NDEs and ADCs: Their Evidential Value for Christian Apologetics

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Berserk

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  • Let me begin with this disclaimer: I am an evangelical Christian for whom Christ's atoning death and resurrection are the anchor of my faith. But at their best, the verifications inherent in ADCs (=After-Death Contacts) and NDEs (near-death experiences) seem more evidentially probative even than the evidence for Jesus' resurrection and, in my experience of evangelistic witnessing, are far more effective than any Bible-based apologetics. To demonstrate why I will share some of the most mind-blowing evidential NDEs and ADCs I have encountered, including some of the most convincing which have not been published.

    But first, I will provide some biblical background for ADCs:
    (1) Apart from Jesus' resurrection appearances, the most obvious NT example of an ADC is the return of Moses and Elijah to be present with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:2-9 and parallels).

    (2) "After His resurrection, they [deceased saints] came out of the tombs and came into the holy city and appeared to many (Matthew 27:53)."
    Whether their bodies were actually resurrected or their spirits simply appeared to the living in Jerusalem, these paranormal appearances qualify as ADCs.

    (3) Hebrews 12:1: "Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely and run with perseverance the race that is set before us."
    In part this image of "the cloud of witnesses" refers back to the list of OT saints discussed in chap. 11. But in Hebrews, the word "witnesses" (Greek: martyres) always refers to eyewitnesses and the witnesses in 12:1 do not precede the living spiritual athletes, but rather surround them. So "the cloud of witnesses" are alive and are currently monitoring the progress of the spiritual athletes competing in the arena below. Hebrews 12:1 is thus an important prooftext for the affirmation in the Apostles' Creed, "I believe in the communion of saints." We don't need to embrace the Catholic practice of praying to deceased saints to recognize this point.

    (4) In the Catholic OT Judas Maccabaeus has a vision of 2 deceased saints, the high priest Onias III and the prophet Jeremiah, whose encouragement and prayer support spur them on to military victory in Israel's decisive battle with the Greeks (2 Maccabees 15:6-19). True, this book is absent from the Protestant canon. But this visionary appearance of Jeremiah inspires speculation that Jesus in fact represents Jeremiah's return from the grave (Matthew 16:14).

    (5) NDEs are experienced as a form of OBE. Paul considers his visit to Paradise a possible OBE (2 Corinthians 12:1-5) and Ezekiel describes his visions like ADCs:
    e. g.: "Then the Spirit lifted me up (Ezekiel 3:12)."

    My next planned posts will document some of the most evidentially impressive ADCs and NDEs. Please share any ADCs or NDEs that you or your acquaintances have experienced and what you think of them.
 

Hidden In Him

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  • Let me begin with this disclaimer: I am an evangelical Christian for whom Christ's atoning death and resurrection are the anchor of my faith. But at their best, the verifications inherent in ADCs (=After-Death Contacts) and NDEs (near-death experiences) seem more evidentially probative even than the evidence for Jesus' resurrection and, in my experience of evangelistic witnessing, are far more effective than any Bible-based apologetics. To demonstrate why I will share some of the most mind-blowing evidential NDEs and ADCs I have encountered, including some of the most convincing which have not been published.

    But first, I will provide some biblical background for ADCs:
    (1) Apart from Jesus' resurrection appearances, the most obvious NT example of an ADC is the return of Moses and Elijah to be present with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration (Mark 9:2-9 and parallels).

    (2) "After His resurrection, they [deceased saints] came out of the tombs and came into the holy city and appeared to many (Matthew 27:53)."
    Whether their bodies were actually resurrected or their spirits simply appeared to the living in Jerusalem, these paranormal appearances qualify as ADCs.

    (3) Hebrews 12:1: "Since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely and run with perseverance the race that is set before us."
    In part this image of "the cloud of witnesses" refers back to the list of OT saints discussed in chap. 11. But in Hebrews, the word "witnesses" (Greek: martyres) always refers to eyewitnesses and the witnesses in 12:1 do not precede the living spiritual athletes, but rather surround them. So "the cloud of witnesses" are alive and are currently monitoring the progress of the spiritual athletes competing in the arena below. Hebrews 12:1 is thus an important prooftext for the affirmation in the Apostles' Creed, "I believe in the communion of saints." We don't need to embrace the Catholic practice of praying to deceased saints to recognize this point.

