No Redemption for David?

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Wrangler

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In my Devotional Reading yesterday in 1 Chronicles, I came upon a passage that always disturbed me. It was when God, through the prophet Nathan, told David he will not be the one to build his temple since he has so much blood on his hands; that he was a man of war but the one who will build the temple of God will be a man of peace. This has to be looked at from the perspective of all the blood that is on David's hands (except 1) was with the LORD being with him.

Over and over again we are told the LORD was with David in all he did. Now, this man, after God's own heart is unfit to build a temple? This man whose descendants will rule without end, a most extraordinary covenant, is too blemished to be redeemed sufficiently to build a temple for God?! Does this also bother you? How does this make sense?
 
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APAK

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@Wrangler ...An interesting topic..

Beside David being known to be a man of war, with 'blood on his hands,' this did not cause him blemish or sin in God's eyes. Yes, this definitively is one factor why God decided to allow his son to built the 1st Temple and not David, his father. The Temple would not be associated with David's conquests in war. It is for a Temple of peace and salvation.

The major factor though IMO is David's incorrect concept and attitude to why and what is the purpose of a Temple of God. David has it all wrong.

He mentioned that he lived in a house of cedar with a strong roof, and maybe other comments not recorded in scripture. He said that the mobile tabernacle had only curtains. David did not recognize that the Temple served man and for man. God did not need a dwelling place at all.

The very notion that David believed in building a Temple at least as strong and secure as his own with a strong roof is not what God is all about. He does not need to have roof shelter from the elements. He does not need a roof. David forgot who his creator is and desires. God requires this Temple for man as a focus point of worship for him, only. It was to aid man's progression to know God and later to know him through his Son.

Ironically today, many still build huge solid and heavily roofed structures for God with high spiral steeples. Many still have it all wrong in their ill-founded purpose for worshipping God, as did David.

All in all, David remained in good books with his Creator. God's rebuke of David was not of sin, it was what God desired for his restoration plan and David was not in this part.

APAK
 
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Mungo

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In my Devotional Reading yesterday in 1 Chronicles, I came upon a passage that always disturbed me. It was when God, through the prophet Nathan, told David he will not be the one to build his temple since he has so much blood on his hands; that he was a man of war but the one who will build the temple of God will be a man of peace. This has to be looked at from the perspective of all the blood that is on David's hands (except 1) was with the LORD being with him.

Over and over again we are told the LORD was with David in all he did. Now, this man, after God's own heart is unfit to build a temple? This man whose descendants will rule without end, a most extraordinary covenant, is too blemished to be redeemed sufficiently to build a temple for God?! Does this also bother you? How does this make sense?

It supports the Catholic belief that there are two punishments for our sins:
1. Eternal punishment of hell
2. Temporal punishment (limited in time)

The eternal punishment for sins is remitted through forgiveness of sins. In David's case this would be 2Sam 12:13.
The temporal punishment does seem harsh but he was given lot.
Then take the example of Moses who was loved by God and obedient to God. One act of disobedience and he was forbidden to enter the Promised Land
 
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Robert Gwin

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In my Devotional Reading yesterday in 1 Chronicles, I came upon a passage that always disturbed me. It was when God, through the prophet Nathan, told David he will not be the one to build his temple since he has so much blood on his hands; that he was a man of war but the one who will build the temple of God will be a man of peace. This has to be looked at from the perspective of all the blood that is on David's hands (except 1) was with the LORD being with him.

Over and over again we are told the LORD was with David in all he did. Now, this man, after God's own heart is unfit to build a temple? This man whose descendants will rule without end, a most extraordinary covenant, is too blemished to be redeemed sufficiently to build a temple for God?! Does this also bother you? How does this make sense?

The Bible indicates David was very dear to Jehovah's heart. He will be there among God's people in the resurrection sir, no doubt in my mind. And this can be very encouraging to us sinners. Some of us may feel unworthy, but have never done the evils that David did. We can be forgiven, as long as like David, we are truly repentant
 

Wrangler

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Some of us may feel unworthy, but have never done the evils that David did.

You misunderstand me. The text makes it clear David was not allowed to build the temple for reasons having nothing to do with David's evil. The prohibition was based on David acting according to the Will of God, when God "was with him" in conquering all the lands that threatened Israel.

It would be a simple matter if David was not honored because he was bad. But the conversation reaches a much more adult level, much more nuanced in grasping he was not honored DESPITE "God being with him" in all that he did for which the prohibition is made.

