Objections to Sola Scriptura

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friend of

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless
 

Lambano

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Historically, Sola Scriptura was the Protestant Reformers' (over-?) reaction to the all-too-real fact that our shepherds were not being led by the Holy Spirit and were gorging themselves at the expense of the flock. They were (and at times, sadly, still are) effectively like the false prophets of OT times and cannot be trusted. So, we decided to go down the path of the Scribes and the Pharisees. To paraphrase our ISO 2000 watchdog at my previous employer, you gotta have a spec so you know what you're deviating from. The Pharisees get a bad rap; they're not too different from us.

I think Paul's vision for the Church looked like 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. It just didn't work out that way. God apparently had other plans.

Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:5-6)
 
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RedFan

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Thanks for this important post. I have a few objections to sola scriptura. And for my list, I will focus just on the NT. But we first must define sola scriptura – for if we do not agree on its definition we cannot agree on its doctrinal soundness. I define it as an abiding faith that (a) the NT writers were inspired by God to write what they wrote in such a fashion that every word is accurate historically when it recounts history and accurate doctrinally when it exhorts theology; (b) the assembly of the 27 NT books and the process by which these particular writings came to be chosen as canonical (e.g., the letter to the Hebrews is in, the Gospel of Thomas is out) -- based largely on the twin on criteria of presumed ties to the original apostles and consistency with then-held orthodoxy -- was likewise inspired by God to ensure that those making the cut were all included in (a) above; and (c) there can be found in the 27 that happened to make the cut an answer to every material theological question imaginable.

This post is already going to be long, and it would take way too long to discuss the possible challenges to (a) and (b) – and any challenge to (a) will draw way too much vitriol on this site! -- so I will focus on (c). With that out of the way, here are my comments:

1. The first generation of Christians had no NT. They had the oral teachings of the apostles and their disciples (and MAYBE, within a decade or so of Pentecost, some written compilations of the sayings of Jesus Christ now lost to us), and soon the teachings of Paul and his disciples as they traveled around the eastern Mediterranean world (slowly – no planes, trains, cars or powerboats back then). By around 50 C.E. Paul’s letters delivered to particular churches in particular towns started to be written and then copied so as to make their way beyond those towns, and MAYBE the first gospel was written in the early 50’s as well and, sooner or later, got similarly copied and began to be spread around (slowly – no printing presses back then). But that means around 20-30 years – a generation – of reliance solely or almost solely on the oral traditions of the apostles and their disciples. This was a time of nulla scriptura rather than sola scriptura. Yet Christianity in some form (whether the Jerusalem flavor of Peter and Mark or the Antiochene flavor of Paul and, much later, Luke) nevertheless managed to take root – proving that oral tradition alone can do the trick. Imagine that! Keep that in the back of your mind for now.

2. The apostolic tradition in those early years was not unanimous. There is little reason to doubt some difference of opinion among the original apostles (let’s add Matthias to the group; in fact, let’s add “the seventy”), all of whom were Jewish, on outreach to Gentiles (think about Peter’s vision and the Cornelius incident, and its aftermath, in Acts 10 and 11 – a mind-boggling scenario if these apostles had indeed heard the final words of Jesus as “recorded” in Matthew 28:19). There is little reason to doubt the disagreement between Peter and Paul recounted in Galatians on proper interaction with the Gentiles (the very different account of this “split” and its resolution as recounted in Acts is probably the more accurate). We know about the Council of Jerusalem to resolve the latter dispute. We don’t know how many other councils, conferences, theological debates and formal or informal efforts to achieve apostolic consensus on other matters took place (none of the 27 NT books describes any, but that hardly suggests there were none).

3. Even after the books of the NT were composed, different apostolic traditions continued to thrive. An example is the date of celebrating Easter, which didn’t get resolved until Nicaea in 325 C.E. The churches in Asia Minor followed the tradition handed down by John and Philip celebrating Easier on 14 Nisan regardless of whether that date fell on the Lord’s Day; most everyone else celebrated Easter only on the Lord’s Day. No answer in Scripture! A council was required to resolve the issue.

4. The gospel authors wrote down different apostolic traditions, and while they do not agree on all details, each presented different words and deeds of Jesus to support differing theological perspectives. But as full expositions of everything Jesus said and did, they are necessarily incomplete. Luke 1:1 tells us that many other accounts were written. John 21:25 tells us that Jesus Christ said and did so much more than was written by him that the whole world wouldn’t hold all the books required to do so. It follows that all of the apostles who were witnesses to what Jesus Christ said and did – whether they dictated gospels or not – were a treasure trove of unrecorded teachings of Christ. And in the first generation of Christendom, their oral traditions mattered – not just the one-tenth or one percent (at best!) that is found in the four canonical gospels. Why should it not matter today (presuming we can reconstruct it)?

