Ongoing Inner Conflict

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Netchaplain

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It is essential that we take a moment to consider the inward conflict of the growing child of God. It may be said, “What if a man knows his sins to be forgiven and more, liberty” (which some call “sanctification,” “deeper life,” etc.), “then, surely, every spiritual desire must be gratified, and thenceforward, till heaven be gained, there can be nothing more to be wished for it.

In things spiritual, as in things natural, when children have grown up to manhood, to ripe age, or, as Scripture says, are “perfect” (1Co 13:10, 11), they do not find that thenceforward there is nothing to do, nothing to suffer. Quite the contrary; in one sense they may be said to begin life only when perfect (mature—NC). Until the great and terrible “I” be held by grace to have been crucified with Christ, the believer can hardly be said to have begun to live the new life in its liberty (possessing salvation but not yet overcoming the “old man’—NC); but liberty obtained, inner conflict is certain to be entered into.

Before we were brought into Christian liberty, the enabling of the indwelling Spirit was not known, but, being delivered from the thrall of the old man, we are in the moral position which should gain the victory day by day. Not that the position itself is victory—it is only the vantage ground for victory; freedom from the domination of sin is obtained by the Spirit (Rom 8:13). Still, it is no little good to know what the vantage ground is, and a greater thing to occupy that ground.

The Spirit of God dwelling within us energizes the desire of the new life which He has implanted in us. He leads to humility, gentleness, and courage, and all in a divine way. We do not mean such qualities apart from the Spirit, which in that case may be merely traits of the Adamic life (the old man mimicking holiness but not genuine—NC).

When our old man stirs us up to desire its old things, the Spirit of God does not remain passive in us, but occasions conflict within: “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” (Gal 5:17). He restrains the believer from doing the things which the flesh likes, and constrains him to do the things which the Father loves, and effects this by acting upon the new man (Eph 3:16). The believer is not, and never will be, free from having sin in him in this world; nor will he be free from the danger of committing any kind of evil: and he is never, practically, safe except when he realizes his weakness, and walks in dependence upon the Holy Spirit (ever safe in salvation, but in need of growth—NC).

Should he say, “I cannot help doing evil,” then he denies the Spirit of God in him as the enablement for righteous living, and remains in the mire of sin. Should he say, “I am holy, or spiritual, or heavenly,” and in his heart think of what he is in himself (halted on the thought of being a sinner—NC), then it is the old man at work in another and more dangerous form, and he has denied the Spirit of God in His ability to produce spirituality, and heavenly-mindedness. This last is worse than the first, for the first is unbelief in God and the last is belief in himself (Gal 6:3—NC). The truth is, there is constant conflict proceeding within the growing child of God, and the Spirit is continually restraining from evil, as well as leading to good (retaining salvation while growing in Christ (Eph 4:15—NC).


The flesh in its pride would say, “I can live to God by means of law-keeping and religious observances”; and the flesh in its lusts would say, “I am safe for eternity, and thus can live for myself.” The new life the Father has given us has no affinity for either the one or the other of these evils, and the Spirit of God opposes the flesh in each.


– Henry Forbes Witherby (1836-1907)





MJS daily devotional excerpt for Oct 20

“Faith is dependence upon the Father. And this God-dependence only begins when self-dependence ends. And self-dependence only comes to its end, with most of us, when sorrow, suffering, affliction, broken plans and hopes bring us to that place of self-helplessness where we throw ourselves upon our Father in seeming utter helplessness and defeat. And only then do we find that we have learned the lesson of faith; to find our tiny craft of life rushing onward to a blessed life of fruitfulness and service undreamt of in the days of our fleshly strength and self-reliance.”—Charles Henry Mackintosh (1820-1896)
 
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Behold

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Your Thread is typical of a carnal believer's Theology, who has continual flesh issues, and who is not a real student regarding the Epistles of Paul who teaches that you can live free from sin and the desire to sin.
So, according to your THREAD.......and POSTS......You dont know anything about this at all, and your "writers'" that you cut and paste....are no different, ive noticed.


Paul teaches the opposite of what you teach.
So what does that make you "NetChaplin"?
= Exactly the opposite of Paul....., and you would do well to invest some time in reading something other than deceptive commentaries that will keep you sinning and confessing and unable to stop.....(as your Thread is suggesting, teaching.).

