1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Office of a Prophet.....Gift of prophesy

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Heart2Soul, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Lesson 1.....

    Ephesians 4:11-16 King James Version (KJV)
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

    Okay notice verses 12 through 16.....does that apply to us today? YES, this is the Church that we will see rise up in the last days....so does that mean we still need apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers.....ABSOLUTELY! When did man decide how God should operate His Church? Get back to the basics and with simple faith trust in His Word.
    So here we are re-establishing HIS CHURCH....what I want to share today is prophet and prophesy.

    There is a difference between a prophet and the gift of prophesy.....it is my hope to explain this since I continually see confusion to this particular subject.
    So I have already had this discussion on another forum and I am taking some posts from that as well as adding new to it...
    Office of a Prophet:
    This seems to be a discussion that has missed the mark ,on the calling of a prophet.
    But as always religion will confuse the truth of the kingdom.
    1.To make it clear ,a prophet is not a Oracle nor mystic.
    2.The operation of a prophet in the Church age is less demanding than before Christ.
    3.All people who are filled with the Holy Spirit have a calling to good works.
    4.The Prophet today like yesterday has the gift of discerning of spirits.
    5.The Prophet may know ,but be instructed not to tell.
    6.The Prophet sees the hand of God in lives ,and sees darkness over people as well.
    7.Often the prophet speaks ,at a moment's notice ,it is not scripted and the words are from the Holy Spirit.
    8.Prophets often are mistaken for angry people ,sarcastic and mean spirited.
    It is only the desire to please God that drives their emotions ,they see and cannot say often.
    They must abide close in God's will and work in His time no matter what they know.
    9.Prophets are rarely used in the Church for Works due to restraints.
    10.Prophets have the authority to speak to who ever ,and will if called to.
    11.Prophets rebuke and praise the works of others.
    12.But Prophets are not fortune tellers ,and their calling is among believers ,and non believers.
    13.To speak over someone is a rare occasion that signs will follow.
    It is a spiritual conversation that transcends the environment around you.
    It is utterance in the Spirit that may be an answer to a prayer ,or a calling of God.
    It is not common place.
    Gift of prophesy:
    1 Corinthians 14:38-39

    Orderly Worship
    …38But if anyone ignores this, he himself will be ignored. 39So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything must be done in a proper and orderly manner.…
    1 Corinthians 14
    Prophecy and Tongues
    14 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

    Okay......the gift of prophesy operates as the Holy Spirit gives them utterance to speak in a church....it is not a daily calling but rather as He Wills.
    The office of a prophet is a calling....and is a daily walk....it is instant in Word to speak at a moments notice what the Holy Spirit desires to speak.

    So this is lesson 1....going to give some time for meditating on this....Might as well do all 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit as well as all the callings of the Church.....maybe I should Blog this instead of thread it here......suggestions please.

    Just wanted to add this.....Hidden In Him interprets dreams...this is a type of prophetic calling.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  2. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Lesson 2
    1. Prophets today add nothing to Bible Prophesy.....but rather confirm it and reapply it as it relates to individuals lives and world events. For example: If God is speaking to someone about a sin in their life...it is a warning to heed the Scriptures concerning that sin.....and to encourage them to repent and get back on the right track....It is backed up scripturally.....
    2. Gift of Prophesy will also confirm and apply scripture but it is always encouraging....For Example: In the church someone is moved to give a prophetic word then it will be encouraging and confirm what they have been seeking and praying for, in other words it will be a confirmation to what God is already speaking to them about. It is backed up scripturally as well.
    3. Not all people who prophesy are prophets but all prophets can prophesy.
    4. Prophets are strong in operating in the gift of discernment.....they see the spirit operating in someone. They are also targets for Jezebel's who attack them. The Jezebel Spirit is a big clue that someone has a prophetic calling since the main theme of Jezebel is to destroy the prophets.
    5. Someone who has the gift of prophesy may not have the gift of spiritual discernment....some may. All 9 gifts can operate through anyone at any time the Holy Spirit chooses to move....because it is the Holy Spirit who is operating THROUGH this person.....it is not of themselves.
    6. Prophets are extremely sensitive to the Holy Spirit and when He is grieved they grieve....
    7. Prophets have the heart of God and desire the best for God's people....they can carry a heavy burden for someone or a situation and spend hours praying and interceding and seeking God's Will on this matter.
     
