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Featured News FLASH: FIVE ≠ FOUR

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Bobby Jo, May 23, 2019.

  1. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    So where Daniel Chapter 2 defines the sequence of world powers we have the following false narrative from the commentators:

    1. Gold, Babylonian
    2. Silver, Medo/Persian
    3. Bronze, Grecian
    4.a. Roman, Iron
    4.b. Revived Roman, Clay with residue of Iron

    Of course, this can't be true, because the Feet of Clay is called a "Divided KINGDOM". Thus there MUST be FIVE separate and distinct world Empires, -- exactly as History fulfills by the Three Superpowers and U.N. in this last "Divided KINGDOM".

    FURTHERMORE, Verse 45 provides the sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE. Coincidence? NO. -- Historical FACT? YES.


    So if Scripture and History both AGREE that Chapter 2 presents a FIVE World Empire scenario, then what should we think of the commentators who assert that FIVE = FOUR, given their assertion that Chapter 7 is a REPEAT of Chapter 2?


    Could it be that the Chapter 7 FOUR represent the concurrent empires in the FIFTH "Divided KINGDOM"?


    Nah, that'd be too obvious ...
    Bobby Jo
     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on whether or not you can dump the traditional understanding.

    There is a gap of around 2,000 years between the third and the fourth segments in the Statue prophecy, because the third segment with dominion over the land of Babylon devastated and desolated the land of Babylon before the time of Christ for two ages of time.

    The fourth segment only came into reality in 1926 as a mandate of Great Britain before it split off and became independent. The Fourth segments is Iraq. Check out the history of Iraq to see for yourself.

    The fifth segment is the Coalition of the Willing lead by the USA military where the commander in chief is the President, i.e. the king over the land of the USA, and nineteen other nations who entered the land of Babylon to heal the land, instead of destroying the land and its people.

    But for those who want to adhere to the past traditions of understanding, the above is a stretch for their understanding.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  3. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    If you like the lies of the commentators, then yeah, FIVE = FOUR. But if you like what Scripture says and what History fulfills, then FIVE ≠ FOUR. And if FIVE ≠ FOUR, then the FIFTH "Divided KINGDOM" Empire of Clay is comprised of the FOUR: Three Concurrent Superpowers and the United Nations.


    Perhaps the source of your confusion lies either in your math skills, or your knowledge of MODERN HISTORY!
    Bobby Jo
     
  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is your theory but not mine and no I do not accept the tradition of the commentators as can be seen from my post above.

    I also accept that you are not necessarily addressing me with your, "your," in your response to my post and as such I do not take offence at your attempted put down.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it can be -- and is true -- in that the future kingdoms (nations) which will be involved with the Antichrist will all arise out of the countries which were a part of the Roman Empire (which does not exist). All these nations are located around the Mediterranean see. And "iron mixed with clay" does not necessarily mean a divided kingdom. It can also mean a weakened empire (broken up and no longer a unified whole), since clay has no strength in comparison to iron.
     
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  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    I have no clue what you are saying, -- if you're saying anything at all! Whose theory, -- the one you call "our theory", or the theory that is not yours and you do not accept?!?

    Are there two of you talking at the same time?

    Please put they guy on who can count to some number in excess of FIVE, and maybe we can have a discussion. -- But don't tell the other guy, he's confused enough the way it is ...


    Bobby Jo
     
  7. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know that you are confused. I added one symbol to remove you your confusion, but your theory is still from the confusion of your own mind, and you know what I mean.
     
  8. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but ROME IS DEAD. Another (Italy) occupies historical Rome, and other nations have ascended in other previously Roman occupied lands.

    But perhaps you slept in your History classes, so it's perfectly understandable that this should come as a surprise. SURPRISE! :)


    Whew,
    Bobby Jo



    To All,

    It's difficult for me to think that ANYONE would defend a doctrine that is so flawed, -- both Scripturally and Historically, -- and given the average I.Q. is 100 --, that we could find someone that thinks he can divine TEN NATIONS out of the European Union which consists of 35 Members, Applicants, & Candidates:

    MEMBERS:
    1. Austria
    2. Belgium
    3. Bulgaria
    4. Croatia
    5. Cyprus
    6. Czech Republic
    7. Denmark
    8. Estonia
    9. Finland
    10. France
    11. Germany
    12. Greece
    13. Hungary
    14. Ireland
    15. Italy
    16. Latvia
    17. Lithuania
    18. Luxembourg
    19. Malta
    20. Netherlands
    21. Poland
    22. Portugal
    23. Romania
    24. Slovakia
    25. Slovenia
    26. Spain
    27. Sweden
    28. United Kingdom
    APPLICANTS:
    1. Albania
    2. Montenegro
    3. Serbia
    4. The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
    5. Turkey

    CANDIDATES:

    1. Bosnia and Herzegovina
    2. Kosovo


    Brain Washing Anyone?
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  9. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    If you're defending the FALSE Feet-Of-Clay Revived Roman Empire doctrine, you're not presenting ANY Evidence. Do you have any Evidence for what you believe? Do you know what Evidence IS? Do you know what you Believe? Can you put the two together and assemble a reasonable and well articulated argument?