Ive noticed that a lot of heretics, love to post this.....that Paul wrote.

= "that which i dont want to do, i do, and that which i want to do, i cant'"

For some reason, carnal heretics LOVE that part of Paul's epistle, while they never read or post about what he continues to teach.
As if you had studied more, NetChaplin..... you would have discovered that Paul does not stay in that situation, that you are in..
Not at all.
He moved ON, and ended up here...

= "CHRIST ALWAYS...= gives me the VICTORY" over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil.

See that part?
That is the main part of Paul's Teaching that continued PAST, the "i can't do it"......and HERETICS never read that part and never post about that part., as you know.
They always STOP with the "i can't " and never ever do they continue to study what Paul continues to teach..

= "Christ ALWAYS gives me the VICTORY".


So, NetChaplin, does that sound like Paul is struggling with the flesh issue you have, and that your commentary authors are dealing with?

A.) NOPE

You should think about that more, before you post more offense to the Grace of God on a public forum, that tries to turn the Victory found in Christ, into some low level carnal discipleship theology.
 

Netchaplain

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Your Thread is typical of a carnal believer's Theology, who has continual flesh issues, and who is not a real student regarding the Epistles of Paul who teaches that you can live free from sin and the desire to sin.
So, according to your THREAD.......and POSTS......You dont know anything about this at all, and your "writers'" that you cut and paste....are no different, ive noticed.
I will have to take this in, because there is too much false insinuation. I'm assuming you're use to making false accusations. The main problem is I don't even know what you are accusing.
 

Behold

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I will have to take this in, because there is too much false insinuation. I'm assuming you're use to making false accusations.

I didn't imply or insinuate.
I stated clear direct facts regarding the theology you posted as your THread.

Let me show you.. again.

Today....You went to at least 3 "christian forums" and posted the same Thread as found on this one.
IN it, you and your "teacher", your commentary writer, stated that Paul is stuck in : "that which i want to do i cant".
And He is not....but you obviously are, as that is where you LEFT His Theology.
You didn't complete it.
THat is what i wrote, and now i just wrote it again.
Read me?
That is not an insinuation, nor a false accusation.....it is a simple FACT regarding your Thread's POV.

Your Thread teaches a false theology, whereby you state that the inner conflict that a believer has with their flesh and their wrong desires is a constant issue..... lifelong.

Paul teaches the Opposite...
HE says that Christ in Him, lives Holiness through Him...........and that is why he does not have issues as you state you have, and that all believers must have, so you teach.
And like i told you, had you put down the commentary and did some real bible study, you would have found that Paul teaches : "Christ Always GIVES ME THE VICTORY"...

That is not a Struggle with sin............that is not an inner fight committed endlessly ............that is a DELIVERANCE from all that, ...while YOU and your commentary TEACH that all believers have to suffer that, endlessly.

A.) Not so.
B.) Not true.

God did not come down here to die on the Cross, to provide you with an inescapable flesh issue., as you teach.
God came here to take us out of that carnal mind and out of the world system that drives it to lust.
Understand?

Paul told you.......>"as many as be PERFECT"...... and that is not a believer who is "inner conflicting"... 24/7, as you teach.

Paul told you... that you are to become the "fullness of the stature of CHRIST".......while on EARTH........and that does not include trying to stop an inner conflict and a slavery to the flesh situation, that never ends, as you teach, NetChaplin.

"""Victory in CHRIST"", as Paul teaches......is not about trying to be good, and trying to strive against the old nature, as you teach., NetChaplin.... and as i have now pointed out to you clearly, once again..., with no insinuation or false accusation.

Im happy to do it for you a 3rd 4th, or 20th time if you need it to help you get the message right.
You can decide that for yourself.
 

Netchaplain

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I didn't imply or insinuate.
I stated clear direct facts regarding the theology you posted as your THread.

Let me show you.. again.

Today....You went to at least 3 "christian forums" and posted the same Thread as found on this one.
IN it, you and your "teacher", your commentary writer, stated that Paul is stuck in : "that which i want to do i cant".
I post my materials on 12 sites, and I type them up because they are out of print, being 3-400 years old. Plus, I don't know where you get that I mention anything about Paul's dichotomy ("that which i want to do i cant"). You need to let me know what you are talking about. I think you are misunderstanding my article, in which case there's not much I can tell you. God bless!
 

