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Featured OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Heb 13:8, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    The work has already been done, so let us rest in His work. OSAS is not a doctrine, it's rather the result of what Jesus already did for us. The carnal mind can't conceive that it is finished or that the gift of salvation is free, so those who oppose it place a price tag on themselves. , they work for the gift not knowing they're in defiance to God and the work He already did.

    They fear God instead of seeing Him as a friend, instead of accepting the truth that has been given to them through the internet. I suppose there is no difference in the Pharisee up in Jesus face 2000 year ago and Thomas wanting to see the nail marks in His hand vs his saints on the internet sharing the truth. Blessed is the one who does not see and yet believes.

    Still, in all this defiance over centuries, God still loves them. All He requires is for us to believe in what He did, but we can't even do that right. We have to hold on to ourselves, our pride, ego, our world power. But don't you see, that's what is killing you. There is no truth in you unless you are born of God, He is the only truth in the end.

    We have all fallen short of the Glory of God, even one sin that you've committed in your entire life places you in enmity with God and his saints. So how does one reconcile himself back to God, through belief in who Jesus says He is. He is God in the flesh who has died for your sins and has risen!. Don't just hear it, receive it.

    Disobedience is not trusting in the finished work of the cross, they say disobedience is lack of daily repentance, following commandments etc etc... but they don't realize that what their preaching is actually the disobedience they obtain too, worshiping Christ without actually having Christ. Loss of salvation is the defiance, not trusting in what He already did for you. That's how the devil works, he reverses the truth because he opposes God and the victory that's already won.

    It's not that the devil doesn't want you to know the truth, but rather he doesn't want you to receive it because you're already his. The hardest thing to do is believe and walk away from everything that you think is truth, so walk away and let's be friends in Christ.
     
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  2. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    Jhn 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

    Jhn 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

    Jhn 6:35-40 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

    Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

    Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

    Rom 6:3-4 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    Rom 8:31-39 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    2Co 1:21-22 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

    2Co 5:4-6 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.

    Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

    Phil 1:4-6 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

    Col 2:13-15 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

    1Ti 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

    Tit 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

    Tit 3:3-8 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

    Heb 6:16-20 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

    1 Pet 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

    2 Pet 2:8-9 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

    1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

    Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for a Jesus Christ:

    Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
     
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  3. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    When a person is in the place where he is truly praying without ceasing and is truly rejoicing in the Lord always, then I believe that he is in no danger of giving away or losing salvation. I cannot definitely say that I have even met a single person in such a continuous 24/7 mode of prayer and rejoicing. This doesn't mean that no one will ultimately be with God always, but it means, I believe, that God wants to see what we really will do with what we have been given as we are provided the opportunity. The Way really is easy as Jesus has said, but none, or at least very few, are willing to give up everything they have in order to follow him.
     
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  4. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you haven't made up your mind. Praying and rejoicing are works if you're adding loss of salvation. - Heb 13:8
     
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    You are arguing your case. I am simply striving to always be on the Lord's side. God however knows all of the answers to all of the questions of men. Men on the other hand living by faith are doing just that. Those who insist they have THE answer are likely not living faith, wouldn't you say?
     
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  6. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    The whole topic of OSAS is difficult to tackle. First off, its accredited to an absolutely brilliant scholar named Calvin. Yet... He really isn't the author of TULIP. I can't remember if he mention the phrase osas, but he did espouse the concept in 3 hapters of one of his some 60 books.

    In other words, he really spoke little of it and his writings and practices contradict what the term has become.

    In fact, those who reject OSAS will eventually argue with this statement: "Grace isn't a liscence to sin". Well now... Guess which 16th century theologian first coined that phrase! (It was John!)

    I believe in predestination because it is Biblical. I believe God knows who the last Saint is and knew it before Gen 1:1. Furthermore, I believe he pre ordained it.

    But knowing this... What help is it?

    None. We must all run the race to fibish the race. We know what must be done to finish, but we don't know if we will accomplish it until we actually do.

    I know thats a bit confusing... But to simplify it... We know what must be done. We don't know if we have it in us to do it until we actually finish it. God knows beforehand.
     
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  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Calvin did not originate OSAS, is clearly stated in Romans 8.

    Calvin said no one has a choice you are either always predestined for heaven or hell. No one has free will.

    Romans 8 says those who choose God are predestined all the way to glorification.
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    1. If we speak of the eternal security of the saint (or the believer), it would allow people to get a better understanding of what the Bible says about salvation. OSAS/non-OSAS simply leads to debate and neither side benefits.

    2. Also if we clearly understand that it is God Himself and Christ Himself who are our salvation, there would be no debate. "Christ in you the hope of glory" is what the Bible says (Col 1:27).
     
  9. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Well I agree. Its stated in other places as well.

    Did he? Its been about 10 years since I read his works.... But that is what he was getting at. Yet he didn't always adhere to that. And he did contradict himself at times.... The style of writing he and others did (Martin as well) made it easy to do so.

    No, it doesn't. And if you believe we choose God and that makes us predestinated, you contradict yourself. God chose us first. Yes, we chose God, but he did it first.
     
  10. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    That's good, as long you're not making it a work to keep your salvation secure.
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    No, it says he foreknew who would love him.

    Us choosing God because he chose us first is Calvanism.

    You are sounding Calvinistic here.
     
  12. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    well, did Calvin die on the cross for your sins? hmmm
     
  13. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Really? Where? Better read the whole verse and chapter.

    Really? I got it from the Bible, not Calvin. And I've read both. Have you?

    Only if he quoted the Bible.
     
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  14. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whoi]">[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    Foreknew, not predestined to love him. Then predestined all the way to glorification.
     
  15. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with OSAS and predestination is that it negates need for a person to truly accept Christ-- a love that's freely and continually given. It cheapens the relationship between Christ and individuals.
     
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  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    If you don't truly accept Christ then your not saved.

    It doesn't cheapen one's relationship. Mine has been growing stronger all the time for 57 years.

    What would you rather have, the fear that if you make one mistake you end up in hell?

    Sorry, but what you're saying pushes works to keep salvation.
     
  17. Heb 13:8

    Heb 13:8 Well-Known Member

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    It actually strengthens the relationship. Christ comes before us. It why the Pharisee weren't friends of God, they couldn't fathom it, a love that deep

    Rom 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

     
  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    :):D
     
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  19. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so you lose, but you win! :D
     
  20. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    straight comedy, Heb, ty
     
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