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NUDE BEACH

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by [email protected], Jun 18, 2012.

  1. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    There are several nudist camps near my home. I live near Tampa, you see, and the climate inspires a lack of cover to some extent. Rumor has it that the native Americans here never wore anything more decorative than strings of sea shells.

    Members of nudist camps here usually only wear shoes or sandals. I visited a nude beach in St. Maarten last year. Purely as a fully clothed tourist, mind you. Not a pretty site at all. Everything is usually in the wrong place. Time and gravity take their toll and people who haven't seen their 18th birthday in a long time walk around as though it were yesterday instead of many decades past. Vanity may be alive and well even if their bodies aren't. God had a good reason for giving clothing to Adam & Eve I think. It certainly wasn't because of divine modesty.

    Which brings us to the spiritual subject at hand.

    The N.T. records several instances where folks who are demon possessed are running around naked. Why?

    Is this an expression of shame?
    Is it an example of helplessness? Is it a practical example of a human, under duress of demonic power, who is helpless to perform the most basic requirement of life - to wear clothing?
    Is it an example of demonic warfare against all things godly?
    Is it an example of demonic lust for the flesh?

    Something else perhaps.

    Your input is welcome...
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    actually, after working several years in a mental hospital, I know that one of the common practices of people who are insane is running around naked - it happened daily. I think it is just part of the breakdown of the mind - the loss of cultural norms.
     
  3. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    How dare you stoop to "moralizing nonbelievers in America through Theocracy' and cultural norms!" <_<
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I see no judgment in my post. I am not planning to pass any new legislation. No Theocracy required.
     
  5. Templar81

    Templar81 New Member

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    I think if it was lust for the flesh then they would have young attractive people there but all the naturists I've seen on TV reports and documentaries are always old, saggy and fat. No-one's gunna lsut after them.
     
  6. 7angels

    7angels Active Member

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    to each his own. many of us here judge others because of their lack of our own morals. just remember a time will come where we will be standing before God and then he will just us by his morals. me personally i prefer to not judge at all if possible so i will not have to worry about God judging me. what this should come down to is are you able to go to a nude beach and not have to worry about temptation. i could do it but i really have no desire to go to one. but there are some that go and just like to enjoy themselves. others go there to get off on watching others nude. who are we to judge these people? do we know their hearts? some people may be baby christians and don't know any better or others maybe God is not at that point in their life yet to convict them of their sinful behavior. like i said who are we to judge.

    God bless
     
  7. rjp34652@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Choir Loft

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    My impression of the general population of the nude beach was more along the lines of wilted fruit. Even the most hedonistic photographer would not waste a shot there.

    My thanks to Aspen2 who gave the best explanation of the practice of nudity, which is all I was after in the first place.

    Thanks also to Templar81 who understands what it is that I witnessed. Nothing close to a classic Greek statue at all. Sad and saggy, really.

    But back to my initial question. The Bible has a couple of instances where people were nude and supposedly under demonic influence. What is the meaning of that? Why is that happening?

    but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
     
  8. IAmAWitness

    IAmAWitness New Member

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    Since you asked, and I never thought about it before I thought about it just now. What I believe it is is such an obsession in rebellion and free living that nudism can be an outlet to continue in rebellion. From the Bible, we see the typical response in nakedness is shame, it is expected because God has instilled in us that we protect ourselves from exposure. When we reveal that exposure we are in a sense shaking our fists in the face of God, an open act of rebellion.

    Nevertheless, there was a biblical example where God commanded Isaiah to rent his clothes for many months in a demonstration of the punishment against lawless Israel (Isaiah 20). But he wasn't protesting shame, the shame response was still inherent in Isaiah and that was part of the power in the demonstration.
     
    Angelina likes this.
  9. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Well said IAM... :)

    Be Blesssed
     
  10. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    There is a lot of truth to what you say, Aspen. And no, you're not moralizing.
     
  11. Graceismine

    Graceismine New Member

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    Can't it be that they just like to feel the sun and the air on their skin? It's so hot here right now, I can tell you it would feel pretty good. :D

    They are unbelievers so morality doesn't enter into it. As far as it being demonic goes they are that anyway until they become born again.

    If they were out in public it would be a different matter. I heard on Fox that people can go naked in San Francisco is that right?
     
  12. KingJ

    KingJ New Member

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    I completely disagree. We NEED to differentiate between saved and unsaved. If a saved person runs around naked, we judge Him, exhort and help him. If an unsaved person runs around naked we DON'T condemn him, but we still judge the situation and certainly don't give our approval in any way. If a baby in Christ runs around naked we NEED to step in and HELP him!!! not say to 'each their own'' God will do flips in the air out of frustration.

    Are you making an English language error in assuming that judging is automatically condemning?

    Our body is the temple of God. The devil and demons LOVE defiling it in whatever way they can. It is disgusting for anyone to run around naked. Absolutely, terribly disgusting for a Christian!! The devil wants to attack the beauty and sanctitiy of sex. By making nudity common, he makes sex common.
     
  13. biggandyy

    biggandyy I am here to help...