  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    As I noted in another thread we do have the apostles and prophets before us each time we open the Bible. Christ called all of the Tanakh (the Old Testament) "the prophets" and the apostles and evangelists --when writing Scripture -- were also writing as prophets. Those who wrote by divine inspiration. Thus Peter said "We [the evangelists and apostles] have A MORE SURE WORD OF PROPHECY".

    Since the apostle Paul said "...whether there be prophecies, they shall fail (cease)..." (1 Cor 13:8) and since the apostle John closed the canon of Scripture with the prophetic book of Revelation, prophecies have come to an end, and so have prophets.

    Today, the spiritual gifts for the edification of the saints are those of evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
     
    Harvest 1874 likes this.
  4. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This is not true.....in that same book of Corinthians from which you quoted....the next chapter 14 discusses the roles that operate in the church and the gifts. Prophets today do not add nor take away from Bible Prophesy....they confirm it.
     
  5. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Lesson 3: Gift of Wisdom and Gift of Knowledge
    Not being lazy but I am on time constraints so I am using this person's teaching on the gifts.

    The Gift of Wisdom
    The first gift Paul mentions is the gift of wisdom (v 8). It is listed first perhaps because it is foundational to the church and this is a gift that the believer can earnestly desire (v 31). Wisdom is clearly taught in the Word of God and “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding” (Psalm 111:10). This is the precious gift that Solomon asked for and received from God to be able to rightly rule God‘s nation (I Kings 3:12). With this wisdom, Solomon could understand what do in difficult decisions. Wisdom is also associated with fearing the Lord. Fear is simply standing in awe of God in reverence and respect. It entails loving His Word and being obedient to what it says. There is no wisdom in disobedience. This means that if some members are revering God’s laws and statutes, including loving God and loving your neighbor, that many members in the church can have this gift. Of course, many can not have it either. This gift is of supreme importance for members in the Body of Christ for if we can love God and our neighbor, we can greatly contribute to the church and those outside of the church. This love is another way of showing unbelievers and attracting them to Christ by it (John 13:35).

    The Gift of Knowledge
    The next gift of the Spirit is that of knowledge (v 8). Some people have such a gift of remembering scriptures. They have knowledge of God and His ways. They seem to be able to quickly distinguish which is biblical and which is not. Some translations say it is the “Word” of knowledge while others say that it is the “utterance” of knowledge. The Word is most certainly the Word of God. The “utterance” of knowledge could indicate that those with the gift of knowledge know when to speak particular words, when not to, and what words to speak with. Both words seem to fulfill what true knowledge is. These with this gift make excellent teachers, deacons, elders, or pastors.



    Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-are-gifts-of-the-spirit-a-bible-study/#ixzz5NRdBg581
     
    Mayflower and amadeus like this.
  6. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Yes, the apostolic churches did have the spiritual gift of prophecy and Paul encouraged those who had this gift to use it for the edification of Christians in 1 Cor 14. Not all would be prophets, just as not all would be apostles, and not all would speak in tongues.

    But in 1 Cor 13 he was teaching that the GREATEST gift was agape love, and that eventually prophecies, tongues, and supernatural knowledge would come to an end. And when the Bible was completed that is exactly what happened. None of the apostolic "Fathers" (or even those who came later) ever claimed to be prophets. Indeed not one of the Reformers claimed to be prophets. So the modern trend of claiming to be prophets really began in the 20th century.
     
  7. epostle1

    epostle1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,325
    Likes Received:
    499
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    I would add that the gift of pastorship is not the same as the office of pastor. Problems arise when those with the gift think they can over-ride the office.
     
