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I had a look at your wisdom site and found that you showed great wisdom when you corrected the year in which Shem was born which I had pointed out to you yet you then showed a greater lack of wisdom by ignoring the year in which Abraham was born as suggested in the Book of Genesis because of Stephen's comment at his trail before he was stoned to death by the addition of 60 years to the age of Terah as to when Abraham was born because of Stephen statement that Abraham left Haran after his Father had died. Is it not a Jewish custom to refer to previous descendant generational fathers as also the father of later descendant generations?
It seems to me that you have miss labelled your new site as a "Wisdom of God" website when you actually lack any wisdom at all when you miss calculate the years in which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were born. Abraham was born in the year 1949 YB, Isaac was born in the year 2049 YB, and Jacob was born in the years 3009 YB.
But I arrived at those years when Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were born by having the wisdom to believe what the scriptures tell us without coming to fictional conclusions through poor interpretations of the scriptures.
Shalom
PS: - The Book of Jasher suggests that Abraham was around 50 years of age when he left Ur with his father Terah. Noah, died when Abraham was around 59 years of age while he was still living in Haran and he left Haran some 17 years later, which is in agreement with what Stephen had said at his trial, that Abraham had left after His descendant Father, Noah had died. In fact the Book of Jasher infers that Noah was more of a father to Abraham than was his own father Terah. Abraham and Shem taught Abraham about all of the things of God before he left Ur..
It seems to me that you have miss labelled your new site as a "Wisdom of God" website when you actually lack any wisdom at all when you miss calculate the years in which Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were born. Abraham was born in the year 1949 YB, Isaac was born in the year 2049 YB, and Jacob was born in the years 3009 YB.
But I arrived at those years when Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were born by having the wisdom to believe what the scriptures tell us without coming to fictional conclusions through poor interpretations of the scriptures.
Shalom
PS: - The Book of Jasher suggests that Abraham was around 50 years of age when he left Ur with his father Terah. Noah, died when Abraham was around 59 years of age while he was still living in Haran and he left Haran some 17 years later, which is in agreement with what Stephen had said at his trial, that Abraham had left after His descendant Father, Noah had died. In fact the Book of Jasher infers that Noah was more of a father to Abraham than was his own father Terah. Abraham and Shem taught Abraham about all of the things of God before he left Ur..
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Abraham left Haran when Terah his father died, not when Noah died,
Terah took Abram his son and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram’s wife, and they went forth together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan, but when they came to Haran, they settled there. The days of Terah were 205 years, and Terah died in Haran. (Genesis 11:31-32)
So Abram went, as Yehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. (Genesis 12:4)
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, and said to him, ‘Go out from your land and from your kindred and go into the land that I will show you.’ Then he went out from the land of the Chaldeans and lived in Haran. And after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living. Yet he gave him no inheritance in it, not even a foot’s length, but promised to give it to him as a possession and to his seed after him, though he had no child. (Acts 7:2-5)
Now Yehovah said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” So Abram went, as Yehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people that they had acquired in Haran, and they set out to go to the land of Canaan. When they came to the land of Canaan, Abram passed through the land to the place at Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. (Genesis 12:1-6)
So my friend, what you are claiming is that the genesis account has the story wrong.
You are claiming that the account of Abraham in Acts as told by Stephen is right and that Genesis is wrong.
I prefer to believe that both are right and it is our understanding of what we are being told in both books that is actually in error.
My understanding of Genesis 22:20-24 fits the story line of when Terah actually died, around 1 year before Sarah's death.
The Book of Jasher 24:27 tells us that Nahor, Abraham's brother, died in the 40th year of Isaac's life.
The book of Jasher 22:31-34 also tells us that Terah died in the 35th years of Isaac's life, which is contrary to what you are claiming.
The Book Of Jasher 31And Terah, father of Nahor and Abraham, went and took another wife in his old age, and her name was Pelilah, and she conceived and bare him a son and he called his name Zoba. 32And Terah lived twenty-five years after he begat Zoba. 33And Terah died in that year, that is in the thirty-fifth year of the birth of Isaac son of Abraham. 34And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years, and he was buried in Haran.
