New Testament Church vs Modern Church

[Wynona]

My husband I love our church. But we see the good and the bad.

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

But the New Testament Church had some differences.

-More fellowship and doing life together

-Outreach, street evangelism

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

What are your thoughts on this?

@Ferris Bueller @Bible Highlighter @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @marks @devin553344 I'm curious as to what you all think as well.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

My husband I love our church. But we see the good and the bad.

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

But the New Testament Church had some differences.

-More fellowship and doing life together

-Outreach, street evangelism

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

What are your thoughts on this?

@Ferris Bueller @Bible Highlighter @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @marks @devin553344 I'm curious as to what you all think as well.

You are right lil sis.
I even have been to brush arbor and tent services.

The churches here really belong to the world now. Ppl attend for social standing instead of worshipping God.

The youths music is flashing lights LOUD LOUD music. Now I realize it takes more to reach the young than yesterday...... but should it ? Arent we compromising?

The first century church was persecuted unto death, had to meet anywhere it was safe even the catacombs of Rome.

It would give so much money to the needs of those we are to show Gods love to IF.....we didnt have to buy the pastor a yr 202_ car every year. If we didnt have to extend the building project to seat 5ooo more Fortune 500 ppl.

I dont mean to sound ugly but if the salt has lost its savour it is good only to cast in the streets.

God is more than man, buildings, fancy dress, up-dated cars, expensive vacations. The church has lost its vision.

Most have LOST GOD !

 

[Pearl]

My husband I love our church. But we see the good and the bad.

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

But the New Testament Church had some differences.

-More fellowship and doing life together

-Outreach, street evangelism

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

What are your thoughts on this?

@Ferris Bueller @Bible Highlighter @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @marks @devin553344 I'm curious as to what you all think as well.

The church I belonged to had Acts as it's model and it was brilliant; we weren't just a group of strangers we were a community although we lived in our own homes. I was a wonderful time. But over time, like most things, it changed and became very samey. It started with a vision but then that vision was lost.

 

[dev553344]

I was part of a church that required the members to give everything to the church. But said that because of the lack of righteousness didn't require the members to do so. Or something like that. But I somehow am doubtful that was what Jesus required. I remember him saying to sell all and give to the poor, not necessarily the church. Hmmm.

 

[Enoch111]

What are your thoughts on this?

Looks like you have covered the main points. Acts chapters 2 and 6 give us an excellent insight into the priorities of the New Testament church. 1 Corinthians 11-14 also adds to that.

The most puzzling thing is that all evangelical and fundamental church leaders have the Bible in their hands. So how do they fail so miserably in implementing the NT pattern? Once again it shows that (a) the flesh and (b) Satan work very hard to make sure that something else is introduced into the churches.

So perhaps you can speak to your church leaders and let them know that they have deviated from the NT pattern and it is time to get back. A close look at Revelation 1-3 should be warranted also. Christ wants churches and Christians within those churches to repent. Each local church is directly accountable to Him.

 

[Wynona]

I was part of a church that required the members to give everything to the church. But said that because of the lack of righteousness didn't require the members to do so. Or something like that. But I somehow am doubtful that was what Jesus required. I remember him saying to sell all and give to the poor, not necessarily the church. Hmmm.

Acts 2:45

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.


Could you easily get what you needed from that church? If so, than that's one thing. That's what the early church did. But if you had to give everything but couldn't get financial help still, that sounds like being taken advantage of.

 

[Wynona]

Looks like you have covered the main points. Acts chapters 2 and 6 give us an excellent insight into the priorities of the New Testament church. 1 Corinthians 11-14 also adds to that.

The most puzzling thing is that all evangelical and fundamental church leaders have the Bible in their hands. So how do they fail so miserably in implementing the NT pattern? Once again it shows that (a) the flesh and (b) Satan work very hard to make sure that something else is introduced into the churches.

So perhaps you can speak to your church leaders and let them know that they have deviated from the NT pattern and it is time to get back. A close look at Revelation 1-3 should be warranted also. Christ wants churches and Christians within those churches to repent. Each local church is directly accountable to Him.

I'll be honest, when I seriously consider speaking to them, I get a sinking feeling. I don't know that I'd get a positive response.