    (4) In the Catholic OT Judas Maccabaeus has a vision of 2 deceased saints, the high priest Onias III and the prophet Jeremiah, whose encouragement and prayer support spur them on to military victory in Israel's decisive battle with the Greeks (2 Maccabees 15:6-19). True, this book is absent from the Protestant canon. But this visionary appearance of Jeremiah inspires speculation that Jesus in fact represents Jeremiah's return from the grave (Matthew 16:14).

    (5) NDEs are experienced as a form of OBE. Paul considers his visit to Paradise a possible OBE (2 Corinthians 12:1-5) and Ezekiel describes his visions like ADCs:
    e. g.: "Then the Spirit lifted me up (Ezekiel 3:12)."

    My next planned posts will document some of the most evidentially impressive ADCs and NDEs. Please share any ADCs or NDEs that you or your acquaintances have experienced and what you think of them.


Great to see you posting on the forums. Your stuff is always substantive. Thankful for #4. I wasn't aware that Judas Maccabees received a prophetic visitation in a dream prior to the victory.

I posted a few weeks ago about my first girlfriend having an NDE. I fully believed her, and in some ways it may have had an effect on me getting saved five years later:
Have you ever had a "near-death" or other "supernatural" experience?

P.S. About #3, whenever you have posted your other material let me know. Not sure I fully follow your contention regarding the cloud of witnesses.
 

Berserk

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(1a) NDE researchers like Dr. Raymond Moody are now writing books about shared NDEs, which are generally far more evidential than most conventional NDEs because the doctors, nurses, and family members witnessing the apparent deaths actually experience key elements of the NDEs, including the OBE and the past life review! (a) Watch this interview with Dr. Moody for a summary of this type of afterlife evidence:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...5FEC&FORM=VIRE

Elsewhere Dr. Moody describes his own shared NDE at his mother's deathbed. The shared nature of these NDEs is somewhat reminiscent of Jesus' resurrection appearances.

(1b) For a gripping personal account of a shared NDE, watch Dr. Scott Taylor's testimony:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...E67B&FORM=VIRE

Such shared NDEs refute the claim of skeptics that NDEs are delusions caused by oxygen deprivation in a dying brain.
 
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Berserk

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The book, "Lighted Passage," was brought to the attention of an agnostic friend of mine by a colleague who worked with him at HUD and was a relative of the author, Dr. Howell Vincent. Dr. Vincent, a Presbyterian minister, wrote this book, about his daughter Rea and her death in a car accident on her honeymoon. His description of a shared ADC involving his late first wife Nellie and other family members is quoted from p. 25:

(2) "On at least 2 occasions this radiant mother had come to Rea in visible tangible form and talked with her...I was privileged to be present at one of these heavenly visits by Mother Nellie. Together with Rea I talked with Nellie, fully recognizing her face and form and voice. I saw her place her hand on Rea's head in blessing, and I saw her give Rea a flower, a calendula, which we pressed and kept. At that time 3 other members of our family were present, including Rea's second mother, Agnes, and they all saw Nellie and talked with her, as Rea and I did. We were all wide awake and walked around the room with Nellie."

From an evidential perspective this testimony rivals the Gospel resurrection stories and, for that very reason, lends them added credibility. Rev. Vincent's testimony certainly opened my agnostic top HUD executive friend's heart to the Gospel and the possibility that Jesus really did rise from the dead. As an Evangelical, it intrigues me that Evangelicals here wouldn't be interested in shared NDEs in which doctors, nurses, family, and friends are not only transported from their own bodies to follow the dying patient into the Light, but often even share their past life review conducted by angels! I attribute this apathy to a combination of disinterest in effective evangelism and an utter lack of intellectual curiosity, especially when it comes to thinking outside the box.
 