5. Doctrine is informed by more than Scripture, and has to be. The doctrine of the Trinity is a prime example, if only because Scripture is so equivocal on the subject. (I use this example with some trepidation, as I suspect this post is going to be hijacked by strident debaters on both sides of this issue – because they can’t help themselves. So buckle in. It’s unavoidable. But I digress . . .) Those few scattered passages in the emerging NT canon that could arguably be deemed binitarian or (far less frequently) trinitarian yield no coherent picture of the Son’s participation in the Godhead, and as a result, three centuries of patristic thinking were occupied by the effort to explain the Church’s understanding of the nature of Jesus Christ in a manner consistent with Scripture. Thinking of two beings as distinct, and yet as sharing the same substance or essence, the same ousia, presents no difficulty unless that substance or essence or ousia is itself the unique and absolute self-subsistence of the Mosaic “I AM”—for by definition only one being can have that as its essence. Efforts to solve this dilemma—and the first three centuries of the Christian era were marked by an astonishing array of such efforts—required more than resort to Scripture if all of the myriad heresies of the time were to be beaten down. Arianism, Sabellianism, and dozens of similar isms would have hijacked the Faith and split it apart if the Church could have done no more than point to passages in Scripture. Something was needed to fill the gap – and that something was reason and philosophy. The march of Christianity outward from Palestine into the Greek world inevitably resulted in a cultural and philosophical disconnect, as tales told and texts written from a Jewish/messianic perspective were being interpreted by men imbued in a Greek philosophical tradition. It was thus natural that Greek philosophy, which had long sought to locate an ontological bridge between the One and the Many, between the realm of soul/spirit and the material world, would provide the looms for this tapestry. Rejecting it as “unscriptural” will revive all manner of early heresies. Nicaea and Chalcedon – not simply opening a Book -- were necessary to defeat them.


Given all of this, what reason do we have to believe that the NT has all the answers to everything? I can see none. I can see, rather, the need for respect to the apostolic traditions from the first and second century, as revealed in sacramental/prayer rituals tied to that era, and in the writing of the Church Fathers of the patristic period discussing these things -- as well as the need for Church councils.

[By the way, I’m not Roman Catholic, but I do think the RCC is a repository of some of this ritual and tradition (the Eastern Orthodox Church is as well). There is so much Catholic bashing on this site that I wonder whether Protestants are blind to this simply because they deem the bathwater to be as tainted as the baby.]
 

Robert Gwin

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless

The Bible is the only inspired writing among God's people Friend. Christians live their lives by it's teachings and standards, it sets the rules.
 

Michiah-Imla

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I think Paul's vision for the Church looked like 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. It just didn't work out that way. God apparently had other plans.

How can this be?

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)
 
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L.A.M.B.

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I know that in the passing of some 2000 years since Jesus's D, B, & R, much has probably been lost of the NT of Jesus Christ's gospel.

Possibly even of the epistles of the Apostles, does this mean we throw the baby and the bath water out ?

What we have of the oral is reportedly written down with the words dictated to the scribes by Apostles. I dont think we can ever recover ALL that maybe we are supposed to live by.
Does this make what we do have null and void ?

I live by the Word of God I have which my preference is the KJV. I have done a parallel of newer translation and for myself they take away the spirit of the word. Not saying the Spirit of God cannot still reach from these sources ( God works with all manner of his creation to reach the lost )

I refuse to believe man unless it is backed by the word I believe to be TRUTH! So I would say I believe only of the scriptures and hold to them as the final authority of God to whosoever will !
 
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MatthewG

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless

Hello Friend of, I personally do not care for the doctrinal stance 'Sola Scriptura' however the term 'Sola Spiritus' is far better. It is a great thing that we have writings through out history that deal with God and mankind, and how God had sent his Son to be able to reconcile the world back unto Himself.

Sola Scriptura breaks the word of God up into little daggers, and refutations of what one may say, against what another may say. We see these things going back through the Crusades and Reformations. If someone disagrees with another based on scripture 'kill them', basically that is where it ends at.

People drawing swords out, and clanging them up against each other, some slaying an ear, or trying to cut a person down by the legs, and allowing no mercy, or allowing a person to have thoughts and think for themselves. Of course the Bible is useful, are there some areas that need to be learned to get a better understanding such as Greek and Hebrew words? Sure.

The over all ending message is to have love for God and love for others, not smacking people around in the face because they disagree with a persons dogmatic stance.
 

farouk

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Hello Friend of, I personally do not care for the doctrinal stance 'Sola Scriptura' however the term 'Sola Spiritus' is far better. It is a great thing that we have writings through out history that deal with God and mankind, and how God had sent his Son to be able to reconcile the world back unto Himself.

Sola Scriptura breaks the word of God up into little daggers, and refutations of what one may say, against what another may say. We see these things going back through the Crusades and Reformations. If someone disagrees with another based on scripture 'kill them', basically that is where it ends at.

People drawing swords out, and clanging them up against each other, some slaying an ear, or trying to cut a person down by the legs, and allowing no mercy, or allowing a person to have thoughts and think for themselves. Of course the Bible is useful, are there some areas that need to be learned to get a better understanding such as Greek and Hebrew words? Sure.

The over all ending message is to have love for God and love for others, not smacking people around in the face because they disagree with a persons dogmatic stance.
Hi @MatthewG ; remember; God the Holy Spirit never contradicts His Word which He inspired: so a knowledge of the Word of God means a knowledge of the will of God.

