My theory about the "Word" in John 1:1

[janc]

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[historyb]

The Word in John 1:1 has been seen as Christ himself. The Word was with God and the Word is God, an identification of the Trinity

 

[janc]

Your from Italy ?
Are you a Jesuit, or subject to Jesuits ? Or subject to Bishops or to Priests ?

that has nothing to do with my question

 

[janc]

The Word in John 1:1 has been seen as Christ himself. The Word was with God and the Word is God, an identification of the Trinity

So you're saying the word of God is a separate person? So God the Father has no mind/spirit?

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 1 confirms that the Son is eternal. John 1.14 confirms that the eternal Word is the only begotten Son of God.

 

[historyb]

So you're saying the word of God is a separate person? So God the Father has no mind/spirit?

There are three persons in the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son (who is the Word), and God the Holy Spirit. Yes the Word is a separate person yet the Same God.

Here is the Athanasian Creed about the Holy Trinity:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

 

[janc]

Hebrews 1 confirms that the Son is eternal.

You mean this passage?:

For to which of the angels did he ever say, "You are my son, today I have begotten you"? And again, "I will be his father, and he shall be my son"?

If so, I must disappoint you, this is about the incarnation.

John 1.14 confirms that the eternal Word is the only begotten Son of God.

I'm not denying that. I confirmed that in my post.

 

[janc]

There are three persons in the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son (who is the Word), and God the Holy Spirit. Yes the Word is a separate person yet the Same God.

Sorry but the bible says that there is only one God, not three.

 

[historyb]

Sorry but the bible says that there is only one God, not three.

Yes there is only one God in Three persons as the Creed explains and Christianity believes, anything else is not Christianity and quite heretical if not pagan.

 

[farouk]

Sorry but the bible says that there is only one God, not three.

God in Three Persons is shown in many New Testament passages: end of Matthew 28, John's Gospel, esp. ch.s 13 thru 17, Romans 8, John's First Epistle, etc.

 

[farouk]

You mean this passage?:

For to which of the angels did he ever say, "You are my son, today I have begotten you"? And again, "I will be his father, and he shall be my son"?

If so, I must disappoint you, this is about the incarnation.

I'm not denying that. I confirmed that in my post.

If you look at similar wording in Acts 13 and Psalm 2, the Resurrection is apparent.

 

[janc]

Yes there is only one God in Three persons as the Creed explains and Christianity believes, anything else is not Christianity and quite heretical if not pagan.

But Christianity has nothing to do with the Bible.

If the Word is really another separate person, why is it not called Son but "Word"? That the Word is the Spirit of God is confirmed in Psalm 33:6, because there the Word is identified as the Spirit: "By the Word the heavens were created, by the Spirit of his mouth, because he spoke and it was". The Word is the Spirit of God, it is his power and wisdom, it is his personality, his mind. Not an other person.

 

[Joseph77]

nvm

 

[janc]

If you look at similar wording in Acts 13 and Psalm 2, the Resurrection is apparent.

Yes, the resurrection is apparent.
I say that the "Son of God" did not exist before the incarnation, the "Son of God" existed before that as God, who then became a real human being and was therefore called the Son of God.

 

[farouk]

Yes, the resurrection is apparent.
I say that the "Son of God" did not exist before the incarnation, the "Son of God" existed before that as God, who then became a real human being and was therefore called the Son of God.

Hebrews 1 says: 'Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever'.

His glorious Sonship did not depend on the Incarnation; rather, the glory of the Incarnation lies in that the eternal God became Man.

 

[Giuliano]

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

I mostly agree. When we read Genesis 1, we see that the Word divided light from darkness. Half the darkness heard and obeyed the Word and became Light. The other half remained in darkness. So it goes. Jesus heard and obeyed every Word of God -- and manifested it in reality. Thus the Word became flesh. Look at what Jesus told Satan:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

It would very strange for Jesus to say that if he was claiming to be the Word. Jesus was also able to speak the Words of the Father.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

It would be strange too if Jesus were the Word to say he spoke words that were spirit.

 

[janc]

Hebrews 1 says: 'Thy Throne, O God, is for ever and ever'.

So what?
I don't deny he's God. I have confirmed in my post that he is the Incarnate God, but that he is not another deity and did not exist as the Son of God before his incarnation.

 

[Enoch111]

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God...

There's no need for any theory. John chapter 1 makes it perfectly clear that the "Word" is "the only begotten Son of God". He is the one who spoke and it was done.