Berserk

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  1. (3a) Leonard was a wealthy elderly businessman who was a beloved member of a church I pastored in western New York. On a few occasions I had dinner with him and his wife Helen. He was very anxious that I visit his brother, his wife, and his cousin when they had health issues. But one day it dawned on me that he seemed to have little or no grief about the premature deaths of his son Jeff, Jeff's wife Karen, and their 2 children in a small plane crash. One day Leonard asked me to visit him to discuss a possible visit to his dying cousin who lived across the road who had refused any visitation. Leonard wasn't home, but I found myself remarking to Helen at how easily Leonard seemed to adjust to the tragic deaths of his young son's family. Helen replied cryptically, "Oh, that's because Jeff visited him, but Leonard doesn't like to talk about that!" Curious, I took the risk to make the same observation to Leonard the next time I saw him. His responded with the most dramatically supernatural encounter I've ever encountered. Leonard told me that after the funeral he was about to drive Jeff's pickup truck to town on an errand. As he approached the end of his driveway, he noticed a figure looming from the ditch by the highway. It was his late son Jeff! Jeff approached the pickup, saying, "Hi Dad, do you mind if I drive my pickup for old time's sake?" A stunned Leonard slid over and Jeff got in and drove his pickup north towards Rochester, NY on Rte. 37. Jeff assured his Dad that he and his family were together and OK and then revealed the details of his financial investments to help Leonard settle his estate. After driving a few miles, Jeff abruptly turned right on a less traveled highway and drove a couple of miles until they approached a thicket of woods. Jeff then solemnly remarked: "I'm sorry, Dad, but I'm not permitted to drive any further." Jeff then got out of the pickup, walked towards the woods, and dematerialized! A stunned Leonard then drove the pickup home. Leonard told me that Jeff's paranormal visit did little to ease his grief because he was in shock and the whole adventure seemed too surreal to be real. But everything changed the next morning. Leonard awakened with a heavy heart and went for a walk in the woods behind his house to ease his grief. He was soon overcome by a weeping spell and sat down on a log. Then he heard a branch crack and saw a young woman approaching. It was Jeff's late wife Karen! She chided him, "Dad, didn't we tell you that we are all together and OK? So what are you doing grieving like this? You get back in the house and comfort Mom (Helen)!" It was Karen's comforting visit that dispatched most of Leonard's grief. After sharing this amazing account, Leonard gazed at my incredulous expression with great concern and I felt ashamed because he hadn't wanted to share this experience and I had goaded him into sharing it. I apologized, adding that I was grateful that he shared his ADC and I just needed time to process what I'd heard. I asked him if he had shared this experience with his 2 daughters and he said No. He didn't want his family to think he was crazy. I left to pastor another church a year later and eventually heard that Leonard had passed away, but that his daughter had shared his ADC at his funeral service. Apparently, my sympathetic listening had encouraged him to share his ADC with his daughters. (3b) You will remember the bald actor, Telly Savalas, who starred in the Kojak TV series. Telly shares an ADC analogous to Leonard's in an interview: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D861&FORM=VIRE I suspect that the discarnate driver is trapped in Hades.
 
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Berserk

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(4) My next NDE is incredibly unique but highly evidential for an afterlife. Rev. Albert Baldeo was one of the most respected ministers in Kelowna, BC in Canada. He was respected enough to be given a weekly column in the city paper. One of his articles described his Dad's shared NDE and I confirmed the ensuing description of it by direct contact with Albert: Albert was present at his Dad's death vigil in a nursing home. At 11:45 AM, his Dad sat up, looked ahead at an apparition, and exclaimed, "Hurry up, brother, hurry up!" Within a few seconds he passed away. Only later did Albert discover that his Dad's brother was simultaneously dying in another nursing home 10 miles away. That death vigil was also witnessed by family members. As death drew near, that brother suddenly sat up, gazed in the distance, and exclaimed, "Wait for me, brother, wait for me!" Seconds later, he died, and the family members present noted the time--11:45 AM! Two brothers were able to react to each other 10 physical miles apart and then their spirits were able to enter eternity simultaneously. Mind-blowing unique evidence for the reality of the soul!
 
