage, I don't think that's really what God was talking about.

    Isaiah 28 KJV
    7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
    8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
    9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
    10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
    12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
    13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    From the NIV:

    All the tables are covered with vomit
    and there is not a spot without filth.

    9 “Who is it he is trying to teach?
    To whom is he explaining his message?
    To children weaned from their milk,
    to those just taken from the breast?
    10 For it is:
    Do this, do that,
    a rule for this, a rule for thata]">[a];
    a little here, a little there.”

    11 Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
    God will speak to this people,
    12 to whom he said,
    “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;
    and, “This is the place of repose”—
    but they would not listen.
    13 So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
    Do this, do that,
    a rule for this, a rule for that;
    a little here, a little there—
    so that as they go they will fall backward;
    they will be injured and snared and captured.

    From the NLT:

    Now, however, Israel is led by drunks
    who reel with wine and stagger with alcohol.
    The priests and prophets stagger with alcohol
    and lose themselves in wine.
    They reel when they see visions
    and stagger as they render decisions.
    8 Their tables are covered with vomit;
    filth is everywhere.
    9 “Who does the Lord think we are?” they ask.
    “Why does he speak to us like this?
    Are we little children,
    just recently weaned?
    10 He tells us everything over and over—
    one line at a time,
    one line at a time,
    a little here,
    and a little there!”

    11 So now God will have to speak to his people
    through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language!
    12 God has told his people,
    “Here is a place of rest;
    let the weary rest here.
    This is a place of quiet rest.”
    But they would not listen.
    13 So the Lord will spell out his message for them again,
    one line at a time,
    one line at a time,
    a little here,
    and a little there,
    so that they will stumble and fall.
    They will be injured, trapped, and captured.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    It's not about giving a little doctrine here, a little there, was we collect all these pieces together in understanding.

    God is telling Isreal you are all a bunch of little babies and I have to teach you like little babies! They complain, you teach us like we're just weaned! That's right, that's how it's going to be, and you won't tolerate it, and will fall.

    Much love!
     
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  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No, I agree, and that is my point. And here we are needing milk again even when the scriptures themselves by the mouth of two or three are not understood to mean that the full word was not given then, but now is.

    Even the apostles could not bear all that the Lord had to say when He came to Jerusalem for the last time in the flesh as the Son. And here we are again even today needing milk and flesh, when He has given us all things in spirit. Many turn back to the Egypt of the written word -- but the tomb is empty for a reason: salvation is only written there, but not fulfilled there.

    Return not to the foundation. Press on to that higher calling which the Lord Himself has entered into. Follow Him.
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    We definitely have a different regard for the Bible.

    Much love!
     
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  10. icxn

    icxn Active Member

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    Here's the LXX version for reference:

    LXX Isaiah 28:
    9 To whom have we reported evils? and to whom have we reported a message? [even to those] that are weaned from the milk, who are drawn from the breast. 10 Accept thou affliction on affliction, hope upon hope: yet a little, [and] yet a little, 11 by reason of the contemptuous [words] of the lips, by means of another language: for they shall speak to this people, saying to them, 12 This is the rest to him that is hungry, and this is the calamity: but they would not hear. 13 Therefore the oracle of God shall be to them affliction on affliction, hope on hope, yet a little, [and] yet a little, that they may go and fall backward; and they shall be crushed and shall be in danger, and shall be taken.​

    Is it possible that the prophet is speaking about the coming of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles when they were ridiculed by means of contemptuous words (being drunk) for speaking in different languages?
     
  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi icxn,

    That's my understanding, that God is basically telling the people, I teach you like babies because that is how you act, and I'm going to keep teaching you like babies, and you won't tolerate it, and will stumble because if that, and, in fact, I'm even going to teach you not just in baby-talk, but in languages you don't even know!

    My thinking . . .

    much love!
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Well, don't misunderstand. I love the word in scripture -- I stand on it. It is the foundation for all that has been revealed to men in the world. It's just that the kingdom of God is not of this world...and at some point we must leave every element behind if we are to follow Christ in going to the Father, without looking back (as did Lot's wife).
     
