not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God...

[treeoflife]

John 1:11-14He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Does God contridict Himself? If we are saved, not of blood, nor will of the flesh, nor will of man... but of God's Will... my question is this. Can we then lose, by will of our flesh, what we never gained, by will of our flesh? Can the things that we do in our flesh take away what God has done, by His will, apart from our flesh?Yes, this is another post about the debate over the eternal security of salvation, of which I pray we would all take firm confidence of, in Jesus.

 

[tim_from_pa]

(treeoflife;55490)
John 1:11-14He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Does God contridict Himself? If we are saved, not of blood, nor will of the flesh, nor will of man... but of God's Will... my question is this. Can we then lose, by will of our flesh, what we never gained, by will of our flesh? Can the things that we do in our flesh take away what God has done, by His will, apart from our flesh?Yes, this is another post about the debate over the eternal security of salvation, of which I pray we would all take firm confidence of, in Jesus.

The answer is no. IN that sense I believe in eternal security. However, that being said, when God changes a person by being born of the Spirit, one takes the nature of their Father---- and one nature is that of continuing faith. If one "falls away", I'd have questions whether they were ever saved to begin with.

 

[waquinas]

When I believed this I often wondered how secure we really are. I mean if people seemingly with outward evidence (fruits) far greater than my own and of whom others would agree must be secure (not to mention he was sure himself) that he could then fall so badly. Great works they did and many came to the Lord by them, yet they fell. So when someone tells me they are sure of salvation, then they fall and later have a "real" conversion am always tempted to ask what makes them so certain this time is any more "real" than the last time? Where they any less certain immediately after the first conversion than the way they fell now? When I have dared or felt comfortable enough with the individual to ask; the answer does not sound any more assuring than my thoughts about great leaders of the faith who have fallen. To me saying "I just know" was never comforting. Didn't "I just know" the last time also? I went through this twice myself and was absolutely "sure" both times. No longer.Yes there should be fruit, but I think the idea that the "saved" can never sin, even sin greatly is a dangerous one. I say dangerous because it can set us up. We are all sinners and the phrase - there but the Grace of God go I - carries an entirely different aspect when you are on the other end of that view. If we sin badly there can then be a tendency or immediate assumption that everything you thought was true about yourself and your prior relationship with God was false. My take it on it anyway.

 

[treeoflife]

Amen to both

. That is, I agree. The sinful life does lead me to doubt someone's sincerity as well... and it raises questions to whether they truly had the revelation of Jesus Christ that each of us in some way receives when we believe... however, I also know that God's grace is great, and there is nothing in this life or the next that can seperate us from the love that we have in Christ Jesus... even "great" sin. We are not saved by blood, or of the flesh, or of the will of man... but by God's will, and He is 100% faithful all the time.I've seen a great error that many make. I've seen some thinking, in action, that once another Christian walks in to sin... and the feeling that we need to do something about the situation arises... the thing that many onlookers do is rationalize the situation into one of a works based Gospel, which really is no Gospel at all, saying, "They cannot be saved." And, it changes the Gospel. It goes from what was first the grace of God in Christ, to something that is now a Gospel where one need to re-earn their salvation in order to be justified before God... because by their works, they have unjustified themselves.In any case... the Lord has taught me that there will be nobody, anywhere, at any time, pointing to any of their works on that day... but all people who were ever saved at any time (Jesus' first apostles and onward, and all in the OT as well) will be 100% relying on Christ's finished work on the cross. It is God's grace!