- Dec 11, 2006
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No Rapture
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Yes as long as you understand that any meeting in the air if there is one is at the 7th trump that Antichrist comes first and any meeting is short lived as christ reigns and rules here on earth. That no one is flyaway any where ...
QUOTE (Christina @ Feb 24 2009, 08:08 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69825
QUOTE (watchman @ Feb 24 2009, 08:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69823
Is a post trib rapture believer, the same as a no rapture believer?
Yes as long as you understand that any meeting in the air if there is one is at the 7th trump that Antichrist comes first and any meeting is short lived as christ reigns and rules here on earth. That no one is flyaway any where ...
Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
QUOTE (watchman @ Feb 24 2009, 08:02 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69823
Is a post trib rapture believer, the same as a no rapture believer?
Yes as long as you understand that any meeting in the air if there is one is at the 7th trump that Antichrist comes first and any meeting is short lived as christ reigns and rules here on earth. That no one is flyaway any where ...
cedarhart
When good men do nothing, evil will triumph.Take a
- Nov 17, 2008
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"No Rapture:" Part 2: 1 Thess. 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Strong's =109 aer ah-ayr' from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient):--air. - psucho 5594. God breathed His Spirit into man. Here "air" means Spirit. We are changed when Christ arrives and will meet Him in our Spirit. Verses in this chapter refer to "Where are the dead?" We cannot proceed or prevent them, as they are already there. Paul spoke cloakial Greek as it was not his first language. Clouds also refer to "group" as meet in a group. etc. "a cloud of blackbirds or cloud of locust".Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Note the word "see" and "coming". We witness this event. The Son of man is coming HERE with HIS army.Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Christ comes here to set up His Kingdom in Jerusalem with His own clouds of angels. "every eye shall see him" indicates, again, that we shall be here to witness the event.The following is presented to illustrate what God thinks of the "fly away", Rapture Theory." Rapture is NOT mentioned in the Word of God. Not directly NOR indirectly.Ezekiel 13: ( concerns False Prophets and Prophetesses ) 18 And say , Thus saith the Lord God: Woe to the women that sew pillows to all arm holes and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt souls of My People, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you ? (They cover God's outstretched saving arms. Only God saves souls.) 19 And will ye pollute Me among My People for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live by your LYING to My People that hear your lies ? (Some will trade their Souls for the promise of prosperity from antichrist, unaware of who he is because they did not read God's Letter.)20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God: Behold I am AGAINST your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them FLY, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go , even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly! (Evil seduces Souls unaware.)21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My People out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I AM the Lord. (Here, God Himself, contradicts the rapture theory.)22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hand of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life. (God is not please with this at all.)23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity , nor divine divinations; for I will deliver My People out of your hand; and ye shall know that I am the Lord. (Hallelujah!)
That Ezekiel verse that people are quoting is not contradicting a rapture. The whole Ezekiel 13 passage seems to be God telling people who are practicing some sort of ancient voodoo that He is God and He will deliver His people. I don't think Ezekiel says anything about a rapture one way or another. I just finished reading the book of Ezekiel two weeks agoAlso the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 passage seems to be talking in metaphors, although I don't quite understand what the metaphor is. Earlier in 1 Thess. 4 sleep seems to mean people who have died that have not accepted Jesus Christ as saviour. Those that are alive could mean the people who have accepted Christ but are not yet with Him for whatever reason. I don't understand it fully but it seems to be referring to spiritual things and not literal things.
