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Featured Not a sinner.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    A Christian should NEVER think of themselves as a 'sinner".

    "as a person thinks in their Heart, so are they"...

    So, if you are born again, you are not a "sinner,... = you are FOREVER a Child of God. You are THE Bride of Christ. You are a "Lively Stone"... You are a "Redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb"... You are a "Child of the Light... You are a "SAINT".... You are a "Brethren"....You are a "Heir of God"... You are a "Joint Heir with Christ"....You are "The Temple of the Holy Spirit"..... "Jesus has called you FRIEND".

    So why are you no longer a "sinner" if you are Born again? ??

    Well this Title...."sinner" and "sin", is a former product of the Law's ability to define an unbeliever as those words, as that Title.. See, The Law has an authority, and it has a dominion... So, an unbeliever is UNDER the dominion and authority of "the Law", so, the Law has a right to define an unbeliever as a "sinner, and their trangression, their iniquity , as "sin".

    Jesus has removed the "curse of the Law".. from the Born again. This means that IF you are truly born again you are no longer under the "dominion of the Law".. This mean that the Law has no more RIGHT to label you, or define you, as anything... And why is that? ??

    = "Christ has REDEEMED the born again, from the CURSE of the Law".
    = The born again are "not under the law, but UNDER GRACE".
    = Jesus said, "all POWER is given to me, In Heaven and on EARTH"
    = "As JESUS IS.....so ARE ... the born again...IN THIS WORLD">..

    If you are Born Again, then you are now under a new dominion... you are "under GRACE".
    The Grace of God now has Dominion and final authority over you...

    Saint, in the "time of the gentiles" there are 2 dominions as work...
    1.) The Law
    2.) Grace.
    So, every person breathing, is BORN or BORN AGAIN UNDER one of those dominions... And each has the right of authority to DECLARE YOU TO BE....

    The born again are under the Dominion of GRACE.
    Grace removes the title 'sinner" from you, BECAUSE it has replaced the Law's dominion over you.
    This is why you are no longer to be considered as a "sinner".
    And this is why what use to be referred to as "sin", "under the Law", is now referred to by Paul as "works of the Flesh", regarding the Born Again.
    Notice this verse...Galatians 5:13 Paul Speaking... "Use not your Freedom in Christ to commit a work of the flesh".... Here Paul is talking only to the Born again, who are not "under the Law".

    Notice this verse..."
    Galatians 5:19-21

    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings..

    Notice that these are all the same DEEDS or Behavior, that were previously defined as SIN when you were an unbeliever...... But notice that when Paul is NOW teaching the Born again, in Galatians, who are not "under the Law", but "under GRACE", he does not define the same as "sin"... He defines these works according to the Dominion of Grace, as "works of the flesh".

    So, IF you are born again ... do not see yourself as a "sinner".. Do not define yourself as a "saved sinner". Do not accept being labeled as this by Teachers who are in Theological error, and are Legalists / Heretics.

    Define yourself..= SEE YOURSELF ONLY as GOD sees you, as defined by The dominion of GRACE..

    = You are a Born Again : SAINT.

    This is your Heavenly ID.. This is your ETERNAL "new creation IN CHRIST" Status and TITLE.
    -
    -
    When we SEE OURSELVES as "the righteousness of God, IN CHRIST" then we are mentally aligning ourselves with God's ETERNAL perspective.
    When we do this, we lose our self condemnation, and begin to accept that the blood of Jesus has made us accepted by God and keeps us there, always, and then we find that we understand WHY we have eternal "peace with God".

    "not of works, lest any person will boast" and try to keep themselves saved.

    When we learn to BELIEVE that "Jesus who saved us, keeps us saved" then we are walking in FAITH....but not until.
    -
    A lot of religious people read this in the NT, "i am chief of sinners"...and never read the end of that commentary that Paul is teaching. They never finish it all the way through. They stop there, and live there = with their repenting and confessing lifestyle.

    Imagine the misunderstanding a hyper religious person has, a carnal believer has, when they misread the verse like this....."I Paul, am continuing to be a dirty rotten sinner, the Chief".

    That is how a hyper religious person, a carnal bible rejector misunderstands that verse.... They actually think the Apostle who wrote most of the NT is living in sin....

    = YIKES>.

