Oldest and Best, Really??

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Davy

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There is a difference between New Testament Bible translations today. Depending on which one you use, it comes from one of two different types of Greek text. And it DOES matter which one you rely upon for The New Testament.

The authors of the Critical text (Wescott and Hort) claimed that the Greek Majority Text, which earlier New Testament translations are based on, are not as old nor as reliable as their Critical text. They claim the Greek Majority Text has additions, which is why their Critical text is shorter, and omits around 2,800 words that the Received Text has. They claim over time words were added to produce the Received Text. And because they allege their Critical text is older, it doesn't have those additions. None of that has ever been proven to be fact though. It was just assumed by Wescott and Hort.

What this means then, is that if you want to use a modern New Testament version, understand that you are relying on a totally different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional texts used in history for the New Testament prior to the 1880s. And that newer Greek text is shorter, because it does not include something like 196 verses that are in earlier New Testament translations, like the KJV.

1. Received Text (Textus Receptus) or Byzantine Text or Majority Text, or Traditional Text -- this Greek text is based on the majority of existing Greek NT manuscripts, which is in the thousands. They make up the Byzantine tradition. This is why it is also called the Majority Text.

The higher critics wrongly claim that the Textus Receptus was created by Erasmus. That idea is false, because Erasmus in the 1500s made a Greek translation from... those Majority Text manuscripts. He only made a translation from existing Greek texts, and published it. These Greek texts were the same ones from antiquity. The title 'Received Text' was coined in the 1600s and thus the Latin name Textus Receptus means Received Text. But the source is from the Majority Text of thousands of Greek New Testament manuscripts that exist.

It is what was used for New Testament Bible translations prior to the 1880s, like the 1611 KJV, Bible translations by John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Miles Coverdale, Matthew's Bible, The Great Bible, Geneva Bible, Bishop's Bible, etc.


2. Critical Text, or Eclectic Text -- this is mainly 2 Greek texts, the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus. The conventional theory is that these Greek texts are the 'oldest and best' Greek New Testament manuscripts, as alleged by the 1800s British scholars Wescott and Hort (abbreviated as W&H). Notice the NKJV is in this group also, simply because it has notes of NU in its margin, showing the Critical Text of the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies was used which included Wescott and Hort's new Greek text.

However, that oldest and best idea of Wescott and Hort was never established as fact, and discovery of newer manuscript evidence even shows the Codex Vaticanus, and the Codex Sinaiticus are not the oldest and best Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

Vaticanus was first discovered in the Vatican library in 1475 with nothing to date any previous origin. The Sinaiticus was first discovered in 1859 by Tischendorf at St. Catherine's monastery in Greece. Tischendorf, a German rationalist, is who first claimed Sinaiticus is older than the Textus Receptus without any evidence. A Greek scholar and paleographer of ancient Greek text named Simonides at the monastery claimed he was assigned to write Sinaiticus (under a different title), and that it was to be presented to the Czar in hopes of getting a donation for a printing press. The translation contained many errors that required repair, and overwrites, making the translation unpresentable. All this means it is a modern work created in the 1840s. The white appearance of the Sinaiticus manuscript also gives away its modern authorship. All the ancient Greek texts show oxidation, turning the document to a bronze color.

The Critical text, plus some pieces of other Greek manuscripts claimed to have been found later, are what the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies (UBS) New Testament translations are based upon, making up about 2% of modern New Testament versions, because its main reliance is still upon Wescott and Hort's 1881 new Greek translation.

The modern New Testament translations are based on the Critical Text. NIV, New Living Translation, English Standard Version (ESV), New King James Version (NKJV), Christian Standard Bible (CSB), The Message (MSG), New American Standard Version (NASV). English Revised Version (ERV), New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), World English Bible (WEB), Updated American Standard Version (UASV). If you have a New Testament that says it's from the Nestle-Aland or United Bible Societies, often abbreviated as NU, then you're using Wescott and Hort's new Greek translation they did from Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.
 
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Davy

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Why is this matter about the two main types of Greek New Testament text that important? Aren't they all the same God's Word? No, they are not both the same.

