Once Saved, Always Saved?

[RR144]

"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..." ​

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ​

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

 

[kcnalp]

I think there will be LOTS of OSASers spending eternity with the Devil who made up the OSAS doctrine.

 

[PinSeeker]

Oh boy, another one...

Yeah, you don't need to be saved more than once. Just once, and then kept by the power of God. Once the Father gives you to Jesus, He loses not one. This is what the Bible ~ Jesus ~ teaches:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
[John 6:37-40]​

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
[1 Peter 1:3-5]​

Grace and peace to you.

 

[kcnalp]

Satan LOVES OSAS! He wants our company in Hell "forever and ever".

 

[RR144]

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him Who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
[John 6:37-40]​

Why did Jesus say, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me”? Although Jesus addressed these words to a mixed multitude, he knew that his ministry would be a success in the final analysis. Thousands followed him from all parts of Israel and the Middle East, but except for a few, they did not continue with him. People listened only up to a point because they had other motivations such as healing, curiosity, and receiving the loaves and the fishes. Consider the lepers: nine of them were thankful they were cleansed, but only the tenth came back to express his appreciation. So here Jesus was saying, “Those who observe my ministry will see multitudes following me and deserting me, following and deserting, etc.” Those who came only for the healing returned to their homes after it was accomplished. Only a relative handful, as it were, became disciples. Therefore, Jesus was saying, “My ministry is a success.” No matter how his ministry was viewed, the few who adhered to his doctrine (compared to the thousands who heard him) were those the Father was “giving” to him—just as intended. Jesus “came unto his own, and [except for the intended few] his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God” (John 1:11,12). In fact, throughout the Scriptures, we see the concept of a remnant. Of all who receive a blessing, only a remnant go on to receive the maximum blessing through consecration and faithfulness unto death. In other words, not all who are drawn of the Father fully appreciate the drawing. It is a miracle to even understand the truth that Jesus is the Messiah. One who does not realize he is being miraculously drawn, and thus fails to act on it, loses the chief promise.

Jesus was exercising faith in his Father, so he did not have to be too concerned about who his followers would be. Some missionaries and ministers get frenzied and anxious in exhorting people to accept Jesus lest they perish, but Jesus was not worried. He knew that out of the multitudes, all whom the Father wanted would come to him.

“Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” Some merely become acquainted with certain doctrines and others truly “come” in a deeper sense. The same distinction applies to hearing. There are two kinds of coming (out of curiosity and out of sincerity) and two kinds of hearing (superficial and obedient). All who are in their graves shall hear the voice of Jesus, but only the right-hearted will hearken in the sense of obedience (John 5:28). As for Jesus’ consecrated followers, these words are very comforting, for regardless of past background and inherent weaknesses, Jesus will not cast out his little ones.

Let's consider Jesus’ words again: “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” Later Jesus explained that he lost none except the “son of perdition” (Judas), yet here and in verse 39, he said he would lose nothing: “And this is the Father’s will ... that ... I should lose nothing.” How can the two thoughts be reconciled? Here Jesus was speaking of a finished work. He will “raise it [the body complete, the 144,000] up again at the last day.” Individuals may end up as Great Company or go into Second Death, but the body will be completed. God’s plan will not fail, and all of the very elect will come through Jesus.

The Apostle John made strong statements, especially in his epistles, that must be considered against the whole. Other verses are buffers or modifiers, and these must be regarded lest false concepts be taught. Here Jesus was saying that he would do his utmost to see that we make our calling and election sure. If anyone fails to obtain the chief prize, he has only himself to blame, for Jesus wants us to succeed. Doubts may occur where we want assurance that we are still under God’s watch-care, but such trials are permitted so that our faith can be developed by exercise. Doubts are necessary to create faith. Opposites create the struggle, and in the struggle, faith is enhanced if we are rightly exercised by the experience. Incidentally, the “son of perdition” is a class, a Second Death class. Judas represents the Second Death element, which is an appreciable number.