Sola Scriptura is indeed a Scriptural idea.
 

farouk

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless
@friend of What you say makes a lot of sense.
 

marks

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Historically, Sola Scriptura was the Protestant Reformers' (over-?) reaction to the all-too-real fact that our shepherds were not being led by the Holy Spirit and were gorging themselves at the expense of the flock. They were (and at times, sadly, still are) effectively like the false prophets of OT times and cannot be trusted. So, we decided to go down the path of the Scribes and the Pharisees. To paraphrase our ISO 2000 watchdog at my previous employer, you gotta have a spec so you know what you're deviating from. The Pharisees get a bad rap; they're not too different from us.

I think Paul's vision for the Church looked like 1 Corinthians 14:1-5. It just didn't work out that way. God apparently had other plans.

Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:5-6)
The Pharisees ("separated ones") started when Israel went into captivity in Babylon. They wanted to maintain the importance of keeping God's Law. They began well.

I fully agree, we need the original spec so we know what is real.

The Bible keeps us from error and points us correctly as we are coming to know God in our personal relationship with Him.

I've noticed for some time now, errors in thought and doctrine are shown fairly easily in the Bible, one liners that refute any error. But to find the telling of what is true you may need to do more digging.

Much love!
 

farouk

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The Pharisees ("separated ones") started when Israel went into captivity in Babylon. They wanted to maintain the importance of keeping God's Law. They began well.

I fully agree, we need the original spec so we know what is real.

The Bible keeps us from error and points us correctly as we are coming to know God in our personal relationship with Him.

I've noticed for some time now, errors in thought and doctrine are shown fairly easily in the Bible, one liners that refute any error. But to find the telling of what is true you may need to do more digging.

Much love!
The Pharisees soon became a Holier than Thou set of legalists who added to the Word of God.
 
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MatthewG

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The Pharisees soon became a Holier than Thou set of legalists who added to the Word of God.

Don't you dislike that when a person comes up to you, and they explain this and that which they have been spend time doing and everything is going on in their own life, then they ask you about yours and you say very little compared to them, and then the continue on about what they are going to continue doing all while ignoring you as a human being?
 
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farouk

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Don't you dislike that when a person comes up to you, and they explain this and that which they have been spend time doing and everything is going on in their own life, then they ask you about yours and you say very little compared to them, and then the continue on about what they are going to continue doing all while ignoring you as a human being?
Good point..........
 

MatthewG

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@farouk, when you mention about the Holy Spirit it is important to remember what the Holy Spirit causes, it is not that it will not go against the Bible - but it will not go against what the spirit produces. The Flesh it self causes opposite of what the Spirit desires to cause. That is why it is so important to at least read and learn the Bible.

A whole chunk of scripture is more meatier and weightier than just simple single uses though single use scriptures can be used depending on the circumstance.

This circumstance requires meat:

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality,impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
 

farouk

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@farouk, when you mention about the Holy Spirit it is important to remember what the Holy Spirit causes, it is not that it will not go against the Bible - but it will not go against what the spirit produces. The Flesh it self causes opposite of what the Spirit desires to cause. That is why it is so important to at least read and learn the Bible.

A whole chunk of scripture is more meatier and weightier than just simple single uses though single use scriptures can be used depending on the circumstance.

This circumstance requires meat:
But the fruit of the Spirit does not negate Sola Scriptura; it should all be in harmony.
 

marks

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The Pharisees soon became a Holier than Thou set of legalists who added to the Word of God.
My understanding is that they added a number of "fence laws", so that if you kept them, you'd not even come close to breaking God's Law. But in time the "fence laws", "your traditions", became enforced like God's Law.

And yes, by Jesus' time, they had evolved into the self-righteous hypocrits Jesus contended with.

Much love!
 
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marks

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But the fruit of the Spirit does not negate Sola Scriptura; it should all be in harmony.
That's what I think about this. God will never contradict Himself, so He will never contradict the Bible. So if you learn the Bible, then, when you believe you are hearing from the Holy Spirit, you can compare His words to the Scriptures, and if there is any conflict, maybe you aren't hearing the Holy Spirit.

Much love!
 

MatthewG

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Okay, do you need an example?

Say there is someone out there right, and they are underneath a cult leader.

The cult leader tells the person - if you do something that your eyes can not look at and I catch you, I will gouge your eyes out because this what the Lord had said.

The person the cult leader, does what the cult leader said not to do, and the cult leader, goes into their room which they are watching a dirty movie!

The cult leader, grabs his ice pick and gouges the persons eye out.

Was this what was important message that Jesus had said when he said : Gouge your eye out?


Thus it is with Sola Scriptura - an abusive form of use of scripture if you ask me. It is like little ice picks to stab and argue and division, @farouk.
 

Jane_Doe22

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless
Part of the reason I’m not a Protestant is because I can’t accept Sola Scriptura. The Bible is God’s words, yes. But it’s not a letter from a dead man—- God still lives and I firmly believe He still speaks!! God Himself is the first and last of everything.

If I need help understanding something, yes I’m going read scripture thoroughly. But I’m also going to look at historical context, other people’s thoughts, and (most importantly by a long shot) going to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help teach me.
 
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