Observation of Trumps inauguration

[Stranger]

I watched the inauguration yesterday of President Trump and Vice President Pence. One thing really stuck out to me. And that is, how Christian the whole service was. No matter how many atheists were part of it, no matter how many times the Federal Govt. has ruled against Christianity and the Bible in our schools and public places due to the whining of atheists and other religions, when it comes down to the traditional transference of power, it goes back to the roots of our heritage. And those roots are Christian.

It begins in St. Johns Church with the two men meeting with the Pastor and hearing from the Bible and then praying. When it comes time to be sworn in they must lay their hands on the Bible. The Bible, which the Federal Govt forces out of schools and court rooms on the local level. They lay their hands on the Bible and swear before God to administer their duties faithfully. They swear to the God of the Bible. A Jewish Rabbi was present and gave readings from the Old Testament. Franklin Graham was present and read from the New Testament. A bishop was present, I believe from the Episcopalian Church, and read also from the New Testament. All prayed to God, the God of the Bible. Graham and the bishop prayed in the Name of Jesus Christ.

What am I saying? I'm saying all this whining about the U.S. not being a Christian nation is a lie. It was a Christian nation. It was Christians that peopled it in its origin. It's laws are based upon the Bible. It's customs and roots are based upon Christianity. This country literally will not work unless it is based upon the Bible and Christianity. All this talk of 'separation of church and state' is just that, talk. That is not part of our Constitution. And though we allow religious liberty, we still must stick to our roots and the government must acknowledge the importance of the Christian Faith in it's existence and in it's daily exercise of government. This will bring the blessing of God upon it again.

The less Christian we are, the less we support Israel. Which is why under Obama, the U.S. moved away from Israel and threw her to her enemies. Trump has embraced the Christian Faith of this country, though his own salvation is questionable, and as a result is pro-Israel. He wants to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. It would be a great move. Any movement to get Jerusalem back to Israel is going to be met with much resistance in the spiritual realm. The spiritual warfare is going to increase dramatically in our country.

Christians must pray for our government everyday. Christians must get their lives back to a place where God will hear their prayers. Do not be comfortable with sins. Confess your sins with the intent of ceasing from them. That is true repentance. No need to ask forgiveness if you plan on continuing in your sin. God wants to sanctify your body just as much as your soul and spirit. (1Thess. 5:23) "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Stranger

 

[junobet]

I watched the inauguration yesterday of President Trump and Vice President Pence. One thing really stuck out to me. And that is, how Christian the whole service was. No matter how many atheists were part of it, no matter how many times the Federal Govt. has ruled against Christianity and the Bible in our schools and public places due to the whining of atheists and other religions, when it comes down to the traditional transference of power, it goes back to the roots of our heritage. And those roots are Christian.

It begins in St. Johns Church with the two men meeting with the Pastor and hearing from the Bible and then praying. When it comes time to be sworn in they must lay their hands on the Bible. The Bible, which the Federal Govt forces out of schools and court rooms on the local level. They lay their hands on the Bible and swear before God to administer their duties faithfully. They swear to the God of the Bible. A Jewish Rabbi was present and gave readings from the Old Testament. Franklin Graham was present and read from the New Testament. A bishop was present, I believe from the Episcopalian Church, and read also from the New Testament. All prayed to God, the God of the Bible. Graham and the bishop prayed in the Name of Jesus Christ.

What am I saying? I'm saying all this whining about the U.S. not being a Christian nation is a lie. It was a Christian nation. It was Christians that peopled it in its origin. It's laws are based upon the Bible. It's customs and roots are based upon Christianity. This country literally will not work unless it is based upon the Bible and Christianity. All this talk of 'separation of church and state' is just that, talk. That is not part of our Constitution. And though we allow religious liberty, we still must stick to our roots and the government must acknowledge the importance of the Christian Faith in it's existence and in it's daily exercise of government. This will bring the blessing of God upon it again.