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    Gimme ten bucks and I'll chase away all those nudists. One look at me in my birthday suit will cure anyone of their propensity to run around in their all together ;)
     
  14. Axehead

    Axehead New Member

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    "One of the essential rules of the Christian life is never to ask a non-Christian to conduct himself like a Christian. If grace really renews a person; if the Christian life is already evidence of the life of someone who is in Christ; if obedience to the Christian ethic is the loving response of a recipient of grace to Him who has shown His love by bestowing grace, then how can one ask a man who has not received, or who did not know that he was under grace, to act as though . . . as though his person were renewed, as though he had experienced grace bestowed upon him, as though he knew that he was the object of God's love? The obligation placed upon him is nothing but restraint. The morality to which he submits can only be based upon the fear of punishment, and God becomes then the great condemner. That is what regularly happens in so-called Christian societies." (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg.



    "Christianity has nothing commensurate with any morality. It is the essence itself of revelation that rules out all ethical systematizing and all similarity with a morality. The Christian life is not a life conformed to a morality, but one conformed to a word revealed, present, and living." (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 86)




    "Morality is part of the condition of the fall. Now endowed with the power to define good and evil, to elaborate it, to know it and to pretend to obey it, man can no longer renounce this power which he has purchased so dearly. He must exercise it. He (fallen man) cannot live without morality." (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 71)




    "In the eyes of our contemporaries, Christianity is morality first of all. And have not many epochs of Christian history been characterized by the church's insistence upon actions and conduct? ...There cannot be a Christian ethic. The whole of revelation is against it, and every attempt to construct such a morality, no matter how faithful, is a betrayal of the revelation of God in Jesus Christ, and in the last analysis an imposture. (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 201)




    "The Christian...life is dynamic. Each situation, like each person, is novel. The command of God is not a general rule, or collection of rules. It is always particular for a person at this moment, in this situation. In the unity recovered through grace, in the union with God, we are in the presence of quite a different ethical orientation. It can only be lived in Christ. There is no Christian life without the action of the Holy Spirit, without His inspiration and guidance. The necessity for God's intervening to guide our lives puts an end to our pretending to erect a Christian morality. Christian living does not exist as a morality; for he who lives it, lives by it. He does not follow commandments nor achieve objectives. He lives by the word of God which nourishes him, guides him, and carries him. There is not one Christian life. There are as many Christian lives as there are Christians. One lives in ever-surprising novelty. (Jacques Ellul - To Will and To Do. Pilgrim Press. 1969. pg. 201-219)




    "Christianity seems at first to be all about morality, all about duties and rules and guilt and virtue, yet it leads you on, out of all that, into something beyond. One has a glimpse of a country where they do not talk of those things, except perhaps as a joke. Every one there is filled full with what we should call goodness as a mirror is filled with light. But they do not call it goodness. They do not call it anything. They are not thinking of it. They are too busy looking at the source from which it comes." (C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity. Macmillan Publishing. 1978. pgs. 130,131)




    "The Christian is in a different position from other people who are trying to do good. The Christian thinks any good he does come from the Christ-life inside him. He does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us..." (C. S. Lewis - Mere Christianity. Macmillan Publishing. 1978. pg. 64)
     
  15. LouderthanThunder

    LouderthanThunder New Member

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    Now hold on here. The bible says some where let no part of your body be seen as clean or unclean. I know this was a metaphor but was it not also a truth? If nudity is shaking your fist at God than showering would be a daily act of sacralige. . .

    And again being naked in public is simply people wishing to remove the inhibitions of society in a safe and controlled environment. No one goes to a nudist beach if they are offended by naked people. Nudity does not equal sex. The only thing that has brought these things together is our immature culture and advertising. The body these days as sold as a very sexual thing when In reality it is not. Do you decry ancient Greek statues? they appear pretty naked to me. What about classical art? These things are put up in plain sight of everyone! No warnings, no disclaimers. Nothing. It is a non-sexual portrayal of the naked human body. Why? Because humans where fearfully and wonderfully made! The shame which causes us to wear clothing was a result of sin; if the garden of eden incident hadn't happened we would ALL be starkers and not care.

    As for the biblical example of mad nudity the bible never mentions mental illnesses at all. Things like autism will cause people to disregard social norms and do things we wouldn't dream of. As I have worked with these people for 3 or 4 years I could tell you some pretty odd stories. The demons here could (I say could) simply be the miss diognosis of someone with a mental impairment.

    There goes my two cents. Have a good day.
     
  16. I am Second

    I am Second New Member

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    2 “Of course we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,” the woman replied. 3 “It’s only the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden that we are not allowed to eat. God said, ‘You must not eat it or even touch it; if you do, you will die.’”
    4 “You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman. 5 “God knows that your eyes will be opened as soon as you eat it, and you will be like God, knowing both good and evil.”
    6 The woman was convinced. She saw that the tree was beautiful and its fruit looked delicious, and she wanted the wisdom it would give her. So she took some of the fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it, too. 7 At that moment their eyes were opened, and they suddenly felt shame at their nakedness. So they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. Genesis 3:27

    15 “Look, I will come as unexpectedly as a thief! Blessed are all who are watching for me, who keep their clothing ready so they will not have to walk around naked and ashamed.” Revelation 16:15


    Pretty basic concept here.
     
  17. LouderthanThunder

    LouderthanThunder New Member

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    Metaphor in the second case I think. It is saying be ready not do not be naked.
     
  18. KingJ

    KingJ New Member

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    Are you a nudist Loud? You are forming your own opinion, ignoring scripture and Christian logic.

    If you are a Christian, then good luck for tonight when you judge yourself in fear and trembling before our holy God! (good luck trying to get your opinion past!).
     
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