Earlier Jesus said that those who believed into him would never hunger or thirst. In verse 40, he supplemented that thought. Even though the Christian seems to die like others, if he is a faithful overcomer as part of the Great Company or the Little Flock, Jesus promised to “raise him up at the last day” to everlasting life. He will die in the present life, but when raised from that death, he will never die again. “Everlasting life” includes the Great Company, the great mass of Christians who are faithful to their covenant. Only the Little Flock will receive immortal life. Those who consecrate can be assured of getting everlasting life if their continuing desire is to do God’s will, but they will not necessarily receive immortality, which is reserved for the more-than-overcomers (Rom. 8:37). John was showing that life itself is a privilege. From the dungeon of despair and misery down here, we have the hope of a high calling—and life. The raising up to everlasting life by Jesus is one plane, but the giving of immortality comes only from the Father—for both Jesus and the Church. Resurrection to spirit nature is one thing, and resurrection from spirit nature to immortality is another. Divine nature will be given later—probably at the marriage—for the Father has some gift to give, in addition to the Son. The Son welcomes the Little Flock members individually and personally first with a “Well done, thou good and faithful servant” (Matt. 25:21). In other words, the personal, private audience with Jesus will occur at the moment of resurrection, before one sees the apostles or any of the other saints. Later Jesus will acknowledge the Bride before the Father.
​

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[Ferris Bueller]

"If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

No, this means being purged from the building of God by fire. It means this person failed to survive the fires of the coming judgment. They were destroyed in the judgment, not saved as genuine believers will be saved through the fire. They were destroyed because at the judgment they were found to be made of that which can not make it through the coming judgment by fire. That's why each of us should be careful how we build the building of God, making sure the people we set in that building are genuine and able to withstand the coming judgment. There's no reward waiting for the laborer who's work in building the building of God gets burned up and revealed to be false, not genuine. So be careful how you build!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No, this means being purged from the building of God by fire. It means this person failed to survive the fires of the coming judgment. They were destroyed in the judgment, not saved as genuine believers will be saved through the fire. They were destroyed because at the judgment they were found to be made of that which can not make it through the coming judgment by fire. That's why each of us should be careful how we build the building of God, making sure the people we set in that building are genuine and able to withstand the coming judgment. There's no reward waiting for the laborer who's work in building the building of God gets burned up and revealed to be false, not genuine. So be careful how you build!

Paul reveals In Romans that we will all be judged by “ his Gospel “ ....that Gospel , given to him by Jesus personally , is Found In 1Cor15:1-4...... Believe it to the point that you REST in it and you will be saved....It’s a Promise from Jesus revealed by Paul.....If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead you are Saved forever or both Paul and Jesus are liars—- not very likely.

Salvation vs.Sanctification are two separate things that many well- intentioned Believers get Confused....it is on display here in this post..

Many foolish and carnal Believers will stand before Jesus on Judgement Day.....they will be scared, “ drawing back”, they will have many “ stripes” on their behinds from years of Chastisement due to foolish disobedient behavior and they will lose the Crown that most Christians will receive because they were glad to see Jesus .....yes, many Believers are gonna be very regretful and sad come Judgement Day , But Like it or not, agree or disagree , if they Believed the Gospel they are gonna be Saved.....these are the people being talked about when it is written that Jesus will “ wipe away their tears”..... be wise......don’t be foolish.....try to live a life where there will be no tears of shame and regret to wipe away....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul reveals In Romans that we will all be judged by “ his Gospel “ ....that Gospel , given to him by Jesus personally , is Found In 1Cor15:1-4...... Believe it to the point that you REST in it and you will be saved....It’s a Promise from Jesus revealed by Paul.....If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead you are Saved forever or both Paul and Jesus are liars—- not very likely.