Behold

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I post my materials on 12 sites, and I type them up because they are out of print, being 3-400 years old.



Your Thread teaches a false theology, whereby you state that the inner conflict that a believer has with their flesh and their wrong desires is a constant issue..... lifelong.

Paul teaches the Opposite...
HE says that Christ in Him, lives Holiness through Him...........and that is why he does not have issues as you state you have, and that all believers must have, so you teach.
And like i told you, had you put down the commentary and did some real bible study, you would have found that Paul teaches : "Christ Always GIVES ME THE VICTORY"...

That is not a Struggle with sin............that is not an inner fight committed endlessly ............that is a DELIVERANCE from all that, ...while YOU and your commentary TEACH that all believers have to suffer that, endlessly.

A.) Not so.
B.) Not true.

God did not come down here to die on the Cross, to provide you with an inescapable flesh issue., as you teach.
God came here to take us out of that carnal mind and out of the world system that drives it to lust.
Understand?

Paul told you.......>"as many as be PERFECT"...... and that is not a believer who is "inner conflicting"... 24/7, as you teach.

Paul told you... that you are to become the "fullness of the stature of CHRIST".......while on EARTH........and that does not include trying to stop an inner conflict and a slavery to the flesh situation, that never ends, as you teach, NetChaplin.

"""Victory in CHRIST"", as Paul teaches......is not about trying to be good, and trying to strive against the old nature, as you teach.
 
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Netchaplain

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Your Thread teaches a false theology, whereby you state that the inner conflict that a believer has with their flesh and their wrong desires is a constant issue..... lifelong.
Now I can understand you. But there's no sense in debating whether we still sin or not, if you don't understand that we still sin. It's just that we are no longer guilty of sin, and it cannot dominate us (Ro 6:14), that is, it can no longer cause us to desire sin, and this is where the primary issue lies, never wanting sin; and it's not willful but impulsive, big difference. Thankfully regardless of what one believes about this issue, we are forever forgiven, if we are reborn.
 

Behold

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Now I can understand you. But there's no sense in debating whether we still sin or not, if you don't understand that we still sin.


First you say you dont understand what i told you in previous posts, and now you just posted a response that isn't even related to your Thread or to my posts.

Im not sensing any honesty, so, maybe you can try again NC?

Listen....

You posted that a Christian will continue to have inner conflict with their Flesh... for life.
Remember?
That's your Thread's TITLE...= POV and Theology.
Remember it?
You should, as you posted it.

See, you taught only a part of what Paul teaches about this, as if that is the final answer., and that is the deception you are teaching, as i told you now for the 3rd time in 3 posts.
And that is the issue, as what you taught isn't the REST of what Paul teaches., yet it is what heretics always teach.
The deception you are cut and pasting on 13 other Forums....., is that the Christian is going to continue to exist in inner conflict with their flesh and their lust.
That is your THREAD, and its a deception, and i explained it to you, previously.

Paul continues and completes the teaching... and you didnt......
Paul's understanding and revelation is , that the born again are NOT to exist in that inner conflict that you have an issue with, based on your THREAD's concept.

Paul teaches that the believer, CAN exist in VICTORY over sin, over flesh.......and NOT live in the "inner conflict" = carnal Christianity that YOU and your "writings", would have as their discipleship.
 

Netchaplain

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First you say you dont understand what i told you in previous posts, and now you just posted a response that isn't even related to your Thread or to my posts.

Im not sensing any honesty, so, maybe you can try again NC?
I wouldn't communicate with one who is not honest.
 

Behold

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that is, it can no longer cause us to desire sin, rever forgiven, if we are reborn.

If, as you say, that sin's domination can no longer cause us to desire sin, then why would you write a Thread that talks about the unending "inner conflict" that is related to wanting to sin....., and use only a out of context part of Paul's verses to try to prove it?
 

Behold

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I wouldn't communicate with one who is not honest.

I do it all the time for the sake of the other members on many forums who can be harmed by this very type of carnal devil.
I communicate with them constantly regarding the deception that they post, that tries to mislead and harm REAL believers.
 