The historical or Traditional Greek text is God's Word, and has survived from the earliest centuries from the Antioch and Byzantine tradition and to the 1611 King James Version Bible from which translations of the same Greek text (Textus Receptus) have gone out to the majority of other nations in their own language. The Received Text (or Majority Text) is clearly shown through history to be The Word of God preserved by God Himself.

This matter of the two different Greek texts is important because it is about a spiritual battle between The Church and its historical Greek New Testament, vs. the followers of the Occult.

Documentation exists that Fenton John Anthony Hort and Brooke Foss Wescott were involved in a spiritualist association at Cambridge known as the Ghostly Guild, or "the Ghost Club", with the aim to investigate the supernatural. This association would later become the Society For Psychical Research, an Occult group. (Documenting Cambridge’s Ghostly Guild/Association for Spiritual Inquiry/Ghost Society/Ghost Club)

The information about their association with the Ghostly Guild, and just how Hort and Wescott felt about the Traditional Received Greek text of The New Testament can be found in their own personal letters and by testimony of relatives which were published. You can read them here:
Life and letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort : Hort, Fenton John Anthony, 1828-1892 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Life and letters of Brooke Foss Westcott, D.D., D.C.L., sometime Bishop of Durham : Westcott, Arthur : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

All modern New Testament versions are based on the new Greek translation that Wescott and Hort presented to the revision committee of 1881. Their revision amounted to a 'new' Greek text for The New Testament. It is called the Critical Text. They based their new translation on the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus manuscripts. All modern New Testament translations are based from the Wescott and Hort Greek text.

Internal evidence of their new Greek text reveals their attempt to remove the Divinity of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Traditional historical Greek texts for The New Testament. They denied many New Testament doctrines revealed in the Traditional Greek text, thus their desire to get rid of the Traditional Majority texts used for earlier New Testament versions.

The following link reveals more about Wescott and Hort's Occult association with The Society For Psychical Research and the Russian mystic Helena Petrova Blavatsky, one of the heads of the Occult Theosophical Research Society. Blavatsky used a spiritualist channeling tool called 'automatic writing' (like the Ouija Board idea) to channel a spirit through her by which she wrote a two volume work called The Secret Doctrine and another called Isis Unveiled, in which she claimed were dictated to her by her spirit contact.

Undeniable: The Satanic infiltration of Churches (Westcott & Hort and BEYOND)

Anytime there is involvement of the Occult in scholar associations, that suggests an outside spirit influence. In the days of Wescott and Hort the Spiritualist movement was popular with holding occult seances in hopes of contacting a spirit. God's Word in The Old Testament says to not do this. And under God's law the penalty for practicing witchcraft was the death penalty, and enforced even into the Christian era, also by king James I in 1600s Britain (is it any wonder why the Occultists hated him?).

Many brethren in today's Churches are simply not getting an education on these things, so most are not aware of this battle of the Occult against Christ's Church, and particularly the many corrupt modern New Testament versions with their continual edits and such (Nestle-Aland based on the W&H Greek text had something like 28 editions, the claim of discovery of new pieces of ancient Greek manuscripts). And the attack has especially been in past centuries upon the Catholic Church, and on the Church of England with a falling away, as Wescott and Hort in the 1800s were examples, being members of the Anglican Church of England.

So the next time someone just says, "It's all the same Bible, The Gospel is written in all of the versions," do some deeper verification by making comparisons with the Traditional Greek New Testament translations vs. the modern versions based on Wescott and Hort's (Nestle-Aland, and UBS) new Greek Critical text.
 

Robert Gwin

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There is a difference between New Testament Bible translations today. Depending on which one you use, it comes from one of two different types of Greek text. And it DOES matter which one you rely upon for The New Testament.

The authors of the Critical text (Wescott and Hort) claimed that the Greek Majority Text, which earlier New Testament translations are based on, are not as old nor as reliable as their Critical text. They claim the Greek Majority Text has additions, which is why their Critical text is shorter, and omits around 2,800 words that the Received Text has. They claim over time words were added to produce the Received Text. And because they allege their Critical text is older, it doesn't have those additions. None of that has ever been proven to be fact though. It was just assumed by Wescott and Hort.