Yes. The people who Paul says get burned up at the judgement in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 are not believers. They are fake. They aren't made of the 'stuff' that can and will withstand the coming fires of judgment. That's why the laborer in Gods building should be careful how he builds. There's no reward waiting for laborers in God's building who have added fake believers to the building of God who will only get burned up in the judgment because they are fake. He's pointing this out to the Corinthians to show them he has nothing to gain by giving them a false gospel - a gospel of an un-risen savior as the other so-called 'apostles' are doing leaving them unprepared to face the coming judgment.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Salvation vs.Sanctification are two separate things that many well- intentioned Believers get Confused....it is on display here in this post..

It depends on what one means by being saved by works. If it means 'works earn salvation' that person is lost and will not pass through the coming judgment. If it means genuine salvation is marked by the obedience of works they will indeed pass through the coming judgment, their works validating their faith as being genuine and able to 'save' them, which they will at the judgment:

"34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’" Matthew 25:34-36
​

See, Jesus is not describing a 'works earn salvation' gospel in the above passage. He's explaining how the validity and genuiness of one's faith will be measured by the deeds it produces - deeds that prove one's faith in and love for Jesus. A lot of people in the church think that's a works gospel but it surely is not. The life of the person not having any works of righteous love for Christ at the judgment will testify to the fact they do not believe the gospel and they will go to the left to destruction. Just as the life of a person having works of righteous love for Christ will testify to the fact that they do believe the gospel and they will go to the right and into the kingdom of God for all eternity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...yes, many Believers are gonna be very regretful and sad come Judgement Day , But Like it or not, agree or disagree , if they Believed the Gospel they are gonna be Saved.

Yes, they will be. But they will have lives to validate the fact that they believe the gospel. John says the person who does not have a life of righteousness is not born again (1 John 3:9-10). Of course, this does not mean sinless perfection. This means an ever-increasing life of righteous living (2 Peter 1:8). The person who arrives at the judgment in his unchanged life will go to the left and to destruction.

The changed/changing life is how we know we are prepared to face the coming judgement by fire. And so we are exhorted to 'make our calling and election sure' by seeking to validate our faith by doing works of righteousness (2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 6:11). Righteous works, motivated and driven by the fruit of the Spirit, are how we know that we have a genuine faith and are saved and will pass safely through the coming fire and into the kingdom.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Does John 6:37 Teach Calvinist “Predestination”?
By Wayne Jackson

“Please explain John 6:37. Who are those ‘given’ to Christ? Does this mean that they were selected by God before the foundation of the world, and are ‘elected’ — irrespective of their personal obedience?”

The passage under consideration reads as follows:

“All of those whom the Father gives me shall come unto me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out.”

First, the Bible student needs to remind himself of this premise.The Scriptures are the inspired word of God (1 Thes. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).Coming, then, from Jehovah as the ultimate source, they do not contradict themselves; instead, they are perfectly harmonious (Dt. 32:4; 1 Cor. 14:33a).When one encounters a passage, therefore, that may appear to conflict with plain-spoken texts contained elsewhere in Scripture, he must look carefully at the more obscure text and determine if there is a reasonable way to bring it into harmony with the other.

Having said that, let us further emphasize this point. No sacred text must be viewed in any way that would negate the following fundamental truths.

(1) Man has been granted free will (Mt. 23:37b; Jn. 5:39; 7:17; Rev. 22:17).

(2) His salvation is dependent upon his personal acceptance of divine grace, in obedience to the requirements of the gospel of Christ (2 Thes. 1:7-9; Heb. 5:8-9; 1 Pet. 4:17).

To suggest that God, before the world’s foundation, chose certain ones to be saved, and others to be lost, independent of a personal reception of truth, is a doctrine that cannot be sustained by the Scriptures — regardless of the number of sincere people who subscribe to it.

There are several crucial questions that must be addressed in connection with John 6:37.
--When did the “giving” of certain people to the Son take place?
--In what sense does the Father “give” these people to his Son?
--What relationship does the “giving” bear to their “coming” to him?
--And, what is the significance of the promise, “I will in no wise cast out”?