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Berserk

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(5) THE GEOGRAPHY OF PARADISE

At age 5 Margaret Sauro was misdiagnosed with scarlet fever and was on the verge of death as a result of a ruptured appendix. She suddenly found herself walking hand in hand down a path with a beautiful young woman in a Roman toga. The path was lined with massive beautiful flowers "way over our heads...close together the way a colonial bouquet would be." Margaret felt an overwhelming peace and the floral fragrance "seemed to permeate my whole body." Near the path's end, she heard faint voices, saying, "But why is she bringing her here?" "I don't know. She knows better." Margaret was then enveloped in fog and returned to her hospital bed. The angelic young woman looked down, saying, "I'm sorry Margaret, but you have to go back now. It's not you time."

Decades later in her 60s, Margaret decided to paint the beautiful lady and the flowers and scenery along the path. The next day she went to see her internist about her broken rib. She told her internist about the painting and he asked if she could create a reproduction for him to frame and hang among 10 other pictures in his office. Several weeks later Maria Olivia, another patient, saw the painting among the 10 others and stood transfixed. When the internist asked her what was going on, she replied: "I walked along that path when I was 5 years old and almost died!" 2 independent descriptions of a section of Paradise devoted to 5-year-olds? If so, this is a mind-blowing confirmation of Paradise geography. (report condensed from Mally Cox-Chapman, "The Case for Heaven")
 
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K9Buck

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  1. (3a) Leonard was a wealthy elderly businessman who was a beloved member of a church I pastored in western New York. On a few occasions I had dinner with him and his wife Helen. He was very anxious that I visit his brother, his wife, and his cousin when they had health issues. But one day it dawned on me that he seemed to have little or no grief about the premature deaths of his son Jeff, Jeff's wife Karen, and their 2 children in a small plane crash. One day Leonard asked me to visit him to discuss a possible visit to his dying cousin who lived across the road who had refused any visitation. Leonard wasn't home, but I found myself remarking to Helen at how easily Leonard seemed to adjust to the tragic deaths of his young son's family. Helen replied cryptically, "Oh, that's because Jeff visited him, but Leonard doesn't like to talk about that!" Curious, I took the risk to make the same observation to Leonard the next time I saw him. His responded with the most dramatically supernatural encounter I've ever encountered. Leonard told me that after the funeral he was about to drive Jeff's pickup truck to town on an errand. As he approached the end of his driveway, he noticed a figure looming from the ditch by the highway. It was his late son Jeff! Jeff approached the pickup, saying, "Hi Dad, do you mind if I drive my pickup for old time's sake?" A stunned Leonard slid over and Jeff got in and drove his pickup north towards Rochester, NY on Rte. 37. Jeff assured his Dad that he and his family were together and OK and then revealed the details of his financial investments to help Leonard settle his estate. After driving a few miles, Jeff abruptly turned right on a less traveled highway and drove a couple of miles until they approached a thicket of woods. Jeff then solemnly remarked: "I'm sorry, Dad, but I'm not permitted to drive any further." Jeff then got out of the pickup, walked towards the woods, and dematerialized! A stunned Leonard then drove the pickup home. Leonard told me that Jeff's paranormal visit did little to ease his grief because he was in shock and the whole adventure seemed too surreal to be real. But everything changed the next morning. Leonard awakened with a heavy heart and went for a walk in the woods behind his house to ease his grief. He was soon overcome by a weeping spell and sat down on a log. Then he heard a branch crack and saw a young woman approaching. It was Jeff's late wife Karen! She chided him, "Dad, didn't we tell you that we are all together and OK? So what are you doing grieving like this? You get back in the house and comfort Mom (Helen)!" It was Karen's comforting visit that dispatched most of Leonard's grief. After sharing this amazing account, Leonard gazed at my incredulous expression with great concern and I felt ashamed because he hadn't wanted to share this experience and I had goaded him into sharing it. I apologized, adding that I was grateful that he shared his ADC and I just needed time to process what I'd heard. I asked him if he had shared this experience with his 2 daughters and he said No. He didn't want his family to think he was crazy. I left to pastor another church a year later and eventually heard that Leonard had passed away, but that his daughter had shared his ADC at his funeral service. Apparently, my sympathetic listening had encouraged him to share his ADC with his daughters. (3b) You will remember the bald actor, Telly Savalas, who starred in the Kojak TV series. Telly shares an ADC analogous to Leonard's in an interview: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D861&FORM=VIRE I suspect that the discarnate driver is trapped in Hades.