    Or, preferably, is the other guy available?
    Bobby Jo
     
  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    First off, in Post 2# above I did articulate who I know is the fourth and fifth segments of the Statue prophecy are.

    So to list them all for you, they are: -

    1. Babylon
    2. Medes and Persians
    3. The Greek Empires, first Alexander the Great, followed by the Greek empire which was to the north of Babylon.

    There is a gap of two ages, i.e. a little longer than 2,000 years at this point in the history of the land of Babylon and those that had dominion over it.
    Then after the fulfilment of the two ages the nations that has had and still do have dominion over the land of Babylon are: -

    4. Iraq
    5. The Coalition of the Willing lead by a second king of the North, namely the "king" of the USA.

    Now Baby Jo if you had actually read my previous post then you would have understood that I made no mention of the Roman empire as being the fourth segment of the statue or that the Revived Roman Empire was the fifth segment of the state prophecy.

    Perhaps you need someone to read and explain to you what people post so that you comprehend their posts and what they have actually written instead of the dribble that comes out in your replies to other peoples posts.

    I was posting the above list ten years ago for the nations which have had and still do have dominion over the Land of Babylon and nothing has caused my understanding to change. In fact the insults back then were far better and more pointed. Nothing has really changed with people holding onto their pet theories.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Did I say Rome was alive? You are one obnoxious person who does not have their facts straight.
     
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  12. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE=Enoch111
    future kingdoms (nations) which will be involved with the Antichrist will all arise out of the countries which were a part of the Roman Empire

    You keep asserting that ROME is involved as part of the Feet Of Clay. News FLASH: THEY AIN'T. To propose such a ludicrous idea is to defy REALITY. And you're more than entitled to believe whatever comes to your mind,. I just think that there should be some TANGIBLE EVIDENCE of such a premise, and there is ABSOLUTELY NONE, either in Scripture or History.


    I think that TEN of the ancient Roman gods will appear to fulfill the TEN Toes. -- Yeah, not.
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  13. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    I LOVE "gaps". That's when History contradicts some "theory", and so the "dreamer" creates a "gap" is cover his nonsense. It happens in Daniel 7, 8, 9, 11, and maybe MORE instances, -- BECAUSE THE DREAMER CAN'T MAKE HIS NONSENSE WORK.

    Now perhaps if the DREAMER followed the angel's instructions, maybe his dream could match BOTH Scripture and History. But that's not how DREAMERS operate:

    Deut. 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the Lord has not spoken ...

    No Evidence, -- No Truth.


    And if I might suggest, -- you have absolutely NO concept of how to GET to Chapter 11, much less any ability to "interpret" what it means.

    Whew,
    Bobby Jo
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo you love your grand words of arrogance where you make claims that people who understand the prophetic scriptures, and can see where there are gaps in the timeline between prophetic events where others cannot, are dreamers who write nonsense.

    Now are you able to understand whether or not a prophet's word, whether written or spoken, has come to pass or come true?

    The evidence that you have provided, suggests that Deu.18:22 applies to you, since you are not speaking the truth from God's word.

    Have a good day now, you here me.
     
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  15. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Well it appears that you'll never find out, because scoffers inherently can't receive from GOD:

    1 Peter 3:3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, ...


    But don't worry, I'm quite confident nothing ill will come of your disdain for GOD's Prophetic Word. :)

    Bobby Jo
     
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo have it your way and cry out like little Peter, wolf, wolf, wolf. Eventually people do get the message.

    You claim many things but as of yet your evidence is from the tradition of the False Prophets. Time will tell us the truth of the matter.

    In around 25 years time, Matt.24:32, the kings of the earth will assemble at Armageddon to be judged by Christ and then to be locked up in a pit to await their punishment that will occur after many days as foretold in Isa.24:21-22.

    At the same time, the wicked fallen heavenly hosts will be judged in heaven with no place for them to stay in heaven, they will be tossed out of heaven and they will come down to the earth to be gathered into the pit with the kings of the earth and will be locked up in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years when it will be unlocked for all in the pit for a little while period to do their worst.

    In around 25 years time, God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth and the foundational rock of true faith will come into pre-eminence here on the earth.

    The 2,300 years of the trampling of the sanctuary of God will come to a completion/end after which all of the true Israelites will be saved.

    But until the time span of these Biblical Prophecies have run their full time span of revelation to reveal God's truth, judgement as to whether or not they are either true or false must wait if we are to await the confirmation of History. But faith in God's Prophetic word will reveal the truth of the matter to those who walk hand in hand with God.