I love our pastoring couple but they went into partial debt to cover $15,000 worth of carpet and chairs. We have a small membership so we couldn't afford it.

I can tell that they are stressed with the business side of things. Yes, it's because they were never meant to do most of it, but saying that seems like it would be perceived as an attack.

But I might mention that I feel overcommitted lately and that I want to focus more on fellowship.

I think they'd be open to more fellowship ideas. We have invited them over to our home and we used to eat lunch together. I miss that.

As for returning to the New Testament model, I think it'd be tough. I'd essentially be asking the Pastor to turn in his license and start a house church. But there may be a more opportune time for that in the near future.

I could use prayer. There are many positive elements to the church. The current pastor has only been at the church a year and a half. We are trying to be patient and watch the direction the church is heading in.

 

[dev553344]

Acts 2:45

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.


Could you easily get what you needed from that church? If so, than that's one thing. That's what the early church did. But if you had to give everything but couldn't get financial help still, that sounds like being taken advantage of.

Nope. I actually was given a record and I had paid about $25,000 in tithes over the years to that church I discussed. When my surgery went bad and my mental health became crippling I went to them for help first. I was given one or two food bags and then was rejected further help for me and my family. It was a humiliating experience and now I'm shy of that particular church. I no longer think they are sincere. And the sort of preach a 10 commandments law instead of the full royal law so now I'm no longer fooled.

 

[Wynona]

Nope. I actually was given a record and I had paid about $25,000 in tithes over the years to that church I discussed. When my surgery went bad and my mental health became crippling I went to them for help first. I was given one or two food bags and then was rejected further help for me and my family. It was a humiliating experience and now I'm shy of that particular church. I no longer think they are sincere. And the sort of preach a 10 commandments law instead of the full royal law so now I'm no longer fooled.

I shouldn't be surprised but if I think about this too much, I think Id be really upset. What can I say? I really am sorry this happened to you. I know words are meaningless.

If you needed help, Id help as much as I could. I mean it. I know I got help when I needed it.

 

[dev553344]

I shouldn't be surprised but if I think about this too much, I think Id be really upset. What can I say? I really am sorry this happened to you. I know words are meaningless.

If you needed help, Id help as much as I could. I mean it. I know I got help when I needed it.

Thanks Wynona!

Well that episode made me learn an important lesson. And I think that is that churches really can't be trusted to care for the poor and disabled. The governments are set up for that, and not because the people want them to do it. They sort of force the people to pay them taxes, some of which goes to help the poor and disabled. Hmmm.

 

[Wynona]

Thanks Wynona!

Well that episode made me learn an important lesson. And I think that is that churches really can't be trusted to care for the poor and disabled. The governments are set up for that, and not because the people want them to do it. They sort of force the people to pay them taxes, some of which goes to help the poor and disabled. Hmmm.

What a sad indictment on churches today. The government shouldn't be more reliable than us!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My husband I love our church. But we see the good and the bad.

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

But the New Testament Church had some differences.

-More fellowship and doing life together

-Outreach, street evangelism

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

What are your thoughts on this?

@Ferris Bueller @Bible Highlighter @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d @marks @devin553344 I'm curious as to what you all think as well.

A Christian I talk with at CF on occasion has led me to learn about how the modern church today is not biblical.

Here are two of his PDF tracts:

The Pastor King
https://www.christianforums.com/dat...2/268026_97ffd4c85f606529ba0f24df83ada97b.pdf

God’s Order in the Body of Christ
https://www.christianforums.com/dat...2/268012_aec76b972cb5d0832e4a7827f8c61cde.pdf

Here are some videos he sent me (from his friend), as well.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Dz7B75Z58

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFnDIi2aGm0

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxy7Bp-RaCo

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZQ0D7OtWM

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhO8fh-7oc

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0OgSZLSMj8

 

[Wynona]

A Christian I talk with at CF on occasion has led me to learn about how the modern church today is not biblical.

Here are two of his PDF tracts:

The Pastor King

https://www.christianforums.com/data/attachment-files/2017/12/268026_97ffd4c85f606529ba0f24df83ada97b.pdf

God’s Order in the Body of Christ
https://www.christianforums.com/data/attachment-files/2017/12/268012_aec76b972cb5d0832e4a7827f8c61cde.pdf

Here are some videos he sent me (from his friend), as well.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Dz7B75Z58

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFnDIi2aGm0

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxy7Bp-RaCo

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZQ0D7OtWM

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBhO8fh-7oc

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0OgSZLSMj8

I read the tracts, looked up some of the Scriptures referenced, and watched the videos.