What this means then, is that if you want to use a modern New Testament version, understand that you are relying on a totally different set of Greek manuscripts other than the Traditional texts used in history for the New Testament prior to the 1880s. And that newer Greek text is shorter, because it does not include something like 196 verses that are in earlier New Testament translations, like the KJV.

1. Received Text (Textus Receptus) or Byzantine Text or Majority Text, or Traditional Text -- this Greek text is based on the majority of existing Greek NT manuscripts, which is in the thousands. They make up the Byzantine tradition. This is why it is also called the Majority Text.

The higher critics wrongly claim that the Textus Receptus was created by Erasmus. That idea is false, because Erasmus in the 1500s made a Greek translation from... those Majority Text manuscripts. He only made a translation from existing Greek texts, and published it. These Greek texts were the same ones from antiquity. The title 'Received Text' was coined in the 1600s and thus the Latin name Textus Receptus means Received Text. But the source is from the Majority Text of thousands of Greek New Testament manuscripts that exist.

It is what was used for New Testament Bible translations prior to the 1880s, like the 1611 KJV, Bible translations by John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Miles Coverdale, Matthew's Bible, The Great Bible, Geneva Bible, Bishop's Bible, etc.


2. Critical Text, or Eclectic Text -- this is mainly 2 Greek texts, the Codex Vaticanus and the Codes Sinaiticus. The conventional theory is that these Greek texts are the 'oldest and best' Greek New Testament manuscripts, as alleged by the 1800s British scholars Wescott and Hort (abbreviated as W&H). Notice the NKJV is in this group also, simply because it has notes of NU in its margin, showing the Critical Text of the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies was used which included Wescott and Hort's new Greek text.

However, that oldest and best idea of Wescott and Hort was never established as fact, and discovery of newer manuscript evidence even shows the Codex Vaticanus, and the Codex Sinaiticus are not the oldest and best Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

Vaticanus was first discovered in the Vatican library in 1475 with nothing to date any previous origin. The Sinaiticus was first discovered in the 1859 by Tischendorf at St. Catherine's monastery in Greece. Tischendorf, a German rationalist, is who first claimed Sinaiticus is older than the Textus Receptus, without any such evidence. A Greek scholar and paleographer of ancient Greek text named Simonides at the monastery claimed he was assigned to write Sinaiticus (under a different title), and that it was to be presented to the Czar in hopes of getting a donation for a printing press. The translation contained many errors that required repair, and overwrites, making the translation unpresentable. All this means it is a modern work created in the 1840s. The white appearance of the Sinaiticus manuscript also gives away its modern authorship. All the ancient Greek texts show oxidation, turning the document to a bronze color.

The Critical text, plus some pieces of other Greek manuscripts claimed to have been found later, are what the Nestle-Aland and United Bible Societies (UBS) New Testament translations are based upon, making up about 2% of modern New Testament versions, because its main reliance is still upon Wescott and Hort's 1881 new Greek translation.

The modern New Testament translations are based on the Critical Text. NIV, New Living Translation, English Standard Version (ESV), New King James Version (NKJV), Christian Standard Bible (CSB), The Message (MSG), New American Standard Version (NASV). English Revised Version (ERV), New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), World English Bible (WEB), Updated American Standard Version (UASV).

There is not a single version that is written exactly with all the same words for sure. Since the Bible no longer exists, we are dependent on these versions for God's word. Since our relationship with God is dependent on worshiping Him in spirit and truth, then if you are sincere, we can depend on Him to guide you into recognizing His people when they are sent to you. Mat 24:14 Keep in mind however that once He reaches you through those sent disciples, if you reject them, you have rejected His reaching out to you.
 

Davy

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There is not a single version that is written exactly with all the same words for sure. Since the Bible no longer exists, we are dependent on these versions for God's word. Since our relationship with God is dependent on worshiping Him in spirit and truth, then if you are sincere, we can depend on Him to guide you into recognizing His people when they are sent to you. Mat 24:14 Keep in mind however that once He reaches you through those sent disciples, if you reject them, you have rejected His reaching out to you.

You have been lied to. The original Word of God does... exist. And I will doubt anyone's sincerity who thinks differently, because thinking God didn't preserve His Word like He said He would is only trying to create a way to try and change His Word, and that is exactly what modern NT revisers like Wescott and Hort meant with claiming God's Word is not verbally inspired.
 
