OSAS is now teaching faith with works, and not faith alone.

[robert derrick]

"There is no such thing as faith alone. It is a misnomer used by workers for salvation to support their works based theology. We are saved by GRACE alone through FAITH alone. But faith is never alone."

This is just classic sophistry, but it works.

First, there is such a thing as believers in faith alone, because they are rebuked by Scripture in James 2.

However, now we have a faith alone believer trying to redefine faith alone that saves, as faith that is never indeed alone.

Since saving and justifying faith is now declared never alone, then what does Scripture say makes faith unalone?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

God says only works makes faith not to be alone and dead, so that the only faith alone that can save and justify a man, is only that faith that has works and so is not alone: we are thus saved only by that faith with works, that is never alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Not only are we saved by faith with works, not being indeed alone, but we are only justified by continuing in that faith that always has works, and is never alone.

Therefore, the truth of Ephesians 2:8 is:

For by grace are ye saved only through that faith that is with works, not being alone and dead.

So long as the good works are seen by God and man, then so does that faith with good works save and justify any man. Until faith has works, it is unsaving faith that is indeed alone.

 

[robert derrick]

I can now finally and gladly agree with that form of OSAS, that teaches any faith that is alone, is not the one and only faith with works and not never alone, that saves and justifies any man.

Now if some OSAS believer says there is something other than works, that makes their faith alone nor alone, then it would be an interesting doubling down on stupid delusional sophistry, but of course would be rejected out of hand as now corrupting James 2:17 along with 2:24.

 

[The Learner]

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[robert derrick]

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[PinSeeker]

It is God who justifies (Romans 8:33). And this is not because of our good works, but rather solely based on the will of God. And upon this once and for all justification, it is God Who gives this gift of saving faith and works it in the person once they are born of the Spirit ~ faith itself is a gift of the Spirit (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12). And this is what produces good works in the believer (James 2). He is then a new creation (2 Corinthians 5), created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that the born-again Christian would walk in them (Ephesians 2). So the proper teaching is, good works because of faith.

This is not hard to understand, but certainly willfully ignored by some.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Sadly,

Instead of making Ephesians 2 and Romans 4 and Titus 3 agree with James 2. the op wants to make James 2 contradict the other three passages. and not only Make paul a liar, but make the NT null and void. as any scripture that can not agree is no scripture at all.

 

[Behold]

"There is no such thing as faith alone.

Abraham is the father of our faith.

The Cross of Christ is only available to be received by Faith.

Salvation is "Justified by FAITH" "without works".

Any other Grace denying Theology, such as yours Robert, is an insult to the Cross.

 

[robert derrick]

OSAS now teaches salvation by faith with works, and not by faith alone, because they now say the faith that saves, is never alone.

And the only way for faith to not be alone in Scripture, is by faith being with works in order not to be alone.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

They want themselves to be saved by faith alone without any works, but they don't want their faith alone to be dead without works, and so they just decide to now declare their saving faith alone is not alone, but still without works.

And since James 2:17 plainly shows the only faith, that is not alone and dead, is faith with works, then they find themselves in another silly impossibility.

The question is why don't they just corrupt the Scripture of James 2:17, like they already have with those of 2:14 & 17?

Instead the usual OSAS suspects come out once again to scream and holler about something, without ever addressing the actual point made.

The three ring circus of OSAS is more and more funny to watch, and less and less bothersome to argue with, because I think even Behold! is run out of knew deep secrets to reveal.

 

[Behold]

OSAS now teaches salvation by faith with works,.

Heretics teach OSAS.

Believers teach "The righteousness of God, in Christ" = born again.

 

[PinSeeker]

I think we need to understand ~ yet again ~ what exactly this 'faith' is. Fortunately, the Holy Spirit defines this word that we translate to the English 'faith' for us; it is "the assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). The main point here is that this faith cannot be manufactured by us, as we cannot assure or convict ourselves. If this assurance and conviction was of ourselves, it would be empty at best... quite literally a wish. No, this assurance and conviction comes from outside of us, from someone outside of us ~ Someone (capital 'S'), actually... God, as Ephesians 2:4-10 says, "so that no one may boast," and it is the Holy Spirit specifically Who convicts, as Jesus says in John 16:7-8. But now, since it has been given to us, it results in an outpouring of many things from us, including good works. If these things never manifest themselves, then there is no assurance or conviction. So we see that good works (among other things) are the result of ~ the outward evidence of ~ this assurance and conviction ~ faith ~ God has given us. And as Paul says:

"...at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace... if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace." (Romans 11:5-6)​

This is the distinction to be made, that it is not that good works are not a part of salvation or essential to it ~ or that they are somehow not necessary to our salvation ~ but only that good works are not the basis for our salvation.

But back to the point... what God has given, He will never take away. "The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable," as Paul says in Romans 11:29. "His steadfast love endures forever" and "He will never leave or forsake us" (over and over and over again through the Psalms). God is truly faithful, and once He has begun a good work in us, He will ~ will, not "might" ~ bring it to completion at the Day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).

Quite frankly, it is astounding that any Christian can read any part of the Bible and not see and understand the eternal security in Christ that we have been given, as it literally drips from every page. Thanks be to God. To Him be the glory forever and ever.

Grace and peace to you all.

