Above is Hammer' post.
Jesus says not to judge others, yet Trinity believers judge their nay sayers as non-believers.
Do you not see the irony of your comment?
blessings.
Non trins are not christians or Jesus' followers.
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Jesus says not to judge others, yet Trinity believers judge their nay sayers as non-believers.
Do you not see the irony of your comment?
blessings.
There is no irony.
The Bible is clear on the nature of the triune God. The logic required to subordinate Jesus as a non-deity (or quasi-deity) was rightly declared heretical long ago and for good reason because it opened the door to numerous other heresies, which are often cloaked in deliberate deception or vagueness. This is one thing the spectrum of Christianity agrees upon! As the Apostle Paul said, there are certainly other gospels floating out there, and are we not called to instruct against the error of those ways?
Titus 2:12-13
And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with wisdom, righteousness, and devotion to God, while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.
And, unfortunately, our age loves to cloak thoughtlessness and lack of reasoning behind the banner of being nonjudgmental. All one need do is sound super-spiritual enough.
If you are making an argument at all, be it here in the forums or even in a public forum with one person, you are making a judgment call on what you're espousing. I fully expect God to judge me for my understanding (or lack thereof) of the trinity. I don't claim to fully understand it or even be an expert on it, but Scripture is pretty clear in the status of Jesus. It also clearly states that Jesus was fully man and fully God, evident from verses like the one above. This really isn't an argument that there is much grey area on, other than small groups who come in and out of vogue as they attempt to redefine Jesus. I am not making this call or decision; the entire Christian Church universal has made this call or decision, very clearly based upon Biblical evidence.
To complete the context to the quotation of my post above, the individual to who I was responding maintained that everyone else had a personal opinion to which he effectively did not. This commentary comes even though he referred to what he doesn't care for in theology. His own opinion mediated by nothing, other than his own mind which is precisely what 2 Peter 1:20 spoke out against.
The Bible is clear on the nature of the triune God. The logic required to subordinate Jesus as a non-deity (or quasi-deity) was rightly declared heretical long ago and for good reason because it opened the door to numerous other heresies, which are often cloaked in deliberate deception or vagueness. This is one thing the spectrum of Christianity agrees upon! As the Apostle Paul said, there are certainly other gospels floating out there, and are we not called to instruct against the error of those ways?
Titus 2:12-13
And we are instructed to turn from godless living and sinful pleasures. We should live in this evil world with wisdom, righteousness, and devotion to God, while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.
And, unfortunately, our age loves to cloak thoughtlessness and lack of reasoning behind the banner of being nonjudgmental. All one need do is sound super-spiritual enough.
If you are making an argument at all, be it here in the forums or even in a public forum with one person, you are making a judgment call on what you're espousing. I fully expect God to judge me for my understanding (or lack thereof) of the trinity. I don't claim to fully understand it or even be an expert on it, but Scripture is pretty clear in the status of Jesus. It also clearly states that Jesus was fully man and fully God, evident from verses like the one above. This really isn't an argument that there is much grey area on, other than small groups who come in and out of vogue as they attempt to redefine Jesus. I am not making this call or decision; the entire Christian Church universal has made this call or decision, very clearly based upon Biblical evidence.
To complete the context to the quotation of my post above, the individual to who I was responding maintained that everyone else had a personal opinion to which he effectively did not. This commentary comes even though he referred to what he doesn't care for in theology. His own opinion mediated by nothing, other than his own mind which is precisely what 2 Peter 1:20 spoke out against.
Where does Jesus say you have to believe in the trinity or Jesus is God to be saved?
BTW, Jesus says He is Son of God and Savior of the world clearly and I believe it.
I base my faith according what Jesus says. So I am Jesus' follower.
And you say that elsewhere as well. I do not discount your sincerity of belief, but you also have spent considerable time explaining that certain passages are not to be heeded because of a very narrow and literal interpretation on your part as to what the words of Jesus are. These seem to be generally quite limited to the gospels, while Christianity clearly maintains that the entire Bible is, versus what we pick and choose.