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Robert Gwin

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You have been lied to. The original Word of God does... exist. And I will doubt anyone's sincerity who thinks differently, because thinking God didn't preserve His Word like He said He would is only trying to create a way to try and change His Word, and that is exactly what modern NT revisers like Wescott and Hort meant with claiming God's Word is not verbally inspired.

I am going to have to ask you to prove that sir, because the entire inhabited earth is unaware of that. Everything we have is copies. Some are quite extensive in age, but if you know where the original writings are, you are very unique Davy.
 
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Davy

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I am going to have to ask you to prove that sir, because the entire inhabited earth is unaware of that. Everything we have is copies. Some are quite extensive in age, but if you know where the original writings are, you are very unique Davy.

You think God's Word is not preserved from the originals having been copied down through the centuries since the time of the Apostles? No wonder you'd say silly things like God's Word doesn't exist.
 

Robert Gwin

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You think God's Word is not preserved from the originals having been copied down through the centuries since the time of the Apostles? No wonder you'd say silly things like God's Word doesn't exist.

God's original word in fact does not exist, and you did not give it's location as I knew you couldn't. Yes I believe God's word is preserved and protected through copies. What convinces me? The translators of the King James Version of the Bible did their utmost to remove God's name, but were unable, however when Jehovah's name became well known throughout the earth, He did allow them to remove it in it's whole, but even in that Jah still occurs several times in those translations.

Yes the truth is out there, and it can be had Dave.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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The translators of the King James Version of the Bible did their utmost to remove God's name

Rubbish!

The name of God is another vanity hotly pursued by vain man.

1. God left it a mystery by not spelling it out in the Old Testament.

2. In the New Testament God, through the Holy Spirit, used the Greek form of “Lord” in Old Testament references to his name.

Nothing to see here.
 

Davy

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God's original word in fact does not exist, and you did not give it's location as I knew you couldn't. Yes I believe God's word is preserved and protected through copies. What convinces me? The translators of the King James Version of the Bible did their utmost to remove God's name, but were unable, however when Jehovah's name became well known throughout the earth, He did allow them to remove it in it's whole, but even in that Jah still occurs several times in those translations.

Yes the truth is out there, and it can be had Dave.

You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about. Spinoza, an orthodox Jew, was one of the first philosophers who denied that God gave Moses to write the first five Books of The Old Testament. He was excommunicated from his synagogue. Many atheistic philosophers have followed his suit of trying to defame the written Word of God, so you're not the first. I suggest that you repent to The LORD, and stop listening to those fanatic philosophers who don't have a clue about what God's Holy Writ is, and its history of being handed down to His people.

God promised His Word would last throughout all generations, and that is especially about His written Word given by The Holy Spirit through His servants.

Ps 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
KJV

Ps 33:11
11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations.
KJV

Ps 117:2
2 For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
KJV

Ps 100:5
5 For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting; and His truth endureth to all generations.
KJV

Isa 59:21
21 As for Me, this is My covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and My words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
KJV

1 Peter 1:25
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
KJV

Matt 24:35
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV
 

Robert Gwin

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Rubbish!

The name of God is another vanity hotly pursued by vain man.

1. God left it a mystery by not spelling it out in the Old Testament.

2. In the New Testament God, through the Holy Spirit, used the Greek form of “Lord” in Old Testament references to his name.

Nothing to see here.

Betcha one thing Mick, you don't have a close friend in whom you don't know his name, and I guarantee you you will not be close to Jehovah without making His name known as our mentor Jesus did, so much so he made it manifest to those closest to him Jn 17:6

Who really is it who don't want you to know Jehovah's name, Jehovah? Ex 9:16
 

Robert Gwin

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You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about. Spinoza, an orthodox Jew, was one of the first philosophers who denied that God gave Moses to write the first five Books of The Old Testament. He was excommunicated from his synagogue. Many atheistic philosophers have followed his suit of trying to defame the written Word of God, so you're not the first. I suggest that you repent to The LORD, and stop listening to those fanatic philosophers who don't have a clue about what God's Holy Writ is, and its history of being handed down to His people.