Let us take each of these in order.

(3) When did the “giving” take place? The idea that believers were unconditionally “given” to Christ, in the eternal counsel of God before the foundation of the world, is negated by this very passage. The verb “gives” (didosin) is a present tense form, indicating action in progress; the Father, at that very time, was in the process of giving certain ones to his Son. This passage cannot possibly be employed, then, to establish a “done-deal” gift back in pre-world eternity.As Reynolds noted, “‘The giving’ implies a present activity of grace, not a foregone conclusion” (17, p. 201).

(4) In what sense did God “give” people to his Son? The terms “gift” and “given” are frequently employed idiomatically in the Scriptures to denote divine favor as expressed in Heaven’s redemptive work on man’s behalf — without there being any inclination of an “unconditional election.”

For example, David prophesied that Jehovah would “give” the “nations” (Gentiles) to Christ as an inheritance (Psa. 2:8; cf. Acts 4:25-26). Surely no one will contend that all Gentiles were unconditionally predestined to salvation irrespective of their response to divine truth. Even the most cursory examination of the book of Acts, from chapter 10 onward, reveals that the Gentiles were admitted into redemptive favor by yielding to the requirements of the gospel. Salvation was not as a consequence of an eternal decree independent of human obedience (cf. Acts 10:34-35,43; 11:14; 15:8-9; 1 Pet. 1:22-23).

(5) What relationship is there between the “giving” and the “coming” in John 6:37? There is a significant connection. The “giving” represents what God has provided in the great plan of human salvation; the “coming” represents the acceptation of that plan as manifested in the sinner’s obedience.

The subsequent context affords a wonderful illustration of this — with slightly different imagery, but with corresponding thought.Note the language of verses 44-45.

“No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one who has heard from the Father, and has learned, comes unto me.”

In this passage, God’s “drawing” is parallel to his “giving” of verse 37.And yet, clearly in vv. 44-45 the drawing is accomplished by hearing his word, learning, and coming to the Lord.Jehovah provides the redemptive information, but humanity must access it. By a comparison of these passages, therefore, one may logically conclude that this is how men are “given” to Christ as well. As Bloomfield once observed, “The term [gives] therefore (here and at ver. 39 and 65) must signify something compatible with the free agency of man” (I, p. 363).

When former Baptist minister Robert Shank issued his book, Life in the Son, it produced shock waves among Calvinists. Professor William Adams of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary characterized the book as “one of the most arresting and disturbing books” he had ever read (p. xiii). In this instructive volume, Shank has a special Appendix, “Whom Does the Father Give to Jesus?” in which he discusses this very passage. Therein the author fires this parting blast:

“There is nothing about God’s gift of believers to be the heritage of the Son who died for them which somehow transforms the Gospel’s ‘whosoever will’ into a ‘whosoever must’ and a ‘most of you shan’t.‘ There is nothing about it which binds men in the strait jacket of an antecedent decree of positive unconditional election and reprobation, while insisting that they are ’free’” (p. 339).

(6) Our final question is this: “What is the meaning of the affirmation, ‘I will in no wise cast out’?” Some allege it suggests the dogma of the impossibility of apostasy, i.e., that no one “given” to Christ in the eternal scheme of things could ever be lost. The child of God, therefore, can never fall from grace — or so it is claimed.

The passage does not even remotely suggest this pernicious doctrine. Even Albert Barnes, who subscribed to the Calvinistic doctrine of the impossibility of apostasy (see his comment at Matthew 7:23), conceded the following, with reference to John 6:37b. “This expression does not refer to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, but to the fact that Jesus will not reject or refuse any sinner who comes to him” (pp. 246-247).

This admission, combined with the scriptural declarations that God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9), and that “whosoever will” may come to Christ, are death blows to the theory that some were chosen by God for salvation, and others for damnation, before the world began.Perhaps no dogma has ever been so misguided.