    So, what you do is read the end of Paul's commentary, that is explaining how he stopped trying to fight his carnal nature and started to exist completely under the dominion of Grace. "walking in the Spirit", "walking in THE Light", and once that became his MIND, he was no longer going back and forth, with a divided mind, that was causing him the pain and misery. This is why he says.....that he serves no longer his flesh, but now walks in the right MIND, and from that he teaches that he ALWAYS has Victory, thru Christ.
    No more sinning, no more crazy struggle, no more repenting....but ALWAYS has the VICTORY, he states.
    -
    Lets look at this verse.
    "if we say we have no SIN"...
    So, This means, that someone's sin has not been forgiven, because they STILL HAVE IT.
    This means that Christ has not paid for it yet.
    This is not talking about a born again believer, who has the blood atonement, applied.
    Here is a revelation for some of you Legalist who are trying to keep yourself saved.

    Q.) What sin did the blood of Jesus pay for ??

    A.) The ones you did before you were saved and the ones you committed after you were saved.

    Reader.....Do you think an Apostle is standing there with SIN?...... Really?

    You need to remeasure that idea.....

    So, what is wrong do you think?
    Well, its what you believe., and what you believe is what you were taught, and whoever taught you has no idea what they are doing. Ok?
    Believe it, that Apostle is not standing there with UNFORGIVEN SIN needing to be confessed, while he's talking to people about having sin.

    But he IS doing this.... He's talking to a group of unbelievers. And its like this.....
    Lets say im talking to a group of unbelievers....in a room. And a couple of them are Scientologists (Tom Cruise) who say that "sin" is not real......and a couple of the listeners are followers of Mary Baker Eddy, who taught that sin is an illusion.
    So, i just said to the room...... "listen, sin is what is going to keep you out of heaven after you die, so, this is why Christ came.........etc.

    4 people stand up.......... 2 scientologists and 2 of the Baker boys........and i say....OK WHAT? And they say......we dont have sin because we dont believe in sin...
    I am now talking to them, and i say......."Listen if we say we have no sin we make Jesus a liar".
    Now, did you notice that i said....."WE" ??
    But i dont have the sin...they have it...So, am i including myself with them as a SINNER? = NOPE.
    No im not....i am using a technique that is understood as corporally speaking, that speaks to the hearer, yet not about myself, when i say "we".
    This is PREACHER speak. Pastors do this all the time when they are talking to a group.
    They talk about the group's issue, but they say..>"if WE".., yet they are not talking about themselves.

    And that is what is happening in the verse. And if you go to Hebrews 4, and 6, and read the Apostle to say...>"WE". "if WE sin willfully',= again the speaker is not speaking about himself, he is talking only about THEM.

    ------------

    And about your sin.... Are you born again? or only water baptized?
    If you are born again, then your SIN was removed from you when Christ became it on the Cross and died.
    And the reason you had it, was because the LAW that you were under, that had dominion over you, had the authority to declare you to be a sinner and your "iniquity", your carnal deeds >as sin.

    The Law is gone now, if you are born again....."you are no longer UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE".
    "Jesus has removed the curse of the Law".
    GRACE... now has dominion over you, and GRACE has redefined you with a new Heavenly ID...
    -
    = If you are born again...
    You are no longer deemed a sinner by God, you are now a "New CREATION IN CHRIST">... a SON of GOD.....a TEMPLE Of the Holy Spirit, a BRETHREN...a CHILD OF GOD.. THE BRIDE OF CHRIST...... a SAINT.

    So, that is how GOD now classifies you, for eternity.
    Get your MIND in line with God's perspective and walk no longer thinking you are what you are not.
    You are not a "sinner".....you are a Redeemed Child of God.
    -
    -
    Its only the blood of Jesus that "makes you Righteous".
    You can't do this for yourself. And after you are RIGHTEOUS, after you have "the gift of Righteousness" .....do you have it or not?

    If God gave you His righteousness, are you righteous or not?

    "well sure, im RIGHTEOUS< but im still a sinner".

    No you are NOT... You can't be BOTH.
    You are redeemed, and this excludes you from being what you WERE before you were "made the righteousness of God IN CHRIST"..

    Listen, the real you, is the "New Creation" in Christ..
    The old man, the former SINNER, who was under the law= is DEAD.
    You are not to see yourself as THAT anymore... and if you do, you will keep committing works of the flesh...(sinning to you)...and that is what you will keep doing when you do not recognize who you are now, "in Christ".

