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Featured Omnipresence of God

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by user, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. user

    user Member

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    Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly tells us... "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

    Isaiah 9:6 foretold, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME shall be called Wonderful, counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."


    In discovering the Omnipresence of God, we read:

    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matthew 1:18-23)


    Jesus had a conversation with a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. Speaking with him face to face (here on earth) telling him "I am in heaven"...

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


    Omnipresence has Jesus coming out of the water at the baptism of John, and simultaneously descending like a dove (which was a sign unto John), while speaking from heaven in Matthew 3:16, which was a perfect example of how our one true God can multitask. God does not jump out of one person in Mexico to go and jump into another saved person in France, He is in all saved people at the same time, and was in all three places at that baptism while still being the one omnipresent Spirit which is in heaven...

    Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.


    That same God which spoke to Moses through a burning bush, overshadowed Mary and she conceived a seed. That one spirit simultaneously inhabits that seed AND remains in heaven (omnipresent). When Mary gives birth, we now have SPIRIT become FLESH. That bouncing baby boy is the ALMIGHTY manifest in the flesh. That is how, and why Jesus can say, "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." ... and ... "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."


    Compare the following references:

    The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
    The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:3-10.

    The Lord God said, "I am He." Isaiah 43:10.
    The Lord Jesus said, "I am He." John 8:24.

    The Lord God is the only Saviour. Isaiah 43:10-11.
    The Lord Jesus is the Saviour. Titus 1:4.

    The Lord God shall reign forever. Psalms 146:10.
    The Lord Jesus reign forever. Luke ‪1:33‬.

    The Lord God is the King of Israel. Isaiah 43:15.
    The Lord Jesus is the King of Israel. Matt 27:37.

    The Lord God is the First and the Last. Isaiah 44:6.
    The Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Revelation 1:8.


    Is it possible Jesus is both the Father and the Son? Jesus himself addressed this very question...

    Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? [42] And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [43] Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. [44] David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

    Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? [36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. [37] David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

    Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


    Jesus is the First and the Last.
    He is the Alpha and the Omega.
    He is the Lion and the Lamb.

    When talking with the Jews, he said...

    John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
    [27] They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.


    In the book of John, after the last supper, Jesus has a private conversation with the apostles...

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
    [8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
    [9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;
    [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


    We read that the world cannot see the Holy Spirit, nor does the world know him. Jesus then said "But ye know him". How do the apostles know him? he was not yet sent! Jesus is saying that the one standing here talking to you is the one that will be in you. The one standing here talking to you is the Holy Ghost that will be in you.

    Jesus was on earth, under the ministry of redemption. It was expedient that he must first leave so that the Comforter (Holy Spirit) may come. Jesus had to finish the ministry of Redemption, so that he comes back under a new ministry, that of Regeneration (Jesus in us). And which began on the day of Pentecost and continues to this very day.


    Spirit of Jesus in us:

    Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

    Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
    [16] That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
    [17] That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

    1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
    [20] Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

    1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.



    The following are three different accounts of the very same subject matter, which further shows us that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost...


    Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
    [18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
    [19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
    [20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

    Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
    [10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
    [11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

    Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
    [13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
    [14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
    [15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.


    We indeed serve ONE God. And, he is NOT a trinity.

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    In our understanding of these scriptures we must know that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and that these scriptures declare that He dwells in us by His Spirit; nevertheless He is a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God.

    I believe that He is indeed distinct from the Holy Ghost as Jesus Christ in the flesh; for the Holy Ghost is primarily a Spirit dwelling in our flesh and also filling all things according to Ephesians 4:10; while the 2nd Person of the Trinity dwells in a singular finite human body.

    Yet the 3rd Person of the Trinity is Jesus also and is in some sense the same Person as the 1st and 2nd.

    I may not be able to continue this conversation as I am moving soon and I don't know that I will have internet access where I am moving.

    So I pray that where I leave off, others will join the conversation and even contend as I would for the concept of one God who is one Person and yet three.

    Let me say that the distinction between Father and Son is in that the Father dwells in eternity whereas the Son is the Father come in human flesh and dwells in a finite human body.

    And that the distinction between the Father and the Holy Ghost is that the Holy Ghost has lived the human life of Jesus and therefore understands humanity; whereas the Father has not yet lived a human life.

    They are the same Spirit; for there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4). Yet the Holy Ghost, or, the Spirit of truth, proceeds from the Father (John 15:26).

    The distinction between the Son and the other two members of the Trinity is that the Son is come in the flesh; whereas the Father and the Holy Ghost are primarily Spirit.

    Finally, the last Adam became a life-giving spirit in Luke 23:46; which is not to say that He never returned to His own human body.
     
  3. DNB

    DNB Active Member

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    Just curious user, what are you professing, modalism?
    I do not believe that God is a trinity either, but nor do I believe that Jesus was God, by any stretch of the imagination.
    So, after reading the majority of your post, I'm not sure yet how to regard it, unitarian or modalist?
    Thanks!
     
