No Church Will Accept Me

[Chilehead]

Hello Folks,

I joined this forum in hopes of getting some answers. Long story short, I am a socially isolated individual who accepts Christ as Savior, but no congregation within a 30-mile radius will accept me into their group. It all boils down to a conviction I have concerning the subject of the rapture of the church that no mainstream denomination will accept. I have exhausted the available churches I am comfortable attending, as all have people in leadership that have asked me to leave accuse me of employing "a spirit of division". Nothing could be further from the truth. I was hoping to find at least some form of informal social interaction here, as I have never experienced friendship nor do I have any family. Thanks.

 

[lforrest]

Welcome Chilehead,

Being this is a diverse community and not really a church, we have members with many differing beliefs. Please take a look at our Statement of Faith to see what beliefs we hope everyone here agrees with.

 

[StanJ]

Hello Folks,

I joined this forum in hopes of getting some answers. Long story short, I am a socially isolated individual who accepts Christ as Savior, but no congregation within a 30-mile radius will accept me into their group. It all boils down to a conviction I have concerning the subject of the rapture of the church that no mainstream denomination will accept. I have exhausted the available churches I am comfortable attending, as all have people in leadership that have asked me to leave accuse me of employing "a spirit of division". Nothing could be further from the truth. I was hoping to find at least some form of informal social interaction here, as I have never experienced friendship nor do I have any family. Thanks.

Welcome Chilehead,
IMO, one needs to find out from God where He wants you to be, and go from there. IF your goal is simply to fellowship with totally like minded believers, you will never be settled. This is a good place to discuss your opinions, but as forrest said, it is NOT a place to replace the local church.

 

[rockytopva]

Welcome Chilehead, I believe in a rapture too, so we are in good company.

 

[TopherNelson]

Welcome aboard!
It is nice to have you here! Don't worry about it!

The opposite happened to me... I will accept no "man church". Each church I go to, they will look down on me... Because I'm young and 15 and my faith "beliefs" are "not strong".
These church are really boring... I don't like being in a church with dead people listening to a pastor preaching. This is not how a church is supposed to be!

 

[Skitnik]

Some believers do not get accepted by "mainstream church" because they have "too much Jesus" in them, they are too eager to seek God and not religion or because they do carry nothing but divisions and false doctrines with them. Hard to say which end of that spectrum you are coming from without knowing more about what your beliefs are and what they are based on. I do not question goodness and sincerity of your intentions but jumping to conclusions and start ridiculing and condemning "mainstream church" just based on your opinion of it is a bit unreasonable based on just your opinion about it.

What is your belief about the rapture? "Mainstream church" has so many pre-post-mid-partial-no...... tribulation factions in it! Hard to believe that you could possibly come up with a new one.

What "mainstream church" denominations did you go to? Some areas are dominated by one or another. What country do you live in?

 

[Deborah_]

Christians hold a wide variety of opinions concerning the end times and the rapture. In most churches there will be a diversity of opinions.

This subject is only divisive if you want to make it so. Are you trying to force your particular conviction (whatever it is) on others who disagree with you? If you want to have fellowship with other believers, either online or offline, you will need to accept that these disagreements exist and learn to live with them. if your view is a 'minority' one, then learn to accept that. You may, after all, be wrong....

The vital doctrine, the thing that is non-negotiable, is that Jesus WILL return some day. The details of when and how are 'small-print'; don't make a big issue out of them.

 

[TopherNelson]

Hey;

Here's how I feel about the "rapture". Throughout the bible, Jesus says the day and the hour no one knows. But, Jesus says to keep watch and don't fall asleep. We are the children of the day, do not be caught asleep when Jesus returns. I do not care how the "rapture" will be like, I just know I will be saved through grace.

I live in Malaysia right now. Churches are largely mixed with the worries of this world, they are choked. I fear the churches will lose faith when troubles of man comes. It is really miserable, you can't have both. Jesus or this world.

I do not like mainstream churches. Churches are largely sedentary most of the time, the only time is when they do move around is at the beginning and at the end. I don't like the concept of pastor "preaching" and people listening and shouting a few "hallelujah!" and "amen!" here and there... Some even went "fishing"!