    See, many of you are defining yourself as what you were before God made you RIGHTEOUS with the Blood of JESUS.
    You are still defining yourself (believing wrong) as what you were before you were saved.
    Listen, You are not that now, you are the "New Creation"... So, bring your mind into alignment with who you are "in CHRIST".

    See yourself as GOD sees you now. = always
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  2. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    You have many good points @Behold . I would just ask one thing...were Gentiles EVER under the Jewish law? Didn't the Gentiles get included in being God's people through Grace?

    "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves," Romans 2:14

    "To those without the Law I became like one without the Law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the Law." 1 Corinthians 9:21


    Just wonder what you think of this as, the way I see it, we follow the Law of Christ that is etched on the lining of our hearts...Love God Love Others...the rest of the law hangs..." So if we fulfill the two Christ gave us, will not the others also be followed and kept as well?

    @CharismaticLady

    In Him,
    Nancy
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  3. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    That does not say people will be damned. It says Jesus isn't going to pay for such sins.
     
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  4. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Hey Nancy,

    When i say "the law", im of course speaking of the OLD TESTAMENT, which was given to the Jews.
    However, This "law" is in effect regarding any unbeliever.
    Its universal, similar to the spiritual law of "sowing and reaping".

    The law of Grace, would be the Salvation of God, becoming dominion over a person. = born again.
    "you are not under the law, you are under GRACE".
    "being under", means to be under the control, under the dominion.

    The Bible from cover to cover, is a book of progressive revelation, whereby God is revealing how He is changing things, along the way.
    With Adam and Eve, there was no Law, so, "where there is no law there is no transgression".

    Cain, was the first heretic. The first Legalist. And Jude explains what he did wrong as "the error of Cain". And on forums like this one, on all Christian forums, the majority are committing the "error of Cain"...And what is that? They are trying to be accepted by God, by self effort. This is Legalism. This is CAIN taking a bag of crops that he grew.... to God.... and saying....>"see my works, (pride) accept me"....and God said GET OUT NOW!!!!! Later He said it again...."Depart from me i never KNEW YOU"..= you have no BLOOD OF JESUS, so GET OUT, HELL IS CREATED FOR YOU and the DEVIL.
    Able, brought "the blood of another", and God says....>ENTER IN "SON"..
    In our case, Jesus's Blood brings us in to Gods family, and keeps us there, for eternity.
    Thank you Jesus !

    The "error of Cain", the self saving Legalist who thinks they can lose their salvation rejects Grace, defies the Cross, and they sounds like this.. "umm, sure, im saved, but now i have to ....i have to.....i have to...keep, keep, do, endure, abide,...self, self, self, EFFORT".. so, that is the "error of Cain"... Its a person trying to get God's acceptance or keep it, beyond the Blood of Jesus. = by SELF EFFORT.

    God changed the rules after the Garden. And here comes Moses and the Law.
    Then, God changed the rules again.."progressive revelation", and Jesus was seen dying on the Cross.
    So, we are now, as you know, in the "time of the Gentiles"..... some call this a "season", but its really just God doing what He said He would do, according to the word of prophecy, Bible, and the time came for Jesus to show up.
    When that Cross was raised, the "time of the gentiles started", and not one of the 12 Apostles knew it.
    Jesus instead called someone named Saul to become the "time of the Gentiles' Gentile apostle, and Jesus personally took Paul and taught him what we now understand as "church doctrine", "justification by faith"...>"the GOSPEL", and The Grace of God.

    And the wonder of God's Grace is that God took a "chief of sinners", a real sinner, who was helping murder Christians, and took this MAN, this "chief of sinners" and through Him, God showed us all that it does not matter how bad we are, or how bad we were, .. the Grace of God is an overpayment for the sin of the world and is well able to make us all, (Paul included) a trophy of God's amazing Grace.
    PAUL....A "consenting" murderer of Christians, a "chief of sinners", wrote all the doctrines for the church and most of the NT.
    God has no issue with sinners, He loves us so much that He replaced our "old sinning self" with His brand new "In Christ" Born again Creation.
    = WE the born again.

    So, from the moment that Cross was raised, until the Grt Trib Starts, we are in a "time" where God is doing something different with humanity then he did with them when Moses was living, and its different then what God is going to do when He takes up again His dealing with the Jews. in Dan's 70th week.