  4. user

    user Member

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    Thank you for posting on this thread, it is good to hear from you. As you already know, Revelation 17:5 states ... "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

    She is a Mother, therefore there are daughters. History records that a Roman Emperor named Constantine was very instrumental in setting up the First General Council of Churches in 325 A.D., known as the Council of Nicaea. The Church of Rome became the Official Church of the Roman empire with Constantine as its head. This "universal" church with its man made doctrine was established so that EVERY subject of the Empire would belong to the Official Church of the Rome.

    The THREE PERSON DOCTRINE which later evolved and was very clearly defined as such, was purely an orchestrated effort by Constantine designed to appease both the MONOTHEISTS (One God Christians) and the POLYTHEISTS (Multiple god pagans). From a strictly political standpoint, I guess you might say it was a brilliant move. Constantine stopped the persecution of Christians for a while so I don't guess he was all bad. However, the Roman Emperors were responsible for killing and torturing people (Christians) much like that of Hitler's Nazi death camps. The True Church was literally driven underground. As a matter of fact, the May 1976 revised edition of Halley's Bible Handbook reports on pages 761-763 "...the church was regarded as a secret society..."; "...Christians were hunted in cave and forest; they were burned, thrown to wild beasts, put to death by every torture cruelty could devise." "Christian graves are variously estimated at between 2,000,000 and 7,000,000." Papal Persecutions against Protestants in later centuries far out numbered the Early Christian Martyrs under Pagan Rome.

    The daughters are those Denominations that also teach the Trinity. History also proves that the truth about one God was universally preached by the New Testament Church for many years after Christ, until the development of the "trinity" doctrine by the Roman Catholic Church.


    Encyclopedia International, 1975 Edition, Vol.18, p.226 - The doctrine of the "Trinity" did not form part of the apostles' preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.

    New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian’s writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.

    Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol.27, p.69 - The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.

    World Book Encyclopedia, 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

    New International Encyclopedia, Vol.22, p.476 - The Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal - the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took aver the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

    Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol.29, No.18, p.51 - The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY in the Gospels"


    Pluralistic monotheism is a dogmatically held "theory" that is embraced by ALL of the organized (orthodox) denominations and religious organizations, today (including both Catholics and Protestants).

    Again, thank you for posting on this thread. And, I hope your move goes smoothly.

    God Bless!
     
  5. user

    user Member

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    Thank you for your interest, I embrace the Apostles One God Monotheistic Doctrine.

    God Bless!
     
  6. DNB

    DNB Active Member

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    Actually, sorry, your final comment expressed your doctrinal views
    You are professing modalism.

    I personally cannot see, first of all, God becoming man (implausible and blasphemous), and how through this dynamic and logistic, he is able to redeem man?
    Adam disobeyed God, Christ obeyed God and loved Him with all his heart, mind and soul, that's how salvation works. There is no merit or judicial soundness in God obeying and loving himself.
    Be careful what you believe, it says a lot about your esteem for God, in many, many ways.
     
  7. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    And you too...the street runs both ways ...
     
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  8. user

    user Member

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    These scriptures may help...

    1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


    Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
    2] For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
    3] And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
    4] Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
    5] And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
    6] Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
    7] But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
    8] The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
    9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
    10] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

    Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
    12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
    14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
    16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



    Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
    3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
    4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
    5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
    6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
    7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
    10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
    11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
    12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  9. DNB

    DNB Active Member

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    When you hear me say something ludicrous or demeaning to God, you may warn me accordingly.
    I'm not the one who said or implied 'god-man', or that God was slain to redeem man from Himself.
    I have not put myself in such a position.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  10. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Whatever.
     
  11. DNB

    DNB Active Member

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    There is no reputable textual critic who believes that 1 Tim 3:16 say 'God was manifest in the flesh', but rather, 'he who was manifest in the flesh'. Hos was mistaken for a Nomina Sacra.

    Sorry I'm not sure how your significance of Hebrews was intended?

    As in the case of God destroying Sodom, God promised Abraham that if he found ten men who were righteous, he would not annihilate the entire city. Same is the case with Christ, if God could find one man who would obey him, even unto death, and love him with all his heart mind and soul, God will redeem all men for his sake. i.e. make him worthy to abrogate the Law, which held us in bondage and condemned.
    This is why men stand in reverence and submission to Christ. He did the unfathomable, something that was incumbent and feasible for all of us to do, but we refused to. By doing so, he proved Adam guilty (he was the 2nd Adam in this sense), and justified God's condemnation of all men, because of Adam's sin
    Our love and admiration of Jesus is truly merited, and God's justice is sound and admirable.
     
  12. DNB

    DNB Active Member

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    Just saying.
     
  13. user

    user Member

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    Here is the proof of God manifesting Himself to us as a man...

    Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
    Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
    Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
    Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
    Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

    Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  14. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ?
    John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God

     
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  16. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19
     
  17. user

    user Member

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    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
     
  18. user

    user Member

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    I'm not sure what you are saying.
     
  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    but not one ref to Jesus in the whole passage, right? Iow no offense but you added that part yourself!
     
  20. user

    user Member

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    In my OP I referenced John 1:3-10

    I see by your reply that you did not read the entire scripture, which is ok ... I'll post it for you...

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    Whom is this speaking of?
    Of whom did John bear witness?
     
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