  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I think I do understand. And we have a very very different regard for the Bible.

    And it seems to me that when you say "foundation", you mean just the starting point. And in fact you regard your personal revelations more highly than the Bible, is that not true?

    Much love!
     
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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Something which Christians should note is that the Holy Spirit has given the words in both the Old and New Testaments by divine inspiration. But quite often, they will not be exact or precise quotes by Christ and the apostles, and since the Spirit is the Author, it is His prerogative to quote whichever way He chooses through holy men of God, omitting or adding words, or even altering the word order.

    We know from Luke 24 that the Lord and the apostles were NOT using the corrupted Greek Septuagint (LXX) but strictly the pure Hebrew Tanakh (24 books consisting of the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms), which they called "the Holy Scriptures" and treated them as the Word of God.

    So when we turn to Hebrews 1:6 (as well as 1:8-14) we will find the OT quoted somewhat different, Now where does it say in the OT "And let all the angels of God worship him"?

    It is stated in Psalm 103:20,21, where the word "bless" is used for worship, since to bless God is indeed to worship Him. But here it is God the Son who is to be worshiped: Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. Bless ye the LORD, all ye his [angelic] hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure...

    But Heb 1:6 also says this:And again, when he [the Father] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Son] into the world, he saith...

    "The firstbegotten" is "the only begotten Son of God" (Jesus, the eternal Word) and that begetting took place in eternity past (since the Godhead has always exist). So when the Scripture says "when He bringeth the firstbegotten into the world" it is a reference to the point at which God created the angels (when He created the heavens) and then the world, and then the Father immediately commanded all the angels to worship the eternal Son, because He too is God. It would appear from Job that the angels witnessed the rest of God's creative acts and rejoiced with Him.

    And this is confirmed for us in Hebrews 1:8,9:
    But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    Now this is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7, and the words are slightly different in our Bibles: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
     
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  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'm certain we agree here.

    And while I've heard this many many times, I remain unconvinced. Did the Word of the OT have to be improved for the NT?

    Where in that chapter can I find that?

    Seems to me that the quotes are more direct from the LXX. I'm sure we can piece together any NT reference, but if there is a word for word from another source, why not look at that?

    Much love!
     
  16. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No, I have no "personal revelations" per say. What God reveals by persons, is not personal in the way that you consider it. However, it is a biblical fact that God does reveal His revelations through [individual] persons.

    As for regarding what comes first by revelation from God or what comes after, I regard them equally. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. By which we know that the words of Christ are indeed spirit, whether visible or invisible.
     
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  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    By personal, I refer to "revelations individual to you".

    There is the Book, which is the same to all, and then you have revelations that God has given to you, regarding how we should understand the Book, and these understandings are to be used, even it it might seem to conflict. Any conflict would actually simply mean that the person who perceives a conflict just doesn't know the Book.

    Is that correct?
     
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    instead of quoting Psalm 103:20,21, why not quote Nehemiah 9:6 "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee". READ Gill's commentary on the last part of the verse. the host of heaven is chiefly angels. you might want to make a cross reference between Hebrews 1:6 and Nehemiah 9:6

    Lastly,
    ,
    "God, thy God?", the same person diversified, supportive scriprure, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name". my God turned out to be "me" JESUS says... :eek: say what? for who name did he, JESUS, write? ...... his own name .. :D

    read that verse again, aind see who is "my God" ........ it's me, JESUS

    PICJAG.
     
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member

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    From what I’ve read, many scholars think the writers of the NT quoted from the LXX. Put that in the FWIW file.
     
  20. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No, not exactly. That defense would have wrongly justified the Pharisees, the Leaders of Israel, and the Lawyers.

    You speak of "the Book", but I also speak of "the Books." And just like those who accused Christ of being of the devil, they too did not know that the kingdom had come upon them...which I am not announcing, but claiming as having been announced already.

    The conflict is in you, and in those who see but do not perceive, and hear but do not understand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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