The less Christian we are, the less we support Israel. Which is why under Obama, the U.S. moved away from Israel and threw her to her enemies. Trump has embraced the Christian Faith of this country, though his own salvation is questionable, and as a result is pro-Israel. He wants to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. It would be a great move. Any movement to get Jerusalem back to Israel is going to be met with much resistance in the spiritual realm. The spiritual warfare is going to increase dramatically in our country.

Christians must pray for our government everyday. Christians must get their lives back to a place where God will hear their prayers. Do not be comfortable with sins. Confess your sins with the intent of ceasing from them. That is true repentance. No need to ask forgiveness if you plan on continuing in your sin. God wants to sanctify your body just as much as your soul and spirit. (1Thess. 5:23) "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Stranger

Question is: Was it truly Christian or was it merely hypocritical?

 

[Stranger]

Question is: Was it truly Christian or was it merely hypocritical?

It was truly Christian for the reasons I gave.

Stranger

 

[michaelvpardo]

I don't know Donald Trump personally, though I appreciate that he is not inclined to dissembling speech and says what's on his mind whether smart or stupid as it may be. President Trump understands something of crowd mentality (herd mentality) and knows how to manipulate a crowd, but as far as I can see his campaign and his inaugural speech were about getting the American people unified behind his own agenda. The degree to which he fails to unite people is directly related to the degree that his agenda deviates from theirs. His campaign was in some ways nearly identical to President Obama's campaign, but driven by a different agenda and a different perspective on life in the USA.
Unity is something that most people desire, at least to the point of acceptance in a community, but unity dependent upon circumstance will only last as long as the circumstances last.

I found it interesting that the news avoided covering some aspects of the protests associated with the inauguration. My wife left a channel with BBC content selected on our TV set in the bedroom and when I went in to fold some clothing on the bed, I was treated to the images of a protest march and one large banner which read something like "No racism, No sexism, No capitalism" being carried by the individuals in the lead of marching protesters. Someone obviously got some feedback about the sign and a few individuals rushed into the camera's field of view to block the sign with their bodies (there was no other reason for them to move to such positions). I tried searching on-line for anyone posting about a "communist banner at the presidential inauguration," but found nothing. Why would the news media suppress visible evidence that at least some of the protests were organized by Communists or socialists?

"Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again"​

 

[junobet]

I don't know Donald Trump personally, though I appreciate that he is not inclined to dissembling speech and says what's on his mind whether smart or stupid as it may be. President Trump understands something of crowd mentality (herd mentality) and knows how to manipulate a crowd, but as far as I can see his campaign and his inaugural speech were about getting the American people unified behind his own agenda. The degree to which he fails to unite people is directly related to the degree that his agenda deviates from theirs. His campaign was in some ways nearly identical to President Obama's campaign, but driven by a different agenda and a different perspective on life in the USA.
Unity is something that most people desire, at least to the point of acceptance in a community, but unity dependent upon circumstance will only last as long as the circumstances last.

I found it interesting that the news avoided covering some aspects of the protests associated with the inauguration. My wife left a channel with BBC content selected on our TV set in the bedroom and when I went in to fold some clothing on the bed, I was treated to the images of a protest march and one large banner which read something like "No racism, No sexism, No capitalism" being carried by the individuals in the lead of marching protesters. Someone obviously got some feedback about the sign and a few individuals rushed into the camera's field of view to block the sign with their bodies (there was no other reason for them to move to such positions). I tried searching on-line for anyone posting about a "communist banner at the presidential inauguration," but found nothing. Why would the news media suppress visible evidence that at least some of the protests were organized by Communists or socialists?

"Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again"​

Well, I’m not attached to any specific economic system, but Matthew 6:19-21, Matthew 6:24, Matthew 19:21, Luke 6:24, Luke 12:15, Acts 4:32-35, Hebrews 13:5, 1 Timothy 6:9-10 give me reason to think that God does not necessarily want us to be capitalists.
Somehow verses such as 1 Corinthians 10:24, Philippians 2:3-4 seem to be at odds with sentiments such as “America First”. It seems in his Inauguration speechTrump forgot that God does not just infuse children “ born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the wind-swept plains of Nebraska (…) with the breath of life”, but any child born anywhere in the world.
And surely God does not approve of lying and recognizes lies as lies even if politicians try to rebrand them as “alternative facts”.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Well, I’m not attached to any specific economic system, but Matthew 6:19-21, Matthew 6:24, Matthew 19:21, Luke 6:24, Luke 12:15, Acts 4:32-35, Hebrews 13:5, 1 Timothy 6:9-10 give me reason to think that God does not necessarily want us to be capitalists.
Somehow verses such as 1 Corinthians 10:24, Philippians 2:3-4 seem to be at odds with sentiments such as “America First”. It seems in his Inauguration speechTrump forgot that God does not just infuse children “ born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the wind-swept plains of Nebraska (…) with the breath of life”, but any child born anywhere in the world.
And surely God does not approve of lying and recognizes lies as lies even if politicians try to rebrand them as “alternative facts”.

You do understand that the NT verses you mention apply to born again believers in Jesus Christ, not nations, right? God doesn't give approval to some leaders and disapproval to others. He has given all of them authority, whether good or evil, and has placed them into power. God is Sovereign in creation. This doesn't make us puppets, because we have choice, but the Lord is in absolute control over the world despite the world's rebellion to Him. The scripture tells us that the heart of the king is in God's hands, which is to say that the king may think that he rules, but God turns the king's heart to do His will. We don't like to think of God changing our minds for us, but the clear teaching of scripture, both Old and New testaments, is that He does just that.
Here are two verses for support of what I've stated here, but there are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of verses that indicate God's work in a human heart:
13. The LORD looks from heaven; He sees all the sons of men;
14. From His dwelling place He looks out On all the inhabitants of the earth,
15. He who fashions the hearts of them all, He who understands all their works. Psalms 33:13-15

The king's heart is {like} channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes. Proverbs 21:1

God may not be a big fan of capitalism (which treats labor as an expendable asset or an unwanted liability), but Communism is specifically godless and Socialism is just a watered-down version of Communism. Both reject the notion that God is the One who gives people the power to obtain wealth and that those who do not work should not eat. God's actual choice of government is a monarchy, but only with Him as the absolute monarch.

 

[junobet]

You do understand that the NT verses you mention apply to born again believers in Jesus Christ, not nations, right? God doesn't give approval to some leaders and disapproval to others. He has given all of them authority, whether good or evil, and has placed them into power. God is Sovereign in creation. This doesn't make us puppets, because we have choice, but the Lord is in absolute control over the world despite the world's rebellion to Him. The scripture tells us that the heart of the king is in God's hands, which is to say that the king may think that he rules, but God turns the king's heart to do His will. We don't like to think of God changing our minds for us, but the clear teaching of scripture, both Old and New testaments, is that He does just that.
Here are two verses for support of what I've stated here, but there are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of verses that indicate God's work in a human heart:
13. The LORD looks from heaven; He sees all the sons of men;
14. From His dwelling place He looks out On all the inhabitants of the earth,
15. He who fashions the hearts of them all, He who understands all their works. Psalms 33:13-15

The king's heart is {like} channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes. Proverbs 21:1

God may not be a big fan of capitalism (which treats labor as an expendable asset or an unwanted liability), but Communism is specifically godless and Socialism is just a watered-down version of Communism. Both reject the notion that God is the One who gives people the power to obtain wealth and that those who do not work should not eat. God's actual choice of government is a monarchy, but only with Him as the absolute monarch.

