No scripture supports the Rapture

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buddyt

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Id like to hear what scriptures those who believe in a Rapture use to support their beliefs.

I would like to say my supporting scripture for the Rapture being False Teaching comes from Ezekiel 13:20-21 For those who understand Gods word you know that this chapter in this book is telling you how unhappy God is with False Teaching. Some of the things being taught include this False belief of Jesus sweeping down to fly you away from the end events.

So please tell me what it is that makes one believe the teachings of man. And have no re guard at all for what our Father has written. I have asked the question many times of Ezekiel chapter 13 in particular these verses . I might say I have never got an explanation.
 

Job

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So please tell me what it is that makes one believe the teachings of man.
I guess you could call Paul a man.

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

j
 

101G

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Id like to hear what scriptures those who believe in a Rapture use to support their beliefs.

I would like to say my supporting scripture for the Rapture being False Teaching comes from Ezekiel 13:20-21 For those who understand Gods word you know that this chapter in this book is telling you how unhappy God is with False Teaching. Some of the things being taught include this False belief of Jesus sweeping down to fly you away from the end events.

So please tell me what it is that makes one believe the teachings of man. And have no re guard at all for what our Father has written. I have asked the question many times of Ezekiel chapter 13 in particular these verses . I might say I have never got an explanation.
GINOLJC, to all, buddyt, I will give you my belief and my understanding of what you calls a rapture. I'm a mid=wrath believer. and I based that on the word of God. scripture, Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only". Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be". one can read the rest of the chapter to get a general understanding. but just for the purpose of this discussion. I will concentrate on the two verse above. #1. the Lord Jesus cannot lie. he said that the coming of the Son of man as the days of Noe/Noah were. the question then is what happen in the days of Noah?. A. Judgment came. B. the means of God wrath was with the flood. now here is why I a mid wrath believer. the instrument of wrath (the flood) was the same instrument that save the 8 souls that was in the ark. they was SAVE out of wrath. this was done two fold. it carried the wicked away, and "RAISED" or lifted up or G726 ἁρπάζω harpazo (har-pa'-zō) the ark above the wrath that destroyed the wicked below. I believe the bible gives us the picture of this same mid wrath that is to come by fire. the righteous will be delivered by fire. the biblical example, the three Hebrew boys, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. better known as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, if one read the record, God did not deliver them before the fire, not after, but was in the fire with them. during the wrath they was delivered. no hurt was done to them. and they came out unhurt. the same instrument at was used for their destruction was their deliverance. so I believe in a MID-WRATH deliverance. when the Lord return, he will come all the way down to earth and his foot will split the mount of Olives into. and in his wrath he will deliver the righteous, and destroy the wicked. as so was the day of Noah, so likewise.
 

DPMartin

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I guess you could call Paul a man.

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

j


that's pretty much says it, its probably the theology thing that throws so many, the word rapture isn't found in the NT at least in the KJV so the contest begins. like trinity, rapture is the name of a theology not necessarily scriptural in its details. this is done to take away the need to read for one's self. and its also effective in getting many people to read into scripture the meaning of something in theology that isn't really what scripture says. I had to go through that deprograming also. many value the retention of followers more than the Truth of God, especially church authorities. in Israeli history that was SOP to value the holding of power in the world more then the Lord their God.

also everybody seems to think they can anticipate how and when this will happen, and its been said by some wiser then I and any of these that prophecy really isn't understood until after it is fulfilled. its for us to know that such and such in scripture is truly of God when it comes to pass. when Jesus was born, no one who was supposed to know, knew heads or tails when asked by king Herod about it.
 

Job

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and its also effective in getting many people to read into scripture the meaning of something in theology that isn't really what scripture says. I had to go through that deprograming also.
Absolutely. I run into that all the time. It's funny because pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib all use the same scriptures to defend their stance. I've learned to stay away from those debates.....unless I'm bored.
 

buddyt

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Job
I'm sorry to say I don't agree with your interpretation of 1Thessalonians 4

I read from verse 13 this verse starts the Subject. The Subject being where the dead are. That's the discussion through these 6 verses 13-18. verse. He does explain Christ return at the Last Trump as written in the book of Revelation. He then tell us to comfort one another as to where the dead are.

These verses read as simple as the ABCs there written with. If you read with understanding.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 There's no mystery here just as it is written in the book of Revelation at the Last Trump the 7th Trump the Trump of God. Jesus will return.



101G

I see nothing in these verses that says Rapture. What I see is Jesus telling us even he doesn't know the hour of his return. Simple simple simple. He explains in verse 37 it will be as it was in the days of Noah. How was it in those days ? The fallen Angels were giving and taking. Yes they will return with Satan and will be in that same role.



I have reply's from 3 here and not one word to explain away Gods word as written in the book of Ezekiel. It's muck easier to listen to mans teachings than to understand God written word. This Book Chapter and Verses are never addressed. At least not by those who follow mans teachings and not Gods word.
 