    And yes, Its LOVE that fulfills all the commandments......
    Commandments are just words. Its LOVE that fulfills the words.
    If we love God, we wont live a life that would be an insult or a heartbreak to Him......because we love Him and dont want God to feel harmed by what we do. Salvation as the Grace of God gives us the power to stop sinning and live a perfected discipleship, once we understand how to do it.
    =Right believing.
    Also, when we "love our neighbors as ourselves", and everyone in the world is a "Neighbor", we would not offend them, or harm them, because we let Love rule, and love doth no harm to anyone.
     
  5. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Very good.

    Lets briefly look at that set of verses.
    You have the epistle to the HEBREWS....So, thats a big clue that this is not "to the saints in Christ, in Corinith".
    See, when we want to know if an epistle is directed to the Body of Christ then notice how it is addressed..
    This one is sent to , not the body of Christ, but to HEBREWS.
    I teach that Paul wrote this epistle, because of the later chapters becoming so "Pauline Theology", and none of the other apostles talked about Grace so figuratively, as Paul did. Especially starting with Chapters 8 and on, its certainly Paul...as no one describes the Blood Atonement the way Paul talks about it, as you find there, and in all His epistles when he gets going.
    He gets excited when he talks about the BLOOD OF JESUS, and so should anyone who understands what this Precious Blood has accomplished for them..

    Here is another way you can know that Paul wrote Hebrews, and that Chapters 4,6,10 where all the Heretics live and try to use those famous verses as there "go to" to try to damn all the born again in to Hell.......just read the Last 10 verses in Acts 28.
    Its Paul again talking to Hebrews (Jews) and they are again rejecting their Messiah as they do in Hebrews 10:26
    ITs like reading the same verses, but just slightly condensed in Acts 28.
    But its the same deal. Its Paul, its Hebrews, and they are spitting on the Cross and rejecting their Messiah, and Paul is on FIRE.!!
    He was stoned to death once, and probably because He was doing this same to another Group of Hebrews and they killed Him.

    When you read Hebrews 10:26, and Paul is on the stump, he is shouting, he is angry..>He is hurting for these Christ Rejectors who wont LISTEN.
    "you are doing despite to the Spirit of Grace" !!!, "you are stomping on (treading underfoot) the Blood of Jesus"... "you are Crucifying Christ afresh".!!!!!! "You have tasted the signs of an Apostle", 2nd Corinthians 12:12... = Tasted the Heavenly gift"...!!, "If you reject your Messiah there is no other way you can be saved", = you are committing the unpardonable sin, = Christ Rejection...!!!!
    Paul is ON FIRE....>He is ROARING at these Hateful hate filled Christ Rejecting Jews (hebrews).
    And Paul finally gives up......and tells these Christ rejecting Hebrews...> my paraphrase......>"""ok then NO PROB......I'll take this Gospel of your Messiah to the GENTILES and they will HEAR IT"......Im DONE WITH YOU !!!
    And so, there is the Gentile apostle leaving the Hebrews for the last time..... Its the same thing in Acts 28, the last 10 verses.
    Its Paul.

    Ok, here we go..
    "if we sin willfully , there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin"..
    Ok, well, every born again person has sinned willfully at least once, so, if that ends your salvation, then there will be no born again Christians in Heaven... So, "sinning willfully", is not , backsliding, or deciding to watch "Game of Thrones" when you knew that a rape was going to happen, because you saw the previews last week, and you watched it KNOWINGLY, or willfully.
    This is no different then renting a Netflix or Redbox movie, and you know its "R"< and you know it has sex and more in it, and you do it willfully, then you feel guilty and work that little "confess and repent" trick, that as i have been explaining, is useless......Its means nothing, Reader.

    So, "willfully sinning" that sends you to hell then the lake of fire, is only to REJECT CHRIST and die.
    To "sin willfully" means that this SIN, this specific SIN, would eliminate the Cross from ever helping you, = would be to REJECT CHRIST.
    Its THAT Sin. Its THOSE HEBREWS doing it. And that sin is the unpardonable sin. See, there is no forgiveness for the sin of Rejecting Christ.
    Thousands of people who ended up in Hell today, just found out that God was not kidding about that CROSS.
    He's NOT. And now they know, and now there is nothing that can help them.
    = The Hebrews in Hebrews 10:26. Paul is preaching the Gospel to these unsaved Jews.
    And how do you know that he is not preaching the Gospel to group of born again Messianic Jews?
    Because Paul is a little too smart to be preaching the Gospel of "how to be saved" to a group of born again believers. = Messianic Jews.
    Thats pretty obvious, but its not obvious at all to a devil led heretic who wants to feel good in a carnal way by using a forum like this one to upset God's children.. by telling them that all those Hebrew verses are aimed at THEM, the Body of Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  6. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    How you do add and subtract and twist and turn trying to avoid a simple truth.