It's given me quite a lot of things to think about.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The church has a business side, a huge building to pay for, and prioritizes that and pulpit preaching. Tithes and offering go to that.

I know there are things you gotta do that you just gotta do. But I'm all for keeping the ministry and operating expenses as slim as possible. It's no different than how one would run a household. There's more peace and enjoyment when you're not over extending yourself financially. It's no different in the church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

-More fellowship and doing life together

Fellowship to me is sharing about our lives in Christ, our personal struggles, and victories in open meetings. That's where our personal gifts get aroused and we minister to each other in simple but profound ways. As far as doing things together, I'm big on the occasional potluck dinner. As long as it stays very Christ centered and celebratory.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

-Outreach, street evangelism

I like to see personal evangelism emphasized over church outreach. It seems churches grow, and the message spread more effectively when members of a congregation are busy on a personal level with their neighbors and co-workers witnessing the truth to them (in whatever way they are equipped to do that). I don't think I've ever seen a church wide evangelistic event have much success. The only thing it did was make the members of the church feel good about doing something. But I've heard lots of stories of individual believers leading people to an awareness of Christ and the gospel and getting them to come to church. Lot's of stories. Wonderful, edifying stories that encourage the rest of us to do personal outreach. IMO, evangelism should be a task each of us takes with us to the corners of the world we are engaged in, not the focal point of a church.

This may sound weird at first, but churches are not necessarily ministries. Churches are for growing Christians up into the faith. It's the family and house where spiritual children are raised. Ministries are for the work of purposely reaching out to the world according to whatever gift it revolves around - helps, evangelism, etc. Churches get in trouble when they devote themselves entirely to being a ministry rather than a household of growing, maturing believers.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

-Tithes went to those in need, not the church building

Yeah, the church itself always seems to get the lions share of the tithes and offerings, lol.

Again, I think this area of Christian service, like evangelism, is more effective on a personal level. Each of us should spend our money in our own outreaches with friends and neighbors and co-workers...and strangers. One of the most satisfying, and effective things I've ever done with my money was pay for someone else's groceries ahead of me in line at the grocery store. Not willy-nilly, but in response to a legitimate need. One woman didn't have her card with her. One was a young man (probably a college student) trying to stretch his dollar and putting some things of the few things he brought to the register back because he didn't have enough money. I think the church needs to teach it's people to be generous in those kinds of ways. And the church needs to keep it's operating budget to a minimum so it's congregants can have the money to do those kinds of things! I think that's a far more effective use of money for the kingdom than maintaining a huge church and it's excessive operating expenses.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

-Not just the Pastor spoke during gatherings

Yes!

I carry this weird burden for pastors. I feel the burden they carry for coming up with sermon material every week, or twice a week. What I've noticed is their gifts get stirred up when they engage the congregation on a personal but controlled way in open discussion. I've been in two meetings where I could tell the pastor speaking knew this and was trying to get that to happen in the meeting. The problem is churches aren't set up to do 'church' that way. And so it was a struggle for them. I'm a big advocate for 1 Corinthians 14:26-33. The church should operate in a more open, but controlled, fashion. It works. There is a right and wrong way to do it, though. Lot's to say about that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The church I belonged to had Acts as it's model and it was brilliant

Lot's of people cite Acts for the church model. And that's good. But I think you have to include 1 Corinthians 14:26-33, too. That's where the real spiritual life of the church comes from, IMO.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But over time, like most things, it changed and became very samey. It started with a vision but then that vision was lost.

That seems to happen to ALL churches. I've thought about it a lot and why that happens. It centers around unfulfilled hopes, dreams, and expectations. It's fun while you're having faith and working towards a goal, and even having success along the way. But then disappointment sets in and faith withers and off people go to find the next spiritual thrill ride. It's a legitimate reason why people wither away. We need to focus on keeping the dream alive and leaning how to actually realize what we're so hopeful for in church.

But even with all that said, because we are growing, maturing spiritual organisms, there is a time to move on and do different things and be in different settings.