Netchaplain

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I do it all the time for the sake of the other members on many forums who can be harmed by this very type of carnal devil.
I communicate with them constantly regarding the deception that they post, that tries to mislead and harm REAL believers.
I don't think there are any who deliberately try to deceive others on any of the Christian sites.
 

Netchaplain

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If, as you say, that sin's domination can no longer cause us to desire sin, then why would you write a Thread that talks about the unending "inner conflict" that is related to wanting to sin....., and use only a out of context part of Paul's verses to try to prove it?
No one reborn desires to sin, but they know the old man still causes us to sin. But it's sinning impulsively, like anger, jealousy, envy, etc., not "willfully" (Num 15:25, 30; Heb 10:26).
 

marks

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No one reborn desires to sin, but they know the old man still causes us to sin. But it's sinning impulsively, like anger, jealousy, envy, etc., not "willfully" (Num 15:25, 30; Heb 10:26).
Galatians 5:16-18 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Certainly the answer is to walk in the Spirit, however, the Bible never indicates nor teaches that the conflict between Spirit and flesh ceases for as long as our bodies remain as they are, that is, not yet transformed to incorruptible.

As always, I appreciate your posts!

Much love!
 
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Gottservant

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It is essential that we take a moment to consider the inward conflict of the growing child of God. [...]

In things spiritual, [...] liberty obtained, inner conflict is certain to be entered into. [...]
This inspired me to take on a greater struggle in the Holy Spirit - living more for God, as I approach greater age.

This is putting the flesh to death. This is yielding to the Spirit.
 

Behold

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I don't think there are any who deliberately try to deceive others on any of the Christian sites.

Then you've apparently not had any experience talking to Atheist's on a "christian" site.

Also,

The nature of deception, is that you would not know that you are deceived or that you are being deceived.
As, if you knew it, you would end it.
So, for the most part, people who teach Legalism and Hyper-Calvanism, and other such anti-Cross theology, or people who choose to always post other people's writings, like you do...... they are not out to deceive, but that does not stop them from harming real believers with the false theology that they are presenting.
 

Netchaplain

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Then you've apparently not had any experience talking to Atheist's on a "christian" site.

Also,

The nature of deception, is that you would not know that you are deceived or that you are being deceived.
As, if you knew it, you would end it.
So, for the most part, people who teach Legalism and Hyper-Calvanism, and other such anti-Cross theology, or people who choose to always post other people's writings, like you do...... they are not out to deceive, but that does not stop them from harming real believers with the false theology that they are presenting.
I haven't encountered anyone that posts regularly that claimed to be an atheist; and those reborn cannot ultimately be deceived (Mat 24:24), for God ensures their salvation. It's only the hypocrites and apostates that are deceived.
 

Behold

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I haven't encountered anyone that posts regularly that claimed to be an atheist; and those reborn cannot ultimately be deceived (

Do you own a bible that you read?
If so, its amazing that you wrote that the reborn can't be deceived.
You are deceived if you believe that, NetChaplain.
Listen.

The GALATIANS, ..........
Are you aware of a Pauline epistle "Galatians"?
You've never read it apparently, as in that epistle there are born again Christians, who are "fallen from Grace".
They are DECEIVED, Paul writes....
There are many people on this very forum, who are Christians who believe that WATER saves them.
They are DECEIVED.
There are millions of Christians in this world, who believe that God only saves the ELECT, and that humans have no free will to trust in Christ.
THey are DECEIVED.

You're a Calvinist, and depending on the amount of mind control that John Calvin's doctrine has on your mind, will be the percent you are deceived by Him.
 

Netchaplain

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You've never read it apparently, as in that epistle there are born again Christians, who are "fallen from Grace".
Only those who continue in salvation are reborn. If you permanently leave salvation behind and stop professing it, it shows all you left was a profession of grace, and not a possession of grace.
 

Behold

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Only those who continue in salvation are reborn.

Salvation is Jesus on the Cross.,...it's not you trying to be like Christ.
Philippians 1:6 says that God is faithful to complete your salvation.
Hebrews 12:2, says that Jesus finishes/perfects your faith.
So, if God hss given you "the GIfT of Salvation", then yo have it, which is WHY you are born again.
Being born again, is the PROOF you have Salvation.