morals?

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DPMartin

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what makes morals, morals? just what is moral and why? animals don't have morals, why do men deal with morals one way or the other?

I suspect there is a whole lot of assumptions on this one.
 

Windmillcharge

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Things are 'good'because it is Gods nature to be 'good' so what God says is good is good.
God has revealed to us his moral commands the 10 commandments to guide us and teach us about God.
 

DPMartin

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Things are 'good'because it is Gods nature to be 'good' so what God says is good is good.
God has revealed to us his moral commands the 10 commandments to guide us and teach us about God.


well it is true that God is good and Jesus says only God is good, so therefore God is good for His creation that is the Judge of what is good in and for His creation. but the ten commandments are an agreement between God and the Children of Israel, note that He called the commandments a covenant and a covenant is a agreement a contract. therefore morals are an agreement. same in the garden the commandment was the agreement between God and Adam of which all the sons of man experience the out come of. same with Noah all the sons of Noah that God made a covenant with experience the out come of that agreement in which all the sons of Noah could find grace in God's sight. not will, but could. also the covenant with Abraham and the sons of Abraham chosen by God, Isaac not Ishmael, and Jacob not Esau, experienced the out come of that agreement. of which they Children of Jacob (Israel) still experience to day.

some one walks in a store, by default he agrees to pay for anything he intends to leave with that is for sale. in that agreement is the morals. no agreements no morals.
 

Windmillcharge

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the ten commandments are an agreement between God and the Children of Israel
That is not how Paul views the law in Romans. There he views the law as being universal for All mankind and for all time as a means of defining what sin is.
 

Windmillcharge

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and where is that?
romans 4: 13.It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath.And where there is no law there is no transgression
and
Romans 5:12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
and 20. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
and romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace?
repeatedly Paul talks about the law to those who do not have the law, Abraham, gentile Christians etc Gods law is universal.
 

DPMartin

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romans 4: 13.It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath.And where there is no law there is no transgression
and
Romans 5:12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
and 20. The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
and romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace?
repeatedly Paul talks about the law to those who do not have the law, Abraham, gentile Christians etc Gods law is universal.


sorry don't see "Gods law is universal" stated here at all. it may be what you think of it, but that isn't what the subject here is at all is it? if you want to talk law and sin against it is one thing. but again the ten commandments are a covenant God says they are a covenant hence an agreement, a contract. because that is what a covenant is.

now an agreement and breach of the agreement in this case is sin. but that's not what this is about.

and Paul is a scholar of the law therefore he knows its a covenant as God said it is in the Torah:

Exo_34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

also here Paul talks about the covenants


Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb_8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb_9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb_10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb_10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb_13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,





now how covenant with God is to all is the covenant with Adam and his children and with Noah and his children, but the covenant of God in the circumcised is with Abraham and his children. God made a covenant ( agreement) with the children if Israel via Moses not the rest of the world. the covenant in Christ is to the world as in those who come into to that agreement. the rest of the gentile world is still under Adam and Noah. and the children of Israel that are not in Christ are still under Abraham and Moses.

hence an agreement covenant contract that God will keep. note that all children of Adam are born into sin why because that is the result of the covenant with the Lord God in the garden. hence born into condemnation by no fault of your own. so anything after that doesn't make you more condemned. there's no such thing as condemning the condemned. but making it possible to find Grace in God's sight, that is the result of Noah's life and his children. making it possible to walk in the faith and be found righteous in God's sight that is to Abraham and his children. note this goes through Grace by faith here, and therefore the hope of redemption.


but back to morals. the agreement is the morals simple as that.
 
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Windmillcharge

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sorry don't see "Gods law is universal" stated here at all. it may be what you think of it, but that isn't what the subject here is at all is it? if you want to talk law and sin against it is one thing. but again the ten commandments are a covenant God says they are a covenant hence an agreement, a contract. because that is what a covenant is.

now an agreement and breach of the agreement in this case is sin. but that's not what this is about.

and Paul is a scholar of the law therefore he knows its a covenant as God said it is in the Torah:

Exo_34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. 28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

also here Paul talks about the covenants


Heb_8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb_8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb_9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb_10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb_10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb_13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,





now how covenant with God is to all is the covenant with Adam and his children and with Noah and his children, but the covenant of God in the circumcised is with Abraham and his children. God made a covenant ( agreement) with the children if Israel via Moses not the rest of the world. the covenant in Christ is to the world as in those who come into to that agreement. the rest of the gentile world is still under Adam and Noah. and the children of Israel that are not in Christ are still under Abraham and Moses.

hence an agreement covenant contract that God will keep. note that all children of Adam are born into sin why because that is the result of the covenant with the Lord God in the garden. hence born into condemnation by no fault of your own. so anything after that doesn't make you more condemned. there's no such thing as condemning the condemned. but making it possible to find Grace in God's sight, that is the result of Noah's life and his children. making it possible to walk in the faith and be found righteous in God's sight that is to Abraham and his children. note this goes through Grace by faith here, and therefore the hope of redemption.


but back to morals. the agreement is the morals simple as that.

So Paul is wrong when he says "And where there is no law there is no transgression"