Works Cited
Barnes, Albert (1954), “Luke — John,” Notes on the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker).
Bloomfield, S.T. (1837), The Greek Testament with English Notes (Boston: Perkins & Marvin).
Reynolds. H.R. (1950), “The Gospel of John,” The Pulpit Commentary, H.D.M. Spence, Joseph Exell, Eds. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans).
Shank, Robert (1961), Life in the Son (Springfield, MO: Westcott).
Does John 6:37 Teach Calvinist "Predestination"?

(my emp)

 

[PinSeeker]

Man has been granted free will (Mt. 23:37b; Jn. 5:39; 7:17; Rev. 22:17).

Yes, God gave us all brains...

His salvation is dependent upon his personal acceptance of divine grace...

No, but rather, as Paul says, "it (God's election of certain individuals to salvation) depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy" (Romans 9:16). Otherwise, grace ~ which is unmerited favor ~ is not really grace. And this is precisely what Paul says shortly thereafter, saying, "...if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace" (Romans 11:6). We should note here that Paul in no way refutes free will; he does absolutely nothing of the sort. But he does say that our salvation doesn't depend on it ~ doesn't depend on our will or working ~ but on God's election.

To suggest that God, before the world’s foundation, chose certain ones to be saved, and others to be lost, independent of a personal reception of truth, is a doctrine that cannot be sustained by the Scriptures..."

To suggest that God did not choose certain ones to be saved before the world's foundation is to refute the following:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved." (Ephesians 1:3-6)​

And as I have said, once we are found ~ this is the work of God, Who began a good work in us and will bring it to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6) ~ we cannot be lost again. To suggest that we can is to refute (or at least not believe) what Jesus Himself says:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)​

As Paul says, continuing from above:

"In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory" (Ephesians 1:4-14)​

And then in the very next breath, essentially, Paul says:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:4-10)​

And Peter puts it this way:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith ~ more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire ~ may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen Him, you love Him. Though you do not now see Him, you believe in Him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:3-9)​

Once we are found by God and placed in Christ, we cannot be lost by God. As Paul says in Colossians 3, once we are saved, our very lives are "hidden with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3).

The very question, "Does John 6:37 Teach Calvinist Predestination?" is misguided even in and of itself. It comes from a terrible misunderstanding of how Calvin understood the clear Biblical teaching of predestination. God doesn't predestine our brain activity (John Calvin never suggested such a thing), but rather the state of our heart at any point in time and whether we are or will be in Christ. He decides who He will give to Christ ~ who He will give a new heart, within whom He will put a new spirit, for whom He will remove the heart of stone from his flesh and give a heart of flesh, whom He will put His Spirit within (Ezekiel 36:26-27) ~ and, necessarily, by exclusion, who/whom He will not. This is His right as potter (Creator), and this is exactly what Paul says in Romans 9:

"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:19-24)
​

Hallelujah! Praise be to God. To Him alone be the glory!

Grace and peace to all.

 

[GEN2REV]

God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. ... Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion.

Amen.

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour.

Amen.

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger.

Unfortunately, I believe it's actually very frequent, especially in this day and age. Thus, we have:

Matthew 7:22-23
Hosea 4:6
2 Thessalonians 2:10
John 15:2
John 15:6

Nice post.

 

[ScottA]

"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..." ​

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ​

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

There are a few things that should not be misunderstood...although they commonly are:

• James was not exactly saying that faith without works is dead, as many understand it. But rather, he simply stated a fact, that faith results in good works...and if not, such a person has died. Which is not to say that there is a kind of faith that is exempt from good works, but rather that one who is dead is exempt. He only equates faith with life, and not with death. This is completely different than what many preach, taking up the words as a sword.

• Hebrews 6:4 "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit", does not only speak of those who are "saved" as having the Holy Spirit. But rather, it speaks of "partakers" of the Holy Spirit-- which includes many who have no part with the Holy Spirit, except that they were moved by the Spirit as was foretold by Joel the prophet, saying that God would pour out His spirit upon "all flesh", all not being good or of God. Which is the power of God, "to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life." Giving those who were "partakers" no excuse, having seen the workings of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To suggest that God did not choose certain ones to be saved before the world's foundation is to refute the following:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world

"in Him"

Key.