    2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    These passages do not say people will be damned. Rather it says there is no more sacrifice for sin for them. People will have to pay themselves, as Jesus said.

    Matthew 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    I tell you that anyone who continues to sin has not really been born again. He may think he has been -- and perhaps he has been born of water, but he has not been born of the Spirit. Such a person would not sin. You use words you do not understand. The person who is born of the Spirit can move like the wind. He is not tied to his physical body.

    John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


    Such a person also cannot sin. The Word has separated flesh, soul, spirit. Most people don't know what spirit is, what soul is, and so on. They are entangled with each other and confused until the Word separates them. That person enters the rest. He will not sin.

    Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    . . .
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
     
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  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Certainly and Jesus did forgive sins before he was crucified:

    "And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee." Matt 9:2

    If there is a need now after we have repented, may we not be forgiven again? If not why would John have written this?

    "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

    There may be no more sacrifice, but unless we have committed a sin unto death, we are not left without hope:
     
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  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP,
    Not so fast.
    1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
    once one is "BORN AGAIN" or from above, they are NEW BABES in Christ and must mature. I have never seen a new born babe "mistake free". we must "GROW" in Christ. 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

    and so in this time of Growth we're given .... Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"
    Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
    Ephesians 4:13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
    Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

    so we grow in Christ, no babe come out of it's mother womb walking, talking, eating and drinking on it's own. no.

    as we are under tutors and governors until ........ Galatians 4:1 "Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;"
    Galatians 4:2 "But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father."
    Galatians 4:3 "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:"
    Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"
    Galatians 4:5 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."
    Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
    Galatians 4:7 "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."

    PICJAG.
     
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I realize that I got here late; but something needs to be said here.

    Indwelling sin is a reality for every person on the face of the planet.

    In this sense, every last one of us is a "sinner".

    Jer 17:9, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    Mat 7:11, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

    1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    Luk 11:13, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    Jhn 2:24, But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
    Jhn 2:25, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

    1Ti 1:15, This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

    That being said, the practice of a born again believer is different than it was before.

    1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    And it is in this sense that we are not sinners any longer.

    Thus, I identify myself as a sinner who doesn't commit sin.

    1 John 1:8 is clear that indwelling sin is a reality for every believer.

    @Behold, I would say to you as you say to the scientologists in your analogy, "if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us"; for, like them, you deny indwelling sin as a reality.

    In this, I am saying that you have indwelling sin; and I also am not denying that I have indwelling sin: but affirming this reality.

    I will say one more thing: because someone might wonder how it can be that we all have indwelling sin while at the same time I am telling you that you do not have to commit sin.

    It is because sin is rendered dead within the sanctified believer (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8); and therefore it no longer has any say over his behaviour.

    That being said, I know that false doctrine often has more of an appeal and that in the last days men will not endure sound doctrine but will heap up for themselves teachers to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3). The repetition of sound doctrine can become tedious for the hearer and as the result they may gravitate towards something more spectacular.

    It remains what is written in 1 John 4:4-6 on this very subject:

    1Jo 4:4, Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
    1Jo 4:5, They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
    1Jo 4:6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

    It is therefore a choice of whether you will accept a doctrine that the apostle says that if you believe it, you are deceiving yourself, and the truth is not in you: or whether you will understand and keep the doctrine that indwelling sin is always a factor in our Christian life.

    One final note, and then I will finish here.

    Gal 5:16, This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Gal 5:17, For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    Gal 5:18, But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Rom 8:3, For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Rom 8:12, Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

    Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    Rom 8:14, For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    These passages of holy scripture indicate that the flesh is still a reality; and that the element of sin is relegated to the flesh.

    Therefore in our Christian walk, it is important that we deny the flesh what it wants and walk and behave according to the Spirit of the Lord who has come to dwell within us. These are conflicting factors within each and every one of us who are born again.

    It has been said that there are two dogs battling it out within our system: a white one and a black one. When the person who gave the analogy was asked which one normally won, he said wisely, "Whichever one I feed the most!"

    This is sound doctrine for what it's worth. I know that there are some who will follow @Behold and accept his doctrine over mine.

    I would simply suggest that your way of understanding which of us is right will rest in the fact of whether you are born again or not.

