My 'brush' with Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

[Mike Waters]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

 

[The wind]

Receiving the Holy Spirit comes with a vision of Christ crucified. Without this witness you are no witness of God. We speak that we do know and testify that we have seen, as it is written.

 

[reformed1689]

Receiving the Holy Spirit comes with a vision of Christ crucified. Without this witness you are no witness of God. We speak that we do know and testify that we have seen, as it is written.

What do you mean comes with a vision of Christ crucified?

 

[The wind]

What do you mean comes with a vision of Christ crucified?

How is it that you ask what I mean and yet call yourself a Christian?

 

[reformed1689]

How is it that you ask what I mean and yet call yourself a Christian?

Because I want to know what YOU mean when you say that. Why not just answer my question?

 

[The wind]

Because I want to know what YOU mean when you say that. Why not just answer my question?

Because I know the intent of your heart.

 

[Episkopos]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

People tend to mix up tongues with the baptism in the Spirit. This is not an issue of something being manifested (or faked) outwardly....but an inward connection to God.

I find that people like to exaggerate their own connection to God...which makes investigating genuine experiences very difficult. There is so much dishonesty in the church these days...due to indoctrination.

But regardless we are called to follow after righteousness, humility and the fear of the Lord. That is something we can do actively. Any higher walk than what we can do in the power of man...can only be initiated by God.

I see this like the acceptance of a baseball player into the major leagues. No one makes that happen...you are called up. You are, as a ball player, trying to be worthy and ready for if and when that call comes. And few are called up.

This is akin to the "high calling" in Christ.

And then there is the training camp. Not everybody who is called up is accepted on the team.

But there is still the minors...all the way up to AAA.

 

[reformed1689]

Because I know the intent of your heart.

You don't know me so you can't possibly say that. You are not God. Now why not just answer my question? What do you mean about a vision of the crucifixion otherwise you are not saved?

 

[Enoch111]

...I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

Since there is a whole spectrum of beliefs out there, you don't have to be influenced necessarily by what others believe. I am a Cessationist also, but if others choose to believe differently that's their choice.

 

[The wind]

People tend to mix up tongues with the baptism in the Spirit. This is not an issue of something being manifested (or faked) outwardly....but an inward connection to God.

I find that people like to exaggerate their own connection to God...which makes investigating genuine experiences very difficult. There is so much dishonesty in the church these days...due to indoctrination.

But regardless we are called to follow after righteousness, humility and the fear of the Lord. That is something we can do actively. Any higher walk than what we can do in the power of man...can only be initiated by God.

I see this like the acceptance of a baseball player into the major leagues. No one makes that happen...you are called up. You are, as a ball player, trying to be worthy and ready for if and when that call comes. And few are called up.

This is akin to the "high calling" in Christ.

And then there is the training camp. Not everybody who is called up is accepted on the team.

But there is still the minors...all the way up to AAA.

You know

You don't know me so you can't possibly say that. You are not God. Now why not just answer my question? What do you mean about a vision of the crucifixion otherwise you are not saved?

I know you that you have not the love of Christ in you.

 

[reformed1689]

You know

I know you that you have not the love of Christ in you.

So why can you not answer the question? Is it because you are just blowing smoke?

 

[Nancy]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

Hi Mike,
Thank you for your honesty. "I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve." Your words alone tell me that you do have the Spirit in you. We are all out of step on here as, nobody agrees 100% with any one person. I have questioned the same things you have about being baptized in the Holy Spirit. My belief is that we were baptized into the Holy Spirit the moment we believed on Christ. I had to keep telling myself..."it's not a feeling, it's a Truth". I never spoke in tongues (except for faking it when I first became a Christian) I do not understand it, I do know that not all speak in tongues, as The Word tells us. I too was as honest and open to "receive" this when I was at that very Pentecostal Church. I questioned my salvation and lost faith. I am back stronger than ever now and have grown quite a bit. Just remember it is NOT a feeling, nor all the sensationalism...it is Christ in you, alone!
God bless you and may He grow your faith in leaps and bounds!

 

[marks]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

Do any of us agree on everything? But if you think you maybe shouldn't continue, maybe you shouldn't. I don't think forums are actually conducive to true discipling. I think we should only participate to the extent our conscience tells us to.

Much love!

 

[The wind]

So why can you not answer the question? Is it because you are just blowing smoke?

I will give an answer to the intent of your heart: He that shall speak evil against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven.

 

[reformed1689]

I will give an answer to the intent of your heart: He that shall speak evil against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven.

You have no way of knowing the intent of my heart. You made a bold claim about seeing visions being necessary for salvation. If it is necessary for salvation you have a duty to proclaim that Gospel and explain what that means.

 

[ScottA]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

If your "intellectually implausible" position paints you as never having "inhaled" or as "half pregnant", you will indeed suffer no high and even stillbirth.

 

[Waiting on him]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

Bottoms line is this only claimed of certain religious sects, to me this speaks volumes, and also as you stated it only resurfaced within the last few hundred years.
This is dangerous in my opinion. My view is if we claim that things we do are by the power of the Holy Spirit and are being fraudulent we are blasphemous, not something I care to participate in.

 

[mjrhealth]

Almost 5 years have passed since I made an OP in another forum under the following link (Click into it if you wish) livingwater.createaforum.com/general-discussion/is-it-possible/.
During that time I've trolled around other forums and experienced quite vicious condemnation re my convictions ... totally the opposite of the gentle, loving, and understanding responses that characterised the above thread.
Sadly (maybe) I still haven't changed.
I am reminded of the time when I was a very young believer and found myself in the company of three 'Pentecostal' brothers who asked if they could lay hands on me and pray that I might receive the 'Baptism in the Holy Spirit'.
At that time I truly believe that I had a totally open mind and I asked God to grant them their wish (but with the proviso that it should only happen if it really was God's will that it should)
After the three had spent a long time getting increasingly fervent in their endeavours I found that nothing happened and they abandoned me with the declaration that it was entirely due to my denominational 'cessationist' background that nothing had happened.
Few cessationist denominations still exist, and some will put that down to "except the Lord had built the house, those that had done so had laboured in vain".
But could not the same be said re the even longer period after 'tongues' had ceased, up until the time that it re-emerged?
Some might say that it never ceased, but I can find no reference to pockets of continuation.
Nevertheless I have to face up to the fact that I may never be blessed (or burdened) with blind belief and am unable to believe stuff that I find to be intellectually implausible.
That puts me right out of kilter with many Christian Forum members and, since it may be me, rather than 'all those others' that is out of step, I’m tempted to ask myself whether I really ought to continue to involve.

You are not alone... I still enjoy your posts.

 

[The wind]

You have no way of knowing the intent of my heart. You made a bold claim about seeing visions being necessary for salvation. If it is necessary for salvation you have a duty to proclaim that Gospel and explain what that means.

John 14:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 6:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Galatians 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


As it is written, you have neither part nor lot in this matter.

 

[Waiting on him]

John 14:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 6:40 King James Version (KJV)
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Galatians 3:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


As it is written, you have neither part nor lot in this matter.

John 20:29-31 KJV
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. [30] And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: [31] But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

How do you reconcile this scripture with what your claiming?
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