Job

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I have reply's from 3 here and not one word to explain away Gods word as written in the book of Ezekiel.
Why not give your interpretation of Ezekiel? Instead of telling us we're wrong, show us.
 

Job

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Some of the things being taught include this False belief of Jesus sweeping down to fly you away from the end events.
You're right, there's nothing in the Word of God that states that. Those passages from Thessalonians and Corinthians don't even say that.

Jesus swooping down to gather His children and then flying them away from danger. The most ridiculous thing I've read today. You're so right about people reading with understanding. Anyone can see those passages from Thessalonians and Corinthians come nowhere close to saying that. I guess people make up for their lack of understanding by just making stuff up. Don't know what it means, no problem, just make something up and find a verse that seems to support it.

These verses read as simple as the ABCs there written with. If you read with understanding.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

Good post.
l
 
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DPMartin

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Absolutely. I run into that all the time. It's funny because pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib all use the same scriptures to defend their stance. I've learned to stay away from those debates.....unless I'm bored.


well many denominations permit the teaching of bogus theology so many Christians haven't got a clue.

is far as the same old same old, your right most sites have the same responses to the same subjects, everybody wants things to be what is good in there own judgment, and when it comes to something they see that you can't prove them wrong or incorrect, they stand on their views like its some kind of righteousness.

in western culture one might have the right to their own views on things, but in the Kingdom of God Jesus Christ the Word of God is correct, and everything else either agrees and remains in the Kingdom or is contrary and is denied entry. one can be incorrect about what they have been believing, but acknowledging that one is incorrect and Jesus is correct, is as correct or as righteous as we can get.
 
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bbyrd009

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:) nice imo
Don't know what it means, no problem, just make something up and find a verse that seems to support it.
i'm not sure that that is entirely fair in that particular case, as much of Scripture expresses a state of heaven on earth in what would logically be assumed to be both collective (happening simultaneously to everyone then alive) and future, intimating some future event, when of course changing one's mind is the future event from a spiritual perspective.
 

keras

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So please tell me what it is that makes one believe the teachings of man. And have no re guard at all for what our Father has written. I have asked the question many times of Ezekiel chapter 13 in particular these verses . I might say I have never got an explanation.
I have carefully re-read all of Ezekiel 13:1-23
It is an indictment on false prophets and teachers, who lead the people astray. The Lord says: I shall rescue My people from their clutches and by that, you will know that I am the Lord. Verse 23.
This rescue refers to the protection promised to all who stand firm in their Christian faith during the soon to happen; terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Ezekiel prophesies many times how the Lord's people will know Him thru His deeds. Ezekiel 37:13, Ezekiel 38:23, + This proves it all happens before Jesus physically Returns for His Millennium reign.

As to why people prefer to believe the teachings of man, this is just as Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:4-6. The false idea of a rapture removal to heaven, is grasped by many who prefer to not face the truth of trials and testing to come. Rev 13:9-10
 
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ScottA

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Id like to hear what scriptures those who believe in a Rapture use to support their beliefs.

I would like to say my supporting scripture for the Rapture being False Teaching comes from Ezekiel 13:20-21 For those who understand Gods word you know that this chapter in this book is telling you how unhappy God is with False Teaching. Some of the things being taught include this False belief of Jesus sweeping down to fly you away from the end events.

So please tell me what it is that makes one believe the teachings of man. And have no re guard at all for what our Father has written. I have asked the question many times of Ezekiel chapter 13 in particular these verses . I might say I have never got an explanation.
I guess you could call Paul a man.

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
j
This is a Yes - but No, issue: Is there a rapture? Yes. Does it occur as a mass event at some future date? No.

The rapturous experience described in scripture is accurate enough...it is just the timing that is confused. Indeed the answer is given in the above verses, as the time of falling "asleep", which is the death of the flesh. Paul also clarifies to say that it is NOT a mass event, but "each in his own order" (in his own time).
 

Job

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The false idea of a rapture removal to heaven, is grasped by many who prefer to not face the truth of trials and testing to come. Rev 13:9-10
Would you mind giving us your interpretation of these 2 passages?

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 

ScottA

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Actually it occurs just prior to Christs return. It is a mass event because Christ only returns once.
Again, yes, but no.

It is correct that it is a one time mass event, but only from the eternal perspective. But from our worldly perspective, it is as Paul indicated: "each in his own order" (each in his own time).
 
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Job

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But from our worldly perspective, it is as Paul indicated: "each in his own order" (each in his own time).
How does "his own order" become "his own time"?

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
o
 

ScottA

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How does "his own order" become "his own time"?

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
o
Just as you have quoted it: "as in Adam" all die - not all with Adam at once in a mass event, but "each in his own order"...throughout the course of time, as it is now evident.
 
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Job

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each in his own order
Each in his own order means firstfruits first. The dead in Christ are resurrected first. Then the living are caught up at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Each in his own order. Dead in Christ first, then the living in Christ second.