God promised His Word would last throughout all generations, and that is especially about His written Word given by The Holy Spirit through His servants.

Ps 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
KJV

Ps 33:11
11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations.
KJV

Ps 117:2
2 For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
KJV

Ps 100:5
5 For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting; and His truth endureth to all generations.
KJV

Isa 59:21
21 As for Me, this is My covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and My words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
KJV

1 Peter 1:25
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
KJV

Matt 24:35
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV

Why did you alter Jehovah's name to read LORD Davy?
 

Davy

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Why did you alter Jehovah's name to read LORD Davy?

I know you are a follower of the Jehovah Witness Cult, started by one man named Charles Taze Russel who attempted to supplant much of The Word of God with his own personal Bible studies, even telling his students they don't need a Bible as long as they stay in his personal studies.

Thus as far as I'm concerned, a follower of Charles T. Russel has NO credibility when it comes to speaking on the authority of God's written Word, ESPECIALLY in light of his contact with an evil spirit that put false ideas in his head that Lord Jesus Christ was a created angel, and not God The Son.

As God's Word reveals, through Apostle John especially, those who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh are antichrists...

1 John 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV


What Apostle John is pointing to, and that those who DENY that Jesus is The Christ, are not of God. The Christ is a Heavenly Title that ONLY applies to GOD The Son. It means The Christ is a Person in the triune Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit!

But IF one believes Jesus is just an angel, or just a man and not God in the flesh, then it means they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is "Immanuel" (God with us), having come in the flesh. That is what John was really saying.

Thus you need to come out Babylon (confusion) with the Cult you are following.
 
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marks

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You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about. Spinoza, an orthodox Jew, was one of the first philosophers who denied that God gave Moses to write the first five Books of The Old Testament. He was excommunicated from his synagogue. Many atheistic philosophers have followed his suit of trying to defame the written Word of God, so you're not the first. I suggest that you repent to The LORD, and stop listening to those fanatic philosophers who don't have a clue about what God's Holy Writ is, and its history of being handed down to His people.

God promised His Word would last throughout all generations, and that is especially about His written Word given by The Holy Spirit through His servants.

Ps 12:6-7
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
KJV

Ps 33:11
11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations.
KJV

Ps 117:2
2 For His merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
KJV

Ps 100:5
5 For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting; and His truth endureth to all generations.
KJV

Isa 59:21
21 As for Me, this is My covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and My words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
KJV

1 Peter 1:25
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
KJV

Matt 24:35
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
KJV
Good stuff!!

This is why I think the matter settled. Because I don't think God left all those of a 1000 years or more not have a real Bible.

Much love!
 
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Enoch111

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You simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Let's keep in mind that the Watchtower Bible Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) adopted the critical text of Westcott & Hort (also known as the Nestle, or Nestle-Aland text) and then further corrupted it to conform to their beliefs, e.g. John 1:1.

There is absolutely no question that the critical text -- which supports all modern Bible versions since 1881 -- is based upon the most corrupt Greek manuscripts -- Aleph, A, B, C, and D. And out of those five Aleph (Codex Sinaiticus) and B (Codex Vaticanus) are the two most corrupt and the most relied upon. This was clearly demonstrated by Dean John William Burgon, and supported by Scrivener, Hoskier, etc. But the majority of textual critics swallowed the nonsense of W&H hook-line-and sinker, and continue to do so.
 

Davy

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Let's keep in mind that the Watchtower Bible Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) adopted the critical text of Westcott & Hort (also known as the Nestle, or Nestle-Aland text) and then further corrupted it to conform to their beliefs, e.g. John 1:1.

There is absolutely no question that the critical text -- which supports all modern Bible versions since 1881 -- is based upon the most corrupt Greek manuscripts -- Aleph, A, B, C, and D. And out of those five Aleph (Codex Sinaiticus) and B (Codex Vaticanus) are the two most corrupt and the most relied upon. This was clearly demonstrated by Dean John William Burgon, and supported by Scrivener, Hoskier, etc. But the majority of textual critics swallowed the nonsense of W&H hook-line-and sinker, and continue to do so.