What you're doing is what I call cafeteria Christianity. It's picking and choosing what one likes and what makes one feel good. This is not Christianity, it's something else.
I am picking what Jesus says. Afterall Christians are Christ' followers.
There are too many Christians using the scriptures to make their own doctrines. In order to make my faith simple, I focus on what Jesus says.
One excellent example is ASAS doctrine.
And RCC is doing the same thing. They base their doctrines without what Jesus says.
Man-made doctrines make simple Christianity complicated which is a grave sin.
blessings.
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Can anyone fully understand the mystery of the trinity? Is it possible to describe the trinity without confessing some ancient heresy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
Joyful, may I ask you, then, what you think these gospel verses mean?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Or what Jesus meant when He said to Philip:
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Philip was confused by Jesus' earlier statement:
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
But was Thomas confused?
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, Joyful.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Or what Jesus meant when He said to Philip:
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Philip was confused by Jesus' earlier statement:
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
But was Thomas confused?
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, Joyful.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
Seem to me when I hear most Holy trinity belief they are really oneness.
When I hear about oneness belief they seem to believe three in one.
There is some trinity that believe there are three separate individual being not just one.
mystery....
When I hear about oneness belief they seem to believe three in one.
There is some trinity that believe there are three separate individual being not just one.
mystery....
to be honest, I don't know this verse. It is just out of context with Jesus' own ward. Jesus never indicated He is God Himself. He consistently said He is Son of God over and over.
Or what Jesus meant when He said to Philip:
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?[/QUOTE]
Because Jesus has been saying He was sent by His Father. So if we listen to Him we know God the Father because Jesus is Messenger or Representative of the Father.
[/quote]
It seems to me Thomas was addressing both God and the Lord, Jesus.
blessings.
No where in the Bible says Father, the Son and the HS make one God. And Bible says it clear: God is one. God is the Father, Jesus is His right hand, our Lord and Savior.
those are all gave to Jesus by His Father. God is the source of everything, including the salvation.
Jesus says He cannot do anything on His own. He says He does the will of His Father, His God.
Salvation is not mystery, brother. Our own doctrines make it mystery.
BTW, Jesus also says His followers are His brothers and sisters. And His God is our God.
Jesus is our sinless Brother and now sitting in right hand of almighty God because He accomplished God's mission to died for our sins.
Jesus is our sinless Brother and now sitting in right hand of almighty God because He accomplished God's mission to died for our sins.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Seem to me when I read this it is saying that there are two different beings.
One is the Word which has a beginning.
I always thought it has been said "God has no beginning."
Also Rev. 19 mention the Word riding on a white horse and we know that is Jesus.
verse 2 says the same was in the beginning with God = the same here is the Word
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Seem to me when I read this it is saying that there are two different beings.
One is the Word which has a beginning.
I always thought it has been said "God has no beginning."
Also Rev. 19 mention the Word riding on a white horse and we know that is Jesus.
verse 2 says the same was in the beginning with God = the same here is the Word
It says the Word was God.Bible_Gazer said:
That seems pretty clear.
It also says that He made everything that is made, and that without Him nothing was made.
There are too many verses that prove that Jesus is God.Joyful said:
And we know that the Bible does not contradict itself.
I've always wondered what was the difference between "Trinity" and "Oneness" myself.Bible_Gazer said:
But then, it is my contention that a man trying to understand the essential character of God would be comparable to my little dog trying to learn about quantum physics.
I mean, he's an awful smart little guy, and all....but....
Some verses are not clear. that's why I use clear statements. You have only a few verses to support your claim.
I will bring up the verses that you may have been disregarding or ignoring.
blessings.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
We and Angels can be called Gods. john 10:34The Barrd said:
Moses was made a god before Pharaoh Ex 7:1
Jesus is a God, but not the almighty. Isa. Isa. 9:6 Heb.1:8-9
Jesus has a savior that he prayed to. Hebrews 5:7
Word is a God
The same was in he beginning with God
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