QUOTE (tomwebster @ Feb 24 2009, 07:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=69821
This topic is for no-rapture believes:
In behalf of Paul's statement we will rise up to meet our King at his coming. The event that brings Christ back to earth is at the end of the 1260 days of the beast/8th king as Rev 17:11 defines this man. Rapture believers think they won't be here for the tribulation. If they could only see and understand the word of God on this.The taking up of the Christians can NOT take place till the Saints have gone before the beast/false prophet. And the dead have to rise first which Daniel 12:11-12 tells us from the time of the daily sacrifices to the Coming of Christ is 1335 days. We don't know the hour or the day but Christ has given this verse to give us an idea. Don't trust this 8th king and his false prophet for anything. For he will try flattery and show favor to those who will forsake the holy covenant. Dan 11:30. It is in Daniel 7:25-27 telling us that this man will oppress his Saints and try to "Change the Set time" for Christ's return.But the courts will set and this Son of Perdition's power will be removed from him by Christ. These are exciting verses to read. I love them; for they describe what we need to be ready for and trusting our Lord to see us through this time ahead of us. My heart goes out to the body of Christ that have been taught that they will be raptured out of this tribulation. No where does the bible make that known. It has been men who do not study the words of God fully and have left their members unprepared. If anything when we can and we should encourage the rapture believers to trust in the Lord when trouble comes upon this soil. I don't want to see any fall away because they have only been told of a loving God. They haven't been told we have a God full of wrath to his disobedient children and his enemies. Let us hold tight to that which we have proved in truth. for the Lord is coming and we are going into captivity. IN Christ's precious words. Vickie
This topic is for no-rapture believes:
In behalf of Paul's statement we will rise up to meet our King at his coming. The event that brings Christ back to earth is at the end of the 1260 days of the beast/8th king as Rev 17:11 defines this man. Rapture believers think they won't be here for the tribulation. If they could only see and understand the word of God on this.The taking up of the Christians can NOT take place till the Saints have gone before the beast/false prophet. And the dead have to rise first which Daniel 12:11-12 tells us from the time of the daily sacrifices to the Coming of Christ is 1335 days. We don't know the hour or the day but Christ has given this verse to give us an idea. Don't trust this 8th king and his false prophet for anything. For he will try flattery and show favor to those who will forsake the holy covenant. Dan 11:30. It is in Daniel 7:25-27 telling us that this man will oppress his Saints and try to "Change the Set time" for Christ's return.But the courts will set and this Son of Perdition's power will be removed from him by Christ. These are exciting verses to read. I love them; for they describe what we need to be ready for and trusting our Lord to see us through this time ahead of us. My heart goes out to the body of Christ that have been taught that they will be raptured out of this tribulation. No where does the bible make that known. It has been men who do not study the words of God fully and have left their members unprepared. If anything when we can and we should encourage the rapture believers to trust in the Lord when trouble comes upon this soil. I don't want to see any fall away because they have only been told of a loving God. They haven't been told we have a God full of wrath to his disobedient children and his enemies. Let us hold tight to that which we have proved in truth. for the Lord is coming and we are going into captivity. IN Christ's precious words. Vickie
QUOTE (For Life @ Feb 28 2009, 10:54 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70038
Also the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 passage seems to be talking in metaphors, although I don't quite understand what the metaphor is. Earlier in 1 Thess. 4 sleep seems to mean people who have died that have not accepted Jesus Christ as saviour. Those that are alive could mean the people who have accepted Christ but are not yet with Him for whatever reason. I don't understand it fully but it seems to be referring to spiritual things and not literal things.
1st Thess 413 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. those that are asleep are not the dead that have not accept Jesus those that are aslepp are saved, and those that are alive are actually living breathing people.
Also the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 passage seems to be talking in metaphors, although I don't quite understand what the metaphor is. Earlier in 1 Thess. 4 sleep seems to mean people who have died that have not accepted Jesus Christ as saviour. Those that are alive could mean the people who have accepted Christ but are not yet with Him for whatever reason. I don't understand it fully but it seems to be referring to spiritual things and not literal things.
1st Thess 413 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. those that are asleep are not the dead that have not accept Jesus those that are aslepp are saved, and those that are alive are actually living breathing people.
QUOTE
those that are asleep are not the dead that have not accept Jesus those that are aslepp are saved, and those that are alive are actually living breathing people.
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
those that are asleep are not the dead that have not accept Jesus those that are aslepp are saved, and those that are alive are actually living breathing people.
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
QUOTE (For Life @ Feb 28 2009, 02:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70048
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
Right, those who are "asleep" in Christ Jesus are dead (physically, flesh death), but not spiritually. Because scripture say these...Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:II Corinthians 5:6 - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:II Corinthians 5:8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.Although those who aren't saved and died still goes back to the Father who gave it. But aren't in Christ.
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
Right, those who are "asleep" in Christ Jesus are dead (physically, flesh death), but not spiritually. Because scripture say these...Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:II Corinthians 5:6 - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:II Corinthians 5:8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.Although those who aren't saved and died still goes back to the Father who gave it. But aren't in Christ.
QUOTE (For Life @ Feb 28 2009, 12:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=70048
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
For Life Tom has given an excellent explanation of this verse here http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?showtopic=10467
I must be misunderstanding 1 Thess. 4:13. I thought it was saying that those that have fallen asleep without Jesus Christ have no hope. Now I see that it is saying don't be sad for the dead, like you would be sad for the ones with no hope.
For Life Tom has given an excellent explanation of this verse here http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?showtopic=10467
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