First of all: sorry for the late answer, I rarely get around to have a look into this forum these days.
It seems we disagree on quite a lot of things here, but let’s start with something that we agree on: that God wants to be and is the absolute sovereign of everything.
Does God favour monarchy as the form in which human beings should organize their communities? While the Bible tells us that He put up with the Israelites wanting to have a king, 1 Samuel 8 makes it rather clear that God’s not altogether keen on the idea of a monarchy. History shows that God frequently allows for bad people to gain earthly power, but that doesn’t mean He approves of their bad deeds.
As for the ruling classes in general: while I agree with you that the Bible is first and furthermost directed at the individual believer, I doubt very much that God has a different set of moral standards for politicians than He has for you and me. All of us will have to answer for our deeds one day: you, I and Mr. Trump. While in Christ God has shown that He’s willing to forgive our sins, a lie remains a sin, no matter whether it is told by you or me or by the most powerful people on this earth. And when the Bible repeatedly tells us that it’s good and proper in the eyes of God to look after the poor, to speak out for the oppressed, to do justice, to give shelter to strangers etc. IMHO that’s not just meant for our private lives, but also for the choices we make concerning public life.
As for socialism/communism: it seems you labour under two very common misapprehensions: A that socialism/communism is necessarily linked to atheism and B that it promotes idleness. Neither is the case. There are in fact very many Christian communists/socialists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism). And of course communism/socialism does not promote idleness, but protests against people who idly live on their inheritance and accumulated wealth, whilst holding the working class in high esteem. It’s main motto is: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. Please note that the second half of this motto can be found almost verbatim in Acts 4:35.
Please don’t get me wrong: while I see no reason for a Christian to defend capitalism - an economic system that is essentially based on human greed - I’m not out to promote communism or socialism either. But it gives me the creeps when some Christians rage against the welfare state as if it was a bad thing when in fact the Bible very clearly tells us that welfare for everybody is what God wants us to exercise. And, alas, it is very clearly not what Mr. Trump means to exercise.

 

[michaelvpardo]

First of all: sorry for the late answer, I rarely get around to have a look into this forum these days.
It seems we disagree on quite a lot of things here, but let’s start with something that we agree on: that God wants to be and is the absolute sovereign of everything.

Please don’t get me wrong: while I see no reason for a Christian to defend capitalism - an economic system that is essentially based on human greed - I’m not out to promote communism or socialism either. But it gives me the creeps when some Christians rage against the welfare state as if it was a bad thing when in fact the Bible very clearly tells us that welfare for everybody is what God wants us to exercise. And, alas, it is very clearly not what Mr. Trump means to exercise.

Maybe he just thinks that those who don't work should not eat. I don't know the man's mind or heart, beyond what I've seen on his sleeve, but there is one thing that I appreciate about the man, even though I didn't vote for him (or Ms. Clinton.) I can remember presidents going back to JFK and my favorite was Richard Milhouse Nixon, in spite of his public disgrace. Why?, you might ask. Because he kept his campaign promises even though it took over 4 years to accomplish. A word given is an important thing in the eyes of God. Growing up in the NY metro area, I always held some disdain for Donald Trump, because all I knew about him was what I saw in newspapers and sometimes on television, which never portrayed him in the best light. I'm concerned about the man's mental state, but he's hardly more crazy than Theodore Roosevelt was, and Roosevelt played a large role in making America an international power. In any case, it is God who places men in authority and it is God who removes them. It is the Christian's responsibility to submit to legal authority, whether that authority is righteous or unrighteous, at least to the extent that submission falls short of disobeying God's word. I didn't vote for or like President Obama and have been guilty of making fun of the man on more than one occasion, yet I always believed he deserved the respect of the office that he held and was offended by the media's familiarity when speaking about him whether for good or evil.
Isn't America being judged now? Isn't God observing and considering our speech and our actions now and hasn't he considered the outcome? President Donald Trump is kind of a national backlash at the reprobate progressive agenda, and there's a price to pay for such vented wrath, but what form it takes remains to be seen.