Jack Nicolson, Col. Nathan R. Jessep, comes to mind on the stand giving testimony in A Few Good Men, when he says he's the guy you don't talk about at cocktail parties but in the end, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, as hideous and grotesque as I seem to you. That's King David to God. The Warrior who does the dirty work, the ugly work required to achieve what is necessary.

But at the cocktail party, who gets to build the temple, is the guy with clean hands, who did not have the burden - and divine support - to get his hands clean.
 

DPMartin

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In my Devotional Reading yesterday in 1 Chronicles, I came upon a passage that always disturbed me. It was when God, through the prophet Nathan, told David he will not be the one to build his temple since he has so much blood on his hands; that he was a man of war but the one who will build the temple of God will be a man of peace. This has to be looked at from the perspective of all the blood that is on David's hands (except 1) was with the LORD being with him.

Over and over again we are told the LORD was with David in all he did. Now, this man, after God's own heart is unfit to build a temple? This man whose descendants will rule without end, a most extraordinary covenant, is too blemished to be redeemed sufficiently to build a temple for God?! Does this also bother you? How does this make sense?

what you don't get is David understood he was at the Lord's service. hence He want David to do this but not that. in this case for reason of the blood on his hands. but that doesn't color David's faithful service to the Lord his God at all. God also promised the Messiah to be through David's sons.
 

Robert Gwin

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You misunderstand me. The text makes it clear David was not allowed to build the temple for reasons having nothing to do with David's evil. The prohibition was based on David acting according to the Will of God, when God "was with him" in conquering all the lands that threatened Israel.

It would be a simple matter if David was not honored because he was bad. But the conversation reaches a much more adult level, much more nuanced in grasping he was not honored DESPITE "God being with him" in all that he did for which the prohibition is made.

Jack Nicolson, Col. Nathan R. Jessep, comes to mind on the stand giving testimony in A Few Good Men, when he says he's the guy you don't talk about at cocktail parties but in the end, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, as hideous and grotesque as I seem to you. That's King David to God. The Warrior who does the dirty work, the ugly work required to achieve what is necessary.

But at the cocktail party, who gets to build the temple, is the guy with clean hands, who did not have the burden - and divine support - to get his hands clean.

Yes sir I am very sorry, I did for a fact misunderstand you. Yes I fully understand your comment, the main reason is that after all the corruption was rooted out of the land, which David proved exemplary in, the promised land flowing with milk and honey was to be peaceful for it's inhabitants. David was a gallant man of war who exercised Jehovah's justice on the nations, and it was not that David’s warfare was wrong. But Jehovah’s typical kingdom was essentially of a peaceful nature and objective; its wars were to clean out wickedness and those opposing Jehovah’s sovereignty, to extend Israel’s dominion to the boundaries that God had outlined, and to establish righteousness and peace. These objectives the wars of David accomplished for Israel. Solomon’s rule was essentially a reign of peace, so he was given the privilege of building Jehovah's temple.

Sorry I misunderstood your post sir, and hope this helps you to understand why Jehovah did not pick righteous David to build the temple.
 
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Wrangler

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Sorry I misunderstood your post sir,

No problem at all, my friend.

hope this helps you to understand why Jehovah did not pick righteous David to build the temple.

Not really. Maybe it's God's way of keeping us humble, that we do not earn his grace, not even King David. Certainly, David deserved to build the temple more than anyone but God does not give us what we deserve but better than we deserve, right?
 

Robert Gwin

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No problem at all, my friend.



Not really. Maybe it's God's way of keeping us humble, that we do not earn his grace, not even King David. Certainly, David deserved to build the temple more than anyone but God does not give us what we deserve but better than we deserve, right?

Every servant of God has trials and tribulations. Yes David was extremely faithful, and accomplished so much in Jehovah's service, and in so many cases being deserving does not always render the position we desire among God's people. Look at how deserving all of the faithful apostles were, yet every one of them were baptized in Jesus' death. The thing is in service to Jehovah, now is not the reward, sure we get privileges, as David got so very many, but the real reward will be after the Kingdom comes sir. Does that make any sense to you?

I can even relate to it on a personal level. For the last 7 years I have been disfellowshipped for apostasy, yet the elders have not been successful in actually getting me to leave. We cannot see behind the scenes sir, look at what happened to one of the most faithful people who ever lived, Job. Tests of our faith never come from Jehovah, but He doesn't prevent them from happening, all of us have some kind of thorn in the flesh. What does He give us? The power beyond what is normal to endure, and guarantees us that we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear. If one is not being tried, he might want to consider if he is really serving in the way God desires. Hope that helps Wrangler.