 

[Chilehead]

Many replies here. Okay, let me clarify a few things to you.....
1.) I did not come here to "replace" church, judge anyone, force my beliefs on anyone, or have assumptions drawn about me as reflected in the above posts.
2.) Read the ORIGINAL LINES in my original post, and not IN BETWEEN THE LINES (hence, the reason for point one, above). I came here to fellowship with Christians, and gave a little back-story why. That's it.
3.) My belief about the concept of the rapture event is that it does not exist, but Christ's second coming does.
4.) Please do not hijack this thread, turning it into a debate. Hijacking threads on any level are disrespectful to the original poster. THIS original poster will extend the courtesy of never doing so, and I would like to expect the same from the members here.
5.) I don't play politics--ever.
6.) I believe the bible to be authored by God, written by men, and inspired by The Holy Spirit.
7.) The church is not a facility or 501-3(c) non-profit organization, but rather the collective number of Christians worldwide who practice the tenets written in the bible.
8.) I have decades of experience of people displaying the appearance of welcoming me into a group, only to find out it was superficial. I have no time for such nonsense. If you are going to welcome me in, I expect you to follow through as well (and yes, I know that I have to follow suit).

 

[lforrest]

Your backstory is fair game for discussion, since you brought it up. But if we want to delve deeper into discussions of doctrines, such as the rapture, we really should move it to another topic.

I hope we can live up to your expectations.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Chilehead,
Welcome to Christianity Board! I hope you enjoy your time here. I am interested in your take on the Rapture and hope for some fruitful discussions. Just to make my position clear ~ I do not believe in the "Rapture Doctrine."

Bless you and welcome!

 

[r4hnsn]

Hi Chilehead, you say "I joined this forum in hopes of getting some answers" so i
trust you will accept peoples take on your situation and hope you will be gracious
with those of us who don't get you or seem to be reading between the lines?

Mostly i hope you are open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your
position or just going about life and fellowship the wrong way, and that God might
be using others to bring you to "the more excellent way" Acts 18:26
We are all fallible, Samuel was wrong about Gods selection of David for King, and
so also all the other prophets at some point of their ministry.

As for finding friends, i think you will find they are not found but made.To get
friends we need to be a friend. We don't need to yield our position to be a friend,
but if we only make our point of difference the criteria,we will live a lonely life.
It dawned on me recently that i was not looking for points of common ground with
others, but seperating myself by pushing my favourite topic or doctrine etc.
Imagine there is a 2 ft circle between two people, and one steps forward into it,
but dosen't leave any room for the other to step forward. Will they not turn away
and leave offended?

I hope i left room in the circle? if not tell me and i will try to do better.
I already love you brother for you have shown humility and asked for help, but more
than that Christ loves you and therefore so do I.

Your brother Arthur.

 

[Chilehead]

Hi Chilehead,
Welcome to Christianity Board! I hope you enjoy your time here. I am interested in your take on the Rapture and hope for some fruitful discussions. Just to make my position clear ~ I do not believe in the "Rapture Doctrine."

Bless you and welcome!

Thank you.

 

[Chilehead]

Hi Chilehead, you say "I joined this forum in hopes of getting some answers" so i
trust you will accept peoples take on your situation and hope you will be gracious
with those of us who don't get you or seem to be reading between the lines?

Mostly i hope you are open to the possibility that you may be wrong about your
position or just going about life and fellowship the wrong way, and that God might
be using others to bring you to "the more excellent way" Acts 18:26
We are all fallible, Samuel was wrong about Gods selection of David for King, and
so also all the other prophets at some point of their ministry.

As for finding friends, i think you will find they are not found but made.To get
friends we need to be a friend. We don't need to yield our position to be a friend,
but if we only make our point of difference the criteria,we will live a lonely life.
It dawned on me recently that i was not looking for points of common ground with
others, but seperating myself by pushing my favourite topic or doctrine etc.
Imagine there is a 2 ft circle between two people, and one steps forward into it,
but dosen't leave any room for the other to step forward. Will they not turn away
and leave offended?

I hope i left room in the circle? if not tell me and i will try to do better.
I already love you brother for you have shown humility and asked for help, but more
than that Christ loves you and therefore so do I.

Your brother Arthur.

Yes, you have left room in the circle. Thanks.

 

[Wormwood]

Many replies here. Okay, let me clarify a few things to you.....
1.) I did not come here to "replace" church, judge anyone, force my beliefs on anyone, or have assumptions drawn about me as reflected in the above posts.
2.) Read the ORIGINAL LINES in my original post, and not IN BETWEEN THE LINES (hence, the reason for point one, above). I came here to fellowship with Christians, and gave a little back-story why. That's it.
3.) My belief about the concept of the rapture event is that it does not exist, but Christ's second coming does.
4.) Please do not hijack this thread, turning it into a debate. Hijacking threads on any level are disrespectful to the original poster. THIS original poster will extend the courtesy of never doing so, and I would like to expect the same from the members here.
5.) I don't play politics--ever.
6.) I believe the bible to be authored by God, written by men, and inspired by The Holy Spirit.
7.) The church is not a facility or 501-3© non-profit organization, but rather the collective number of Christians worldwide who practice the tenets written in the bible.
8.) I have decades of experience of people displaying the appearance of welcoming me into a group, only to find out it was superficial. I have no time for such nonsense. If you are going to welcome me in, I expect you to follow through as well (and yes, I know that I have to follow suit).