The evidence from the oral tradition confirms that Terah was still alive when Abraham left Haran to go down towards the Land of Canaan. If fact he was 145 years of age at that time.
Nahor, sends word to his brother a year or two before he dies that Terah, their father had just died. When the servants arrive at Abraham's tent, he learn a little of the family story which was enough to know that a wife could be got for Isaac from his brother's descendants.
Shalom
The Book of Jasher is not in the canon of scripture. And just as the Book of Jubilees contains serious errors contrary to the Tanakh and New Testament, I suspect the same for the Book of Jasher, although I have not read it in detail to confirm this as I have the Book of Jubilees. As such, Abram left Haran when he was 75, which was when Terah died at age 205, which is a chronology indicated in both Genesis and also the New Testament, for after Terah and Abram came into Haran, then Terah died in Haran, then Abram left Haran. As such, this implies Terah was 130 when Abram was born. The above passage in the book of Jasher would imply Terah was 70 years old when Abram was born, but that is simply a misinterpretation of the passage that lists the sons of Terah beginning at age 70, because Nahor was the firstborn, not Abram, in accordance to the chronology of Abram leaving Haran at age 75 when Terah died there at age 205. Let me requote why I believe what I believe,
Terah took Abram his son and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram’s wife, and they went forth together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan, but when they came to Haran, they settled there. The days of Terah were 205 years, and Terah died in Haran. (Genesis 11:31-32)
So Abram went, as Yehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. (Genesis 12:4)
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, and said to him, ‘Go out from your land and from your kindred and go into the land that I will show you.’ Then he went out from the land of the Chaldeans and lived in Haran. And after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living. Yet he gave him no inheritance in it, not even a foot’s length, but promised to give it to him as a possession and to his seed after him, though he had no child. (Acts 7:2-5)
Now Yehovah said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” So Abram went, as Yehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people that they had acquired in Haran, and they set out to go to the land of Canaan. When they came to the land of Canaan, Abram passed through the land to the place at Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. At that time the Canaanites were in the land. (Genesis 12:1-6)
These passages indicate that Abram was 75 year old when Terah died at age 205, because Abram departed Haran at age 75 when his father died in Haran, which implies Terah was 130 when he became father to Abram.
So again I ask which part of Genesis can you believe and which part of Genesis can you discount because of your poor understanding of what has been written.
I argued as you did reading through the book of Genesis when I got to chapter 12 but when I had read on further and came to chapter 22, I asked the question as to why Abraham learned of his brother's family at the end of this chapter. When considering the chronology of the Biblical patriarchs and accepting what is recorded in the first 11 chapters as being correct, you can see that Terah died 60 years after Abraham left Haran. Now reading on in Genesis we come to chapter 22 and at the end of Chapter it mentions Nahor and his descendants, but in chapter 24 when Abraham's servant goes back to Haran to find a wife for Isaac we find that Nahor has died as no mention is made of him in the story but only of his son Bethuel and grandson Laban are mentioned which fits with the Book of Jasher as it also suggests that Abraham did not send his servant for a wife for Isaac until after Nahor had died.
Now from my perspective I have not discounted any part of the scriptures as not being true simply because I do not understand what another portion is actually conveying. When Stephen was giving his defence, the priests, scribes and elders did not object to what Stephen had said in his defence as Noah had died around 9 years after Abraham and Terah had left Ur of the Chaldeans. Noah was the only patriarch that died while Abraham live in Haran gaining possession and servants in his household. When Abraham left Haran he did so with a large household of some 2,000 plus people, including wives and children of herdsmen shepherds an fighting men.
Now if Terah had died before Abraham had left Haran, then Abraham would have left his brother, Nahor's household as Nahor inherited all from his father.