Who is the author of this?
 

Berserk

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(6) When I was a Theology professor at a Catholic university, I used to play Bridge with professors from the School of Education. During one game, I received a "word of knowledge" about an absent Education Professor, Ellie. Ellie was grieving the recent loss of her husband Joe, another Education professor. I suddenly found myself announcing to the group: "Ellie has just been contacted by Joe; and she is wondering whether the vision is real. Tell her I can assure her that is!"

The other professors were stunned by my announcement. Paul, the Dean of the School of Education, was one of them. Curious, he called Ellie to report what I had declared. Ellie was shocked but grateful. She replied that she had experienced a waking apparition of Joe during which she and Joe were able to express their loving good-bye to each other and tenderly reminisce about the good times in their marriage. A skeptical Ellie was wondering if her vision could be real; so my clairvoyant reassurance was very meaningful to her.

Impressed by this confirmation, Paul later contacted me to ask what I thought of playing with a Ouija board. I warned him that demonic entities sometimes use the open surrender required for the board to work to manifest in a terrifying way. Paul grew pale because the Education department had just had a group party during which they played with a Ouija board....until they began to receive messages from Hell and from demons. So my warning proved timely.
 

Berserk

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(7) Many agnostics and atheists are gloriously saved through their NDEs. The most dramatic online example of such a conversion is atheist professor Howard Storm's NDE in which he was being taken to Hell when Jesus intervened and his life was transformed. His Youtube testimony posted below is one of the most powerful testimonies on the internet:

youtube howard storm - Bing video

In his book "My Descent into Death" he details his lengthy Q and A session with Jesus and then describes several other miracles he experienced after his NDE. He eventually becomes a missionary to poor children in Central America. I have communicated with him personally.
 

historyb

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  • My next planned posts will document some of the most evidentially impressive ADCs and NDEs. Please share any ADCs or NDEs that you or your acquaintances have experienced and what you think of them.

I had an NDE. When I was much younger I was having a hard time breathing in bed at night and couldn't make any noise and then darkness. The next thing I knew I was rising and I knew that if I went past the ceiling I would not be going to Heaven and then I zoomed back in my body still lying there on the bed. It literally scared the hell out of me and heaven into me.
 
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Berserk

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THE NATURE OF LIFE ON "THE NEW EARTH"

I'm not ordinarily interested in millenarian speculation (pre-, post-, or amillennialism), but atheist Howard Storm's revelation about life in the millennium really got my attention for various reasons:
(1) Apparently unknown to him, his NDE vision of the millennium is independently confirm by other sources, like Robert Monroe's OBE vision.
(2) In his mesmerizing book "My Descent into Death, Howard excludes what Jesus showed him about the future earth because, as he told me, he thought it would be too controversial.
(3) Intuitively, his NDE vision of the future earth makes sense of what it means for the kingdom of God to come in power.

Here then is Howard Storm coming clean about that aspect of his glorious NDE, a video on which I just posted:

david sunfellow youtube - Bing video
 
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marks

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THE NATURE OF LIFE ON "THE NEW EARTH"

I'm not ordinarily interested in millenarian speculation (pre-, post-, or amillennialism), but atheist Howard Storm's revelation about life in the millennium really got my attention for various reasons:
(1) Apparently unknown to him, his NDE vision of the millennium is independently confirm by other sources, like Robert Monroe's OBE vision.
(2) In his mesmerizing book "My Descent into Death, Howard excludes what Jesus showed him about the future earth because, as he told me, he thought it would be too controversial.
(3) Intuitively, his NDE vision of the future earth makes sense of what it means for the kingdom of God to come in power.

Here then is Howard Storm coming clean about that aspect of his glorious NDE, a video on which I just posted:

david sunfellow youtube - Bing video
His idea of the world to come was what I thought this world was like before I became a Christian. I had formed my ideas from various "new age" sources.