Chilehead,

Just a couple quick observations. First, if you are looking for believers who do not make the concept of the "rapture" part of their eschatology, I would recommend some non-denominational Christian Churches or even some from the holiness traditions (such as Nazarene, Wesleyan, etc.). Second, it concerns me that you are being thrown out by these churches for being divisive. I have never known a church to throw someone out over an issue of eschatology. Many people in the church I attend have differences of opinion on eschatology and we fellowship nicely together. If the leadership of multiple churches has approached you and asked you to leave beacuse they felt you were causing problems, then you may want to really pray about if God is trying to tell you something here. Personally, I agree with you that the "rapture" as portrayed by premillennial dispensationalists is not a biblical doctrine. However, even as strongly as I feel about the subject, I cannot imagine even the most committed dispensational church would actually throw me out of their fellowship unless I was really being disruptive about it.

Obviously, I dont know the details, so I wont assume the problem is you, but, if I were in your shoes I would take a good hard look in the mirror.

As for your fellowship here, I certainly welcome it. We have people with all kinds of views on various doctrines and we allow for vigorous debate. Just make sure you keep the debate focused on ideas and doctrines and do not start attacking people and their character. Moderators generally do not step in when debates get heated unless someone is being personally attacked and the OP is getting derailed. I look forward to hearing your views and reflecting on them. You will find this is a community of believers who really love the Lord and like to stretch each other in our understanding of the Scriptures and knowledge of Christ. Glad you can be a part of it.

 

[Chilehead]

Chilehead,

Just a couple quick observations. First, if you are looking for believers who do not make the concept of the "rapture" part of their eschatology, I would recommend some non-denominational Christian Churches or even some from the holiness traditions (such as Nazarene, Wesleyan, etc.). Second, it concerns me that you are being thrown out by these churches for being divisive. I have never known a church to throw someone out over an issue of eschatology. Many people in the church I attend have differences of opinion on eschatology and we fellowship nicely together. If the leadership of multiple churches has approached you and asked you to leave beacuse they felt you were causing problems, then you may want to really pray about if God is trying to tell you something here. Personally, I agree with you that the "rapture" as portrayed by premillennial dispensationalists is not a biblical doctrine. However, even as strongly as I feel about the subject, I cannot imagine even the most committed dispensational church would actually throw me out of their fellowship unless I was really being disruptive about it.

Obviously, I dont know the details, so I wont assume the problem is you, but, if I were in your shoes I would take a good hard look in the mirror.

As for your fellowship here, I certainly welcome it. We have people with all kinds of views on various doctrines and we allow for vigorous debate. Just make sure you keep the debate focused on ideas and doctrines and do not start attacking people and their character. Moderators generally do not step in when debates get heated unless someone is being personally attacked and the OP is getting derailed. I look forward to hearing your views and reflecting on them. You will find this is a community of believers who really love the Lord and like to stretch each other in our understanding of the Scriptures and knowledge of Christ. Glad you can be a part of it.

I'd first like to say that I respect your point of view. As far as being asked to leave, it has been performed in a variety of ways from confrontational to passive-aggressive. Normally it goes something like this....
I start attending somewhere. Everyone is sweet as pie for the first month or two. As people get to know me, biblical issues are discussed. If there is an issue where I disagree with the masses, I do my best to remain silent on the issue, but this isn't always possible--sometimes you are asked point blank. I will state what I believe (a doctrinal disagreement, no more nor less) and leave it at that. From that moment in time, one of two possible outcomes manifest themselves. 1.) I get a call from the pastor for a friendly one-on-one chat. When we meet he has 3-4 other men there and they tell me about their "concerns" (i.e. doctrinal disagreements). I kindly respond that my views are based on convictions of what I believe is right. They all then go on about how I can believe whatever I want, but can't be expected to remain in good standing if I choose to follow "unsound doctrine". I am then told that it would be best if I converted to their way of thinking, that they would be praying for me, and then I could come back "practicing truth".
2.) Word gets around the congregation of my "unsound doctrine" and I am shunned. No greeting, no eye contact, no returned phone calls, no fellowship. For the record, I have never pushed any of my beliefs on anyone, like EVER. Biblically, it is The Holy Spirit that does the convicting. It is my duty to share the Gospel, and be a living example of how God wants people to be. People's views may differ, but it is not for me (nor others) to play judge and jury--that's God's domain.