Now you have used Genesis 11 which provides chronological patriarchal data as to when they were born, how long they lived etc. and tells us how long Terah actually lived, but it provides no information as to when Abraham left Haran. That information is provided at the beginning of Genesis 12 which no longer is focused on the genealogy of the Patriarchs and predominately focuses on the story of Abraham's life up to when he dies and then the Genesis account focuses on Isaac's story up and until Isaac blesses Jacob and then the Genesis account focuses on Jacob's life and the story of Jacob taking his whole household and family down to Egypt and finishes with the death of Joseph.
Now I was able to discern he above story line from the Book of Genesis and resolve the Stephen riddle as to who the father was that had died before Abraham had left Haran. I discovered the Book of Jasher when I had got to the Book of Judges while I was generating my own time line of the Bible, where it was referenced by Joshua and I found that in general it confirmed what I had resolved from only reading the book of Genesis.
Now as you have not read the Book of Jasher, I do not see how you can dismiss it as a confirming source of historical information which fleshes out the Genesis account of Abraham's life and the surrounding events to Abraham's life.
Your insistence that Abraham left 60 years later than he actually did because of your miss understanding of Stephen's defence in the book of Acts destroys the symmetry of the timeline of the Bible and we end up with the same mess found in Ussher's Chronology of the Old Testament because of his miss understanding of the scriptures in the same manner as you are doing. Ussher's chronology is unreliable in many instances as he forced the biblical timeline to fit his understanding that Adam was created in the years 4004 BC. This does not fit the Biblical timeline but unfortunately his chronology has been used to force time stamps onto the history of the ancient world.
You need to do much more work to unravel your present thinking and investigation on the timeline that you have adopted.
Shalom
The "father" of Abraham mentioned in the passage in the book of Acts was referring to Terah, not Abraham's great great great great great great great great grandfather, because even though Noah lived 950 years, Noah was the 10th ancestor above Abraham.
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, and said to him, ‘Go out from your land and from your kindred and go into the land that I will show you.’ Then he went out from the land of the Chaldeans and lived in Haran. And after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living. Yet he gave him no inheritance in it, not even a foot’s length, but promised to give it to him as a possession and to his seed after him, though he had no child.
So without a doubt this a stretch of your imagination that this is referring to Noah and not Abraham's immediate father who was alive and living with him. You are forcing an idea that is simply not in this passage, when in fact the truth is alot simpler, Terah and Abram both went to Haran, when Abram was 70 years old, which is when he was called out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and was also when the 430 year countdown began,
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his seed. It does not say, “And to seeds,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your seed,” who is the Messiah. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
Then 5 years later, after Terah died, then Abram departed Haran, exactly as the passage in Acts says "and after his father died, God removed him from there into this land in which you are now living", which coincides with Genesis,
Terah took Abram his son and Lot the son of Haran, his grandson, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram’s wife, and they went forth together from Ur of the Chaldeans to go into the land of Canaan, but when they came to Haran, they settled there. The days of Terah were 205 years, and Terah died in Haran. (Genesis 11:31-32)
So Abram went, as Yehovah had told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran. (Genesis 12:4)
Then when Abram was 100 years he had Isaac, which is when the 400 year countdown began,
Then Yehovah said to Abram, “Know for certain that your seed will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and will serve, and they will be afflicted, for four hundred years. But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.
(Genesis 15:13-14)
And that explains the 30 year difference between the 400 and 430 year countdowns, when Abram was called when he was 70, and when Isaac was born when he was 100. And after his calling, 5 years later, at age 75, is when he went to Canaan from Haran, after Terah his father died.
Why Israel was not Enslaved in Egypt 400 years nor 430 years | Wisdom of God
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You are the one forcing your ideas into a passage where it is not the case. As I said, I was able to discern what I have presented from the Book of Genesis, without considering the Acts 7 account of history by Stephen.
In your post above you go on to introduce another error in your claimed wisdom, where you have assumed that Abraham and Terah moved from Ur to Haran when Abraham was 70 years old. You claiming that the record in Exodus is wrong as to the number of years that the Israelites spent in Egypt because of your adopted miss understanding of the Galatians 3:17 verse.