 

[marks]

James was not exactly saying that faith without works is dead, as many understand it. But rather, he simply stated a fact, that faith results in good works...and if not, such a person has died. Which is not to say that there is a kind of faith that is exempt from good works, but rather that one who is dead is exempt. He only equates faith with life, and not with death. This is completely different that what many preach, taking up the words as a sword.

Well stated!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hebrews 6:4 "For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit", does not only speak of those who are "saved" as having the Holy Spirit. But rather, it speaks of "partakers" of the Holy Spirit-- which includes many who have no part with the Holy Spirit, except that they were moved by the Spirit as was foretold by Joel the prophet, saying that God would pour out His spirit upon "all flesh", all not being good or of God. Which is the power of God, "to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life." Giving those who were "partakers" no excuse, having seen the workings of God.

Speaking of those who saw Jesus, heard His teaching, were healed by His miracles, were fed by the fishes and loaves, who heard the Father speak from heaven, who saw the lame walk and the blind see, there are many ways the heavenly gift is given, shared in, but not received into the heart.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yes, they will be. But they will have lives to validate the fact that they believe the gospel. John says the person who does not have a life of righteousness is not born again (1 John 3:9-10). Of course, this does not mean sinless perfection. This means an ever-increasing life of righteous living (2 Peter 1:8). The person who arrives at the judgment in his unchanged life will go to the left and to destruction.

The changed/changing life is how we know we are prepared to face the coming judgement by fire. And so we are exhorted to 'make our calling and election sure' by seeking to validate our faith by doing works of righteousness (2 Peter 1:10, Hebrews 6:11). Righteous works, motivated and driven by the fruit of the Spirit, are how we know that we have a genuine faith and are saved and will pass safely through the coming fire and into the kingdom.

I believe change will occur.....I just maintain that it does not “ have” to occur....

“Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ and PROVE that you do by doing good works and thou shalt be Saved” just isn’t in the KJV......

I wonder how much the Thief on the Cross “changed”

Good works should flow NATURALLY from a Believer—- Anything That “ we” do to get Saved, Stay Saved or Prove That we “are” Saved is a dead work...

Fruit from a tree occurs naturally.....we don’t have to grab it by the trunk and shake it violently back and forth and yell at it and COMMAND it to “PRODUCE ...PRODUCE!!”.....

Believe the Gospel of1Cor15 :1-4....that will get the Holy Spirit in you and let God Work “ through” you—- THAT is the ultimate goal of Christianity .....in the end, it is NOT what “ you” do.....it’s what God does “ Through” you......

 

[Titus]

No free will if one cannot choose to turn away from God after initial salvation.
No free will if one cannot by their own will chose to believe in Christ or reject Him.

Which position does the Bible teach?
John 7:17
If(conditional) anyone wills to do His will, he shall know, concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

"Anyone wills" includes All.
All have a will.
A will gives the ability to do His will.
If No will (Pinseekers teaching) then no ability to do His will.
This verse alone proves the Bible teaches all have freewill.

Revelation 22:17 ....and whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Folks, whosoever means any person! any person who desires can take of the water of life freely. God does not force His will on anybody. Therefore freewill exists.

 

[ScottA]

Speaking of those who saw Jesus, heard His teaching, were healed by His miracles, were fed by the fishes and loaves, who heard the Father speak from heaven, who saw the lame walk and the blind see, there are many ways the heavenly gift is given, shared in, but not received into the heart.

Much love!

Indeed...and the miracles continue, great where things are simple, but obscured in many places by the increase of knowledge. Imagine an iron horse seen for the first time--the sky may as well have opened up. But now, a man drops his phone and never knows if he was saved from being hit by a bus. Either way, there is no excuse.