Just like how many Truths have become corrupted in this world supplanted by Satan's lies, like Darwinism and evolution, political correctness of calling good as evil, and evil as good, etc., it simply enforces God's Word that those in Christ are to contend for The Faith which was once delivered to the saints (Jude 3).
 

Robert Gwin

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I know you are a follower of the Jehovah Witness Cult, started by one man named Charles Taze Russel who attempted to supplant much of The Word of God with his own personal Bible studies, even telling his students they don't need a Bible as long as they stay in his personal studies.

Thus as far as I'm concerned, a follower of Charles T. Russel has NO credibility when it comes to speaking on the authority of God's written Word, ESPECIALLY in light of his contact with an evil spirit that put false ideas in his head that Lord Jesus Christ was a created angel, and not God The Son.

As God's Word reveals, through Apostle John especially, those who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh are antichrists...

1 John 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV


What Apostle John is pointing to, and that those who DENY that Jesus is The Christ, are not of God. The Christ is a Heavenly Title that ONLY applies to GOD The Son. It means The Christ is a Person in the triune Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit!

But IF one believes Jesus is just an angel, or just a man and not God in the flesh, then it means they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is "Immaneul" (God with us), having come in the flesh. That is what John was really saying.

Thus you need to come out Babylon (confusion) with the Cult you are following.

Where was God when Jesus was on earth Dave? No sir, those who do not listen and obey Jesus' words will not be on the road to salvation, no matter what cult you belong to. Perhaps you might reveal how God was with us, since most can quote it from the Bible.
 

marks

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Just like how many Truths have become corrupted in this world supplanted by Satan's lies, like Darwinism and evolution, political correctness of calling good as evil, and evil as good, etc., it simply enforces God's Word that those in Christ are to contend for The Faith which was once delivered to the saints (Jude 3).
I see it as a straightfoward attack against God's truth.

Peter foretold this.

2 Peter 3:3-6 KJV
3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Unformitarianism, upon which evolution is founded, is refuted here by Peter as he affirms the cataclysmic history of the earth.

Much love!
 

Davy

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Where was God when Jesus was on earth Dave? No sir, those who do not listen and obey Jesus' words will not be on the road to salvation, no matter what cult you belong to. Perhaps you might reveal how God was with us, since most can quote it from the Bible.

Christianity is NOT a cult, nor is it a religion; it is the Truth.

Religion is what man does to try to make himself appear holy, and is what causes divisions.

The Truth is from The Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit, and has always existed and will always exist. So anyone with even the smallest amount of common sense ought to realize that following God's Truth per His Word is the only Salvation, and His Word shows that God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ and He is the basis of Salvation in God's Word. Anything other than that is man trying to create religion outside God's Truth.
 

Davy

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I see it as a straightfoward attack against God's truth.

Peter foretold this.

2 Peter 3:3-6 KJV
3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Unformitarianism, upon which evolution is founded, is refuted here by Peter as he affirms the cataclysmic history of the earth.

Much love!

We are in the end times for real, and what Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the great falling away, that has long since been in operation for today, and is only going to get worse, with the height of it happening when the pseudo-Christ shows up working great signs and wonders on earth claiming to be Christ.

Many Christian denominations under Modernism use the Critical text, while most Fundamentalists rely on the Textus Receptus (like the KJV). The Modernist movement is Liberal, and relies more on socialist ideas than revealed Christianity per The Bible. That is why they easily accept the Critical text which tends to remove the Deity of Lord Jesus Christ. Some of those in that movement even are avowed Communists.

I suppose I align more with Fundamentalists in regards to basic Christian doctrine, of which believing that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh is one of those very basic Biblical doctrines in God's written Word. Yet I do not see a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory written in God's Word, which still does not make me a Liberal Modernist.

Dr. David Sorenson in his book Broad Is The Way revealed clearly that the liberal Modernist movements in certain Church systems today is aligned with far Leftist doctrines. I wonder if he is aware of Cleon Skousen's 1958 book The Naked Communist where Skousen revealed the Soviet long range goal is to infiltrate the Churches and push socialist religion instead of revealed religion from The Bible.
 
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Candidus

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You have been lied to. The original Word of God does... exist.

A person once wrote... "None of that has ever been proven to be fact though. It was just assumed..."

I agree in this case.