 

[PinSeeker]

OSAS now teaches salvation by faith with works...

Nope. See above (post #10). Try again...

Grace and peace to you!

 

[PinSeeker]

Heretics teach OSAS.

Believers teach "The righteousness of God, in Christ" = born again.

Hm. Strange. If "heretics teach OSAS" as you say, Behold, but "OSAS" teaches what you say believers teach here, then... something seems quite amiss in your reasoning here...

Grace and peace to you, Behold.

 

[PinSeeker]

No OSAS believers refuting the point as usual.

Right, because the elemental point is irrefutable, that good works are very much a part of our salvation. This is what walking in the Spirit is, as Paul says in Galatians 5, regarding the fruit of the Spirit.

Just more doctrine speak around it.

Not at all.

They now teach, that their faith alone salvation is still by faith alone...

Well, it's through faith. By grace we have been saved through faith, and this is not our own doing but the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

...but now is never really alone, though still without works.

Not sure now how many times I have explicitly said that the 'without works' meme is totally in error, a gross misappropriation, something that "OSAS," does not advocate in any way. is just that: crap

...Scripture says the only way for faith not to be alone, is with works.

Agreed, although I would rephrase that just slightly, saying that Scripture is very clear that, as I said before, good works are essential to our salvation and will manifest themselves in us because of God's gift of saving faith and ongoing work in us, as I have said many times now.

Their faith alone that is not alone, must then be their own faith with their own zeal for it. It's not really alone, but is full of their own love for their own faith, that is still alone without justified works of God.

This deserves no attempt at parsing it out; it is just a jumble of absolute nonsense. Try again. Or... not, because most likely, whatever you say will just be debunked yet again.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

 

[robert derrick]

Nope. See above (post #10). Try again...

Grace and peace to you!

OSAS believers now teach that their salvation by faith alone, is never alone. The faith alone is not alone, but just not with works.

And the Scripture says the only way for faith not to be alone, is with works.

So exactly what is with their faith alone, other than works, that makes it never alone?

 

[PinSeeker]

OSAS believers now teach that their salvation by faith alone, is never alone. The faith alone is not alone, but just not with works.

Wrong yet again. See posts 10 and 13 above.

And the Scripture says the only way for faith not to be alone, is with works.

Agreed. And that works are a natural, outward manifestation of saving faith gifted to the believer by God.

So exactly what is with their faith alone, other than works, that makes it never alone?

A wholly non-sensical question (let alone non sequitur). See above.

Must you keep flailing away, Robert? And what ever happened to you not responding to me anymore? I would actually encourage that, since you keep getting set back down over and over again.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[robert derrick]

Not sure now how many times I have explicitly said that the 'without works' meme is totally in error, a gross misappropriation, something that "OSAS," does not advocate in any way. is just that: crap


Agreed, although I would rephrase that just slightly, saying that Scripture is very clear that, as I said before, good works are essential to our salvation and will manifest themselves in us because of God's gift of saving faith and ongoing work in us, as I have said many times now.

I've already dismissed you and your duplicity. You try to say you are better than unconditionally saved OSAS, by giving lip service to the law of Christ and his works of righteousness. So long as you believe the lie, that you are not condemned with the world, while doing the same as the world in any work of flesh, then you just delude yourself.

Your 'essential' good works of your own salvation, is just the old humanist religion of making sure you're doing more good than evil. It's the fool's list of more checks on the good side, while you keep the evil side to a minimum.

While any man is doing an evil work of the flesh, there are no good works at all at present in sight of God, and all the past righteousness is forgotten by Him.

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

God cares nothing for you checklist.

This deserves no attempt at parsing it out; it is just a jumble of absolute nonsense. Try again. Or... not, because most likely, whatever you say will just be debunked yet again. .

Then either agree with Scripture, that faith with works is the only way for faith never to be alone. And so to be saved by faith that is never alone, it must be by faith with works.

(Which is of course true anyway. It's just surprising to see unconditional OSAS believers finally agreeing with it, at least in word, if not in deed and in truth.)

Or just move on, and let some other OSAS believer explain how they can now preach they are saved by faith alone, but that faith is never alone.

 

[PinSeeker]

I've already dismissed you...

You have no idea how much I literally don't care.

You try to say you are better than unconditionally saved OSAS...

No, I've been saying you are unconditionally wrong about "unconditionally saved OSAS." Which you continue to be.

All the rest of this latest post is total nonsense. But by all means, keep going ~ and keep confirming to everyone how idiotic and stupid your ranting and raving is.

It's just surprising to see unconditional OSAS believers finally agreeing with it...

That's my point, is that they never disagreed, but you keep characterizing it as being in disagreement, and then using that to continue your empty rants.

...just move on...

Exactly, Robert. Move on, dude.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[The Learner]

start at Yesterday at 3:03 PM#4

 

[robert derrick]

I'm still waiting for some OS

No, I've been saying you are unconditionally wrong about "unconditionally saved OSAS." Which you continue to be.

As I said. I've already accompanied you down into the pit of your 'unconditional' OSAS.

So long as you believe your sinning doesn't stink as much as others, because you grace it with rose-petal theology, then you are just as unconditional OSAS as any other.

And your effort to separate yourself as better than them, makes you even more hypocritical than they.