In considering this verse, there was exactly 430 years between when the final portion of the Covenant given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was delivered to Jacob on his way down to Egypt and when God brought them out. You have based this on a whim of miss understanding where Genesis 15:16 is referring to a period around 4,000 years, i.e. 4 generations/ages, from when Isaac was born until they returned in their own strength in 1948. God protected Israel from being slaughtered by the armies around them at that time but he did not intervene within the battles.
Your wisdom is still miss guided and is definitely not always biblical in accuracy.
Shalom
You are the one who has discerned incorrectly, which is why your idea contradicts what Stephen said in the book of Acts. After Abraham's father died in Haran, which was Terah, who went with him into Haran, then Abraham departed to Canaan. This is obvious and not so difficult to understand.
Next, Israel was not in Egypt 400 years, nor 430 years. The 400 and 430 year countdowns end at the same time, but begin in different times in the context of Abraham, which was first when he was called, at age 70, which is the beginning of the 430 year countdown, as explained by Paul, and then the other countdown when Abraham had his first descendant, which was Isaac, at age 100, thus beginning the 400 year countdown of the sojourning of the descendants of Abraham. And since we know when both countdowns begin, then we know how long Israel was truly in Egypt, because after Isaac then we know when Jacob was born, when Isaac was 60, then when Jacob entered Egypt, when he was 130 years old, which implies Israel was in Egypt 210 years years, adding and subtracting the differences using the timelines and two countdowns, (60+130)-400=210 OR (30+60+130)-430=210. We can confirm this is true because the ages of the forefathers of Moses, beginning with Kohath who was one of the 66 that entered Egypt, all do not add up to 400 years nor 430 years,
Now these are the names of the descendants of Israel, who came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons... The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. (Genesis 46:8-11)
All the persons belonging to Jacob who came into Egypt, who were his own descendants, not including Jacob’s sons’ wives, were sixty-six persons in all. (Genesis 46:26)
The sons of Kohath were Amram, Izhar, Hebron and Uzziel. Kohath lived 133 years. (Exodus 6:18)
Amram took as his wife Jochebed his father’s sister, and she bore him Aaron and Moses, the years of the life of Amram being 137 years. (Exodus 6:20)
Now Moses was eighty years old, and Aaron eighty-three years old, when they spoke to Pharaoh. (Exodus 7:7)
So adding up the years of these fathers beginning when Kohath who entered Egypt and then Moses when he left Egypt you will not arrive at more than 350 years, and that assuming if Kohath was a baby at zero years of age when he entered Egypt! So already the notion that either of the 400 and 430 years countdowns began when Israel entered Egypt is already in error.
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Was there really only four generation between when Jacob entered Egypt and when God brought them out?
The Biblical record has recorded in it that there were actually ten generation born in Egypt for what it is worth if you would care to go searching for the verse where this is recorded.
Now since the Bible is silent on the age of Abraham when the first portion of the covenant was given to him, I do not believe that you can be dogmatic as to the age of Abraham when God conversed with Him the first time. Only spending five years in Haran is not enough time for Abraham to acquire all of the wealth of his household before he leave Haran to travel down to the Land of Canaan.
But sadly this conversation is going nowhere fast because of your mistaken beliefs concerning the story of Abraham.
Shalom
I just proved to you through scripture that Israel was not in Egypt 400 years nor 430 years, using the ages of Kohath who entered Egypt, then Amram the son of Kohath, and then Moses when he left Egypt, who was the son of Amram, which is contrary to your own belief which you said,
Yet here you are still yapping and ranting in your own error, rejecting sound and logical explanations that I am giving you that harmonizes all scriptures in Genesis and also the New Testament. You are in error concerning the 400 and 430 year countdowns, concerning the time Israel was in Egypt, and also concerning the truth that Abraham left Haran when his father Terah died.
So be it, let your wisdom be paramount within your own stubborn mind as you have confused yourself with miss understanding of the context of what Stephen stated. It seems that this conversation is going nowhere fast.
Shalom
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