    Shalom
     
  17. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Don't you just love it when people shoot in any direction and then declare that they hit the barn. Not their own barn, but some neighbors barn in some direction, any direction.


    But given Scriptural guidance regarding "teachers", you're probably better off shooting blindly hoping for a barn, -- than shooting your mouth off. :)


    Bobby Jo
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby you can keep going shooting your mouth off, but I did not not make a claim that I was right with the around 25 years into our future which I linked to certain biblical prophecies when these prophecies will occur. Until the 25 or so years have passed, neither I nor you are in a position to make any claims at all as to whether or not what I posted above is correct.

    Your rebuttal has so far been ridicule of the person, and we all know that that is a false argument technique, when the poster has no other argument to present to back up their opinions. It seems that is where you are at present.

    Now I have agreed that the first three segments of the Dan.2 statue prophecy are Babylon, Medes and Persian and the Greek Empire.

    However, I do disagree with your understanding of which nations has had dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon after the Greek Empire.

    With regards to Dan.7:1-12, I agree with you that we can identify the manifestations of the four "winds"/heavenly hosts that have cause the seas to rise up/manifest their respective characteristics, where: -

    1. The first "wind"/heavenly host beastly manifestation in the sea could be associated with the Babylon Empire.
    2. The second "wind"/heavenly host beastly manifestation in the sea could be associated with the Medes / Persian Empire.
    3. The third "wind"/heavenly host beastly manifestation in the sea could be associated with the division of Alexandra the Greats Empire after his death where the Roman Empire is one of the divisions of His Empire before he died.
    4. The fourth "wind"/heavenly host beastly manifestation in the sea could be associated with the Islamic dominated Empires made up of ten kingdoms.

    The fifth beast is the Little Horn which is initially associated with one of the power empires of the third beasts empire initially, until the manifestation of the fourth "wind"/heavenly host's beastly manifestation occurs after God scattered the Israelites to the four corners of the earth.

    In Dan.8 the little horn is given an "army" to go up against Christ when he was born and then to scatter the Israelites to the four corners of the earth. The Little Horn is to cause the sanctuary of God to be trampled by the Gentile nations and their armies for 2,300 years

    In the Dan.7 account there is a gap of 1,000 years that occurs after their judgement in Dan. 7:1-12 and when the story picks up again after Dan. 7:19ff about the activities of a four faceted "beast," which is an amalgamation of the "four winds of heaven"/heavenly hosts and the little horn where the prophesised latter day acts are also recorded in Rev. 13 during the little while period at the end of the Millennium Age.

    Because of your belief in your understanding of Daniel. 2, 7, 8 and 9, you started a new thread without resolving any of the points that I was making concerning your expressed views in this thread. A sign that your expressed views are suspect.

    Have a great day, now.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  19. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Jay Ross said: ... In around 25 years time, ...
    You have no idea what you're talking about with regard to your purported "25 years" guesstimation. Scripturally based evidence to the contrary is available to anyone who cares to discover it.


    Jay Ross said:
    1. The first "wind" ... Babylon Empire.
    2. The second "wind" ... Medes / Persian Empire.
    3. The third "wind" ... Alexandra the Greats Empire ...
    4. The fourth "wind" ... could be associated with the Islamic dominated Empires made up of ten kingdoms.


    ... Because of your belief in your understanding of Daniel. 2, 7, 8 and 9, ...
    Don't you love when Chapter 2 says FIVE, but you deliver FOUR?!? And even the "fourth" is per your imagination. Is Scripture and History so insufficient for you that shooting blindly hoping to hit a barn, any barn, is your solution?


    My favorite aunt used to tease: "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts." She was kidding, but you're serious.


    Let me know when you have FIVE World Empires (Ref. Daniel 2:45) ...
    Bobby Jo

     
  20. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby when you can correctly restate what I have posted, then I will take your rebuttals seriously and respond accordingly.

    I did list the first three nations/empires that had dominion over the land of the Chaldeans/Babylon and I also stated that I disagreed with your understanding the fourth and fifth segments. I have previously stated that in my understanding that the fourth segment of the statue prophecy is Iraq which reappeared in 1926 as prophesied it would in Rev.16:17-2 after WW1 and then the fifth segment of the statue prophecy is the Coalition of the Willing, the twenty nations that joined together to invade Iraq after the 9/11 event.

    In my last post I stated clearly the manifestation empires of the four winds of Heaven. But again you have resorted to ridicule to support you justification of a put down.

    Now with regards to your claim, "You have no idea what you're talking about with regard to your purported "25 years" guesstimation. Scripturally based evidence to the contrary is available to anyone who cares to discover it.", why not put your money where your mouth is and provide the scriptural evidence to support your claim that you do personally know when the list of prophesied event I provided will occur.

    I await your gift of wisdom for all on this site.

    Have a good day now
     
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