    Heart2Soul likes this.
  8. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,755
    Likes Received:
    5,356
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, not when the Bible was written did that which is perfect come:

    "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." I Cor 13:10

    Jesus directs us to the "perfect" here:

    "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

    He was not speaking of a book, not even the Bible. He was speaking to people becoming like God. Who is even able to see His face perfectly as of today?

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

    When all of those who really believe Him and therefore also love Him have come to see Him as well as that then will all of the confusion which is found in the churches be gone. They will have come through the fire:

    "Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." Dan 3:28

    All of the imperfections were burned up. Only the perfect remained. That is the prophecy for us... but who has attained to it? WHo is on the approach? Help us dear Lord!
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Paul did not say "he who is perfect" but "that which is perfect". That should tell us that he was not referring to Christ or Christians.

    And the context makes it clear that all the spiritual gifts connected to divine revelations would cease when THAT which is COMPLETE (Gk teleios) is come -- the complete and perfect Word of God.
     
  10. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,755
    Likes Received:
    5,356
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Each one of us must be ready [perfect] before we can be part of the whole Body of Christ connected to Jesus as our Head through the Holy Spirit. The fully connected, one to another, Body of Christ is that which is perfect. Each one of us must lose his own head before he can claim to have Jesus as his Head and to be a part of the Body of Christ. Until all of the parts are fitly connected that which is perfect has NOT yet come:

    "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:15-16
     
  11. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,331
    Likes Received:
    8,708
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    You are preaching "my" word. :D
    I so agree. Can you see what you are saying here John.

    You end with " who can attained to it?" We know the answer to that.
    One and One only...and we have attained "in Him"...we must live there if we wish to be among the Overcomers. Rev 3
    If not, we fall short along with all the other riffraff .
     
    Nancy and amadeus like this.
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,755
    Likes Received:
    5,356
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Giving God always the glory, Helen! He alone is always worthy!
     
    michaelvpardo, Nancy and "ByGrace" like this.
  13. Ac28

    Ac28 Active Member

    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    89
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    All prophecy involves the nation of Israel.
    Israel has not existed as a nation, in God's eyes, since she was set aside in Ac 28:25-27, nearly 2000 years ago
    Therefore, there have been no prophets nor has any prophecy been fulfilled since 70AD
     
  14. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    By whose authority do you deny the prophets of God and what they have spoken and that they do not exist anymore. Persecution and rejection of God's messengers has been around since God raised up prophets...and are still to this day they are persecuted and rejected...so this false teaching such as yours is nothing new before God and He will expose this lie in His timing.

    In Acts 7, Stephen presents his defense for why he is a follower of Jesus. At one point in his speech, he says this:
    Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? (Acts 7:52)
    In other words, “Name me one prophet that our ancestors did not persecute, despise, and reject.”
    Rejection is something true prophets are used to and it is a most challenging and difficult calling to continue to serve because of it. But they do continue to perserver because they carry in their heart the burden of grief that God has for His people and how they have been lead astray by every wind of doctrine invented by the lying and deceptive leaders who taught them.

    God is the Authority over His Church and His Word and he sets prophets in the church to lead His people back to the truth and to expose false doctrine and false teaching....So what turns the tide of unbelief once it gets started? The ministry of a prophet. If God did not raise up a man to be a prophet right at the crucial moment when his people began to wander away from him into sin and evil, no one would be left to follow him today.

    Hosea 12:10[​IMG],13[​IMG]
    “I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
    And by a prophet the Lord brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.”

    At the rise of Pentecostal churches there was a great revival and outpouring of the Holy Spirit and prophets were in the church back then operating in their calling....as false prophets began to arise in great numbers the reputation of a prophet of God was tainted to the point that churches stopped teaching this as being a modern day office. The church today is dying and the teaching of the Truth based on His Word is getting harder and harder to find and God needs His prophets to be restored back in the church to be His voice against any false teachings, false doctrines and FALSE PROPHETS who destroyed the integrity of this office. God will restore His church in the order it was first established and set up to operate by Him.