His statement specifically that humans would control the weather, that really caught my eye! There was a well known demonically channeled book that gave information on this.

Crops will grow by people meditating . . . again, this is the new age practice, with power resident in humanity.

Zechariah 14
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

To me this sounds like the decretive will of God, not really subject to man.

It seems to me that every NDE I've heard or read, quite a few, actually, it's been a hobby of mine*, you could say, but I've never heard any with any detail of the afterlife that didn't disagree in its details with the details of Scripture.

I don't know how to explain this, but it's certainly an observation I've made over the years.

Much love!

* for example, I virtually never watch videos posted on a forum. I just don't. I'm here to read the writer's words. This video I watched, because I remain interested.
 

Truman

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In early 1988, I was an out-of-control addict. I also had a death wish. After one time that I O.D.ed, I moved back to Ontario. About a year later, I started remembering something for the first time.
I was lying face-down on the ground in a dark place. An invisible force lifted up my head. Through my long, stringy hair I saw a bright light shining in the darkness. It spoke to me and said, "Choose life or choose death." I cried out, " I wanna live," and I still remember the feeling of life flowing through my body once again.
The next thing I knew I was in dark water and I was swimming upwards for my life as I was holding my breath. I looked up and saw a dot of light. I swam and swam and the light was getting bigger. I got closer and realized that I was in a well. I felt like I was going to burst and just before I got to the surface I saw that there were objects swirling around on the surface. As I was reaching out I saw a guitar and I grabbed it. It ended there.
I've had other near-death experiences that I later recalled but we'll leave those for another time. Shalom
 

Berserk

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(8) I had just performed a wedding in Buffalo, NY and was now attending the reception at a country club. I was sitting next to a guest, Phyllis, who was a doctor with a PhD in medical research. She was an attractive but "icy" blond who was obviously very bright. Phyllis shared these 2 NDEs with me.
(a) She had her first NDE as a result of a serious car accident after which she was fighting for her life. She found herself floating up to what she described as a "mall that wasn't really a mall; it was a mall of white light." As she wandered down the hallway, she arrived at an open court area with tables and chairs and heard lovely music playing in the background. Seated at one of the tables was her recently deceased mother. Stunned, Phyllis sat down, only to be scolded by her irate mother, who chided her thus:

For some reason, you haven't let yourself grieve my loss and your refusal to do so is holding black my progress over here!" Phyllis felt terribly trapped and humiliated. Her way of handling grief and other life tragedies was to detach from her emotions, so she could get on with her life, unobstructed by pain. After further conversation she returned to her body and eventually regained normal consciousness.

Some time later, Phyllis became afflicted with some life-threatening "female disease" that required hospitalization (breast or cervical cancer?) and this ailment triggered her 2nd NDE, which once again brought up "a mall that wasn't really a mall; it was a mall of white light." Once again, she arrived at the open court area. She shuddered to see her late Mom seated at a table with heavenly music playing in the background. When Phyllis sat down, her mother again scolded her, "Why haven't you respected me request to grieve my loss? I told you that your failure to do so is holding back my progress over here!" Humiliated again, Phyllis just sat there and sulked, finally saying, "Well, I guess I'll try to get back to my body now." Her Mom retorted, "No, you're not ready to return to your body! You need to go with these 2 gentlemen!" 2 male beings in white robes suddenly appeared and escorted her to "an elevator that wasn't really an elevator; it was an elevator of white light." They finally arrived at what seemed to be some sort of spirit operating room and a procedure was performed on her spirit body that she didn't understand. Then she was returned to her body in the earth hospital, completely healed!

I never saw Phyllis again and have often wondered if she ever allowed herself to grieve her Mom's loss. Obviously there were serious issues between mother and daughter in this life. These 2 points strike me about her NDEs: (1) They illustrate how important forgiveness and reconciliation can be for afterlife progress. 92) They illustrate the biblical implication that the righteous dead are allowed at times to monitor our progress from beyond the grave. The truth is generally ignored by most Christians, but has profound implications about ongoing relationships between the living and the dead in the body of Christ.
 
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