    So I would suggest praying the following prayer:

    Dear Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I understand that I am a sinner in need of forgiveness, and I come to You for that forgiveness. Won't you please come into my heart and be my Lord and Saviour? Please forgive me of all my sins and come and fill me with Your Holy Spirit. I understand that my sin is ever before me according to Psalms 51:3. I receive You as my Saviour and as my Lord. I confess that Jesus is the Son of God and I confess that Jesus is the Lord of everything and the Lord of my life. I repent of my sins and I will do my best to follow You all the days of my life. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

    If you prayed that, you are born again. Now read 1 John 4:5-6. You will find that you now have an unction from the holy one and that you know all things (1 John 2:20-21). You have an anointing that teaches you of all things and which will teach you to abide in Christ (1 John 2:27).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    True. Christians are saints. But they are also sinning saints, since no Christian is sinlessly perfect. Sinners are those who have not been redeemed. Saints are those who have been redeemed. But all saints are exhorted to refrain from sinning, since they can and do sin.
     
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  11. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Nancy....the text to love God and others is mostly seen as a replacement of the 10 C's when in fact it is a reiteration of them. The first four dealing with love to God, the remaining six dealing with love to man.
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    In all reality, @Enoch111, as sanctified believers we are sinners who live holy lives; I believe that you have it backwards.
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No I do not have it backwards. In God's eyes all His children are saints. But in fact all Christians are prone to sin. That does not mean that Christians cannot resist temptation. However it does means that while ideally Christians are to live holy lives, they are not immune to sin and temptation.

    And the Bible is very clear about this: IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN WE DECEIVE OURSELVES, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US (1 John 1:8). Therefore no Christian is sinlessly perfect, and those who claim to be so have already sinned, by deceiving themselves and also making God a liar.
     
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  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Enoch111,

    "sinless perfection" while it is a real doctrine that has been taught even on these boards, is also a misnomer that is applied to the doctrine of entire sanctification in order to create a straw man that is toppled by 1 John 1:8.

    In all reality, the doctrine of entire sanctification does not deny the reality of indwelling sin; and therefore it is not in violation of 1 John 1:8. It declares that sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

    The fact of indwelling sin is what is being spoken of in 1 John 1:8. 1 John 1:8 is not contradictory to 1 John 3:9 therefore but the latter verse can be taken literally; for it is written,

    2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

    Therefore, when 1 John 3:6 tells us that whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not; and when 1 John 2:17 tells us that whosoever does the will of God abideth for ever: we can believe in this walk of holiness that is being spoken of and can receive it as a promise.

    1 John 1:8, again, speaks of indwelling sin and it means that we are all sinners in the sense that sin dwells in each of us; however it is also true that we are not sinners in that if we are born of God we "do not" and "cannot" commit sin (1 John 3:9) and that those who abide in Christ "sin not" and that if we do the will of God we will "abide for ever".

    Think about the implications of these statements.

    Too often, when people read the scriptures they interpret them according to their own experience; when what ought to be done is that men ought to interpret their experience in light of the holy scriptures.

    Men too often say in their hearts, "I am a sinner (and I want to believe that I am born again)"...therefore the Bible must teach that there are born again sinners (in the sense of those who commit sin). But the Bible does not teach that. Yes, we are sinners in the sense that we have indwelling sin; but the Bible teaches that those who are born again don't commit sin...and in this sense, biblically, the born again are not sinners.

    I define it as this: we are sinners who don't commit sin, if we are born of God. Again, we are sinners in the sense that we have indwelling sin. But, we don't commit sin if we are born of God; and this is the plain reading of 1 John 3:6 (w/ 1 John 2:17) and 1 John 3:9.

    (in other words, repent).

    Kapiche?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    There is a sense that in carnal immature believers, Christ lies dormant within allowing people to indulge their temptations and stray from the truth. And then when a believer abides in Christ to walk in the Spirit, sin lies dormant (crucified) to allow a person to walk in holiness without sin.

    In the first case Christ is still on the cross and we are reigning in our own lives. But in the second case WE are on the cross and Christ is seated on the throne of our lives.
     
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  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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  18. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I've never been a sinner. Like ever. Had this halo on my head since I was three.

    @Behold: No offense, but I would agree with Episkopos here. Our righteousness in Christ is not supposed to be "by faith." It is supposed to be tangible and real.

    God bless,
    Hidden
     
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  19. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @justbyfaith for stating the truth about this doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I think I will believe Jesus and not you.

    Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

     
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