 

[lforrest]

I'd first like to say that I respect your point of view. As far as being asked to leave, it has been performed in a variety of ways from confrontational to passive-aggressive. Normally it goes something like this....
I start attending somewhere. Everyone is sweet as pie for the first month or two. As people get to know me, biblical issues are discussed. If there is an issue where I disagree with the masses, I do my best to remain silent on the issue, but this isn't always possible--sometimes you are asked point blank. I will state what I believe (a doctrinal disagreement, no more nor less) and leave it at that. From that moment in time, one of two possible outcomes manifest themselves. 1.) I get a call from the pastor for a friendly one-on-one chat. When we meet he has 3-4 other men there and they tell me about their "concerns" (i.e. doctrinal disagreements). I kindly respond that my views are based on convictions of what I believe is right. They all then go on about how I can believe whatever I want, but can't be expected to remain in good standing if I choose to follow "unsound doctrine". I am then told that it would be best if I converted to their way of thinking, that they would be praying for me, and then I could come back "practicing truth".
2.) Word gets around the congregation of my "unsound doctrine" and I am shunned. No greeting, no eye contact, no returned phone calls, no fellowship. For the record, I have never pushed any of my beliefs on anyone, like EVER. Biblically, it is The Holy Spirit that does the convicting. It is my duty to share the Gospel, and be a living example of how God wants people to be. People's views may differ, but it is not for me (nor others) to play judge and jury--that's God's domain.

IMO, If all this was over a disputable matter like the nature of the rapture it is totally disgraceful. The pastor was a liar if he lured you into an ambush with the promise of a 1 on 1. Then for word to spread among the congregation shows a complete lack of confidentiality. I'm not going to judge that church without hearing their side, but from what you've shared I can understand why you left.

 

[r4hnsn]

2.) Word gets around the congregation of my "unsound doctrine" and I am shunned. No greeting, no eye contact, no returned phone calls, no fellowship. For the record, I have never pushed any of my beliefs on anyone, like EVER. Biblically, it is The Holy Spirit that does the convicting. It is my duty to share the Gospel, and be a living example of how God wants people to be. People's views may differ, but it is not for me (nor others) to play judge and jury--that's God's domain.

I hold very different doctrine to most churches ive come accross, i.e being without sin (instantaneous entire sanctification), divorce and remarriage and "original sin" which is not found anywhere in the Bible, but I havn't been shunned in pentecostal circles that i'm aware of (maybe i'm thick skinned)?
I think people that would shun others from doctrinal differences are only showing who their father is, unless you were being divisive which is totally different from having difference of opinion or doctrine.

 

[r4hnsn]

P.S you strike me as a very nice guy, with a good relationship with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wormwood]

I start attending somewhere. Everyone is sweet as pie for the first month or two. As people get to know me, biblical issues are discussed. If there is an issue where I disagree with the masses, I do my best to remain silent on the issue, but this isn't always possible--sometimes you are asked point blank. I will state what I believe (a doctrinal disagreement, no more nor less) and leave it at that. From that moment in time, one of two possible outcomes manifest themselves. 1.) I get a call from the pastor for a friendly one-on-one chat. When we meet he has 3-4 other men there and they tell me about their "concerns" (i.e. doctrinal disagreements). I kindly respond that my views are based on convictions of what I believe is right. They all then go on about how I can believe whatever I want, but can't be expected to remain in good standing if I choose to follow "unsound doctrine". I am then told that it would be best if I converted to their way of thinking, that they would be praying for me, and then I could come back "practicing truth".
2.) Word gets around the congregation of my "unsound doctrine" and I am shunned. No greeting, no eye contact, no returned phone calls, no fellowship. For the record, I have never pushed any of my beliefs on anyone, like EVER. Biblically, it is The Holy Spirit that does the convicting. It is my duty to share the Gospel, and be a living example of how God wants people to be. People's views may differ, but it is not for me (nor others) to play judge and jury--that's God's domain.

Im very sorry to hear that. I would like to hear more about your views on eschatology. I am sure you will find here lots of varying opinions and though we allow for vigorous debate, we do not silence people or kick them out for minority views. I hold a lot of minority views on various issues, myself. The important thing is that we strive to honor God with our conduct. So, I hope you feel at home here and free to voice your views as well as hear from the perspectives of others and why they hold them.

Also, I would encourage you to look into the churches I mentioned. Most of them are not generally premillennial if those who hold those views have been the source of much of this conflict.