    As of today there are over 40,000 Christian "faiths" teaching God's people....unfortunately a majority of them are teaching false doctrines and false teachings and false prophets because there is no true prophet allowed in the churches today to correct any errors taught by the pastor or teacher....But God has stirred His apostles and prophets and is calling them to rise up and restore the church and lead them back to Him. His prophets will walk in strict obedience to do all that He tells them and speak what He has spoken.

    Today's true prophets are not adding nor taking away anything from God's Word they are simply confirming it. and scripture says the prophets are subject to the prophets...meaning let another prophet confirm what God is speaking... Now there are personal prophesies given to an individual as the Holy Spirit leads but a member of the church operating in the gift of prophesy can be used in these cases.

    Unity in the Body
    …11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.…

    GOD’S ANOINTED- Not a Warning against Criticism
    Second, “Touch not mine anointed ones” is a warning not to kill or do actual harm to God’s anointed. It is not saying that Christians cannot criticize or correct God’s anointed. The same is true for the warning, “and do My prophets no harm.” Even true prophets, when they are not speaking prophetically, can be mistaken.

    GOD’S ANOINTED- Who Are God’s Prophets?
    Third, while it is true that we should not reject God’s prophets, that still leaves us with the responsibility to determine who God’s prophets really are. Not everybody who claims today to be a prophet of God can really be one, since they frequently contradict one another. If someone claims to be God’s prophet but teaches false doctrine or proclaims false prophecies, we have every right to reject them — in fact, we must reject them.


    So I encourage you to seek God on this matter and I pray the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, will come upon you and open your eyes to see and ears to here.
     
    michaelvpardo, amadeus and Nancy like this.
  15. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    53
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    South Africa
    Lovely topic. Without God's prophets we would not get anywhere with God.

    Amos3:7
    Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


    Yet people handle it with rubber gloves. Everyone is always ready to acknowledge that there is false prophets but what about the true ones?
    Looking at Scriptures they are almost always unrecognized to the people they were sent too.

    John 6:28-29
    28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    So how would we recognize one, say if one is to show up today?
     
    michaelvpardo and faithfulness like this.
  16. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    842
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Exactly, but there are also ways such as their message lining up with the Word, that it is leading people back to Jesus, and that it comes to pass.....but by spiritual discernment you can recognize that lying spirit and call it out.
     
    michaelvpardo and amadeus like this.
  17. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    398
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, but the same chapter tells us WHEN they would cease - when we see Him face to face.

    The gifts are part of our New Covenant and part of our "abundant life. Nothing in a covenant ends until the covenant, itself, ends. The Bible spells out what we have, it doesn't negate anything. If you don't like, or want to take part in some things in our covenant, that's up to you, and you alone, to your detriment and ignorance. But, don't try to convince others to join in your unbelief. Especially, if you are thinking of saying they are of Satan, the author of unbelief.

    To hold up the Sardis "dead church" reformers as an authority, is chasing after false teachers with itching ears. Revelation 3.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
    michaelvpardo and amadeus like this.
  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Paul was careful to say "THAT which is perfect (complete) is come" NOT "HE who is perfect is come". When the Scriptures were complete, those three spiritual gifts were withdrawn.
     
  19. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    398
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    So you are without any doubt going to say what "that" is? Even if it goes against our New Covenant? Don't you see that is like God is a chef who writes a recipe book, then when it is published, says okay, worship the book, don't eat anything in it.
     
    michaelvpardo and amadeus like this.
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,860
    Likes Received:
    1,350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    How can a completed Bible goes against the New Covenant? Had all the translations used the word "complete" instead of "perfect" there would have been no confusion. But the International Standard Version got it right:

    International Standard Version
    But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will be done away with.

    We know from the closing words of the book of Revelation that the Bible was completed with that book. John also warned that nothing more should be added to his prophecies, and by extension to the Bible. Therefore tongues, prophecies, and supernatural knowledge are not required. The Bible is sufficient.
     
Loading...