OSAS Question

[kcnalp]

One OSAS believer here stated:

"If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes...."

Do you agree with this comment?

 

[atpollard]

No.
(but potentially not for the same reason as others ... one cannot LOSE a salvation they did not EARN any more than someone can choose to be physically "unborn".)

 

[kcnalp]

The silence is deafening. No surprise!

 

[atpollard]

The silence is deafening. No surprise!

The sound of one hand clapping.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One OSAS believer here stated:

"If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes...."

Do you agree with this comment?

If that belief you believed was the trust in the death and resurrectrion of Jesus for you sin- then yes y9ou will go- you hav e been born anew!

But if by belief- you mean you merely gave mental assent to a series of facts?--No! Doubts and unsureness do not remove salvation from a child of god!

 

[kcnalp]

If that belief you believed was the trust in the death and resurrectrion of Jesus for you sin- then yes y9ou will go- you hav e been born anew!

But if by belief- you mean you merely gave mental assent to a series of facts?--No! Doubts and unsureness do not remove salvation from a child of god!

He said he stopped believing. He was still saved?

 

[friend of]

No. You have to endure to the end.

 

[kcnalp]

Maybe some OSASers here got saved?

 

[mailmandan]

Saving belief/faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.

 

[kcnalp]

Saving belief/faith continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.

So you're saying he was never saved? He says he was truly saved. He's an OSASer.

 

[mailmandan]

So you're saying he was never saved? He says he was truly saved. He's an OSASer.

Those who trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation are saved. (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..)

 

[Wrangler]

Those who trust in Jesus Chris as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation are saved.

Present tense, agreed.

 

[kcnalp]

Those who trust in Jesus Chris as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation are saved. (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..)

Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise YOU also will be cut off.

 

[Enoch111]

Do you agree with this comment?

Dealing in hypotheticals is counterproductive.

 

[Amazed@grace]

The school of thought that teaches we can lose our salvation never consider the challenge to prove it.

Not taking scripture out of context "proof". Proving with scripture that states every change that occurred in the repentant sinner is reversed in them by God. That they then return to their former sinner state.

Dear anti- eternal salvation proponents, proceed to meet the challenge.
Exact scripture only please.

 

[Curtis]

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:

Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we believers choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 Paul warns above, that having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.

Also, Paul warns the church at Corinth to make sure they aren’t reprobates.


2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


He warns that some of the church that think they’re in the faith can actually have become reprobates.


The word reprobates is ADOKIMOS in the Greek, which becomes important in the verse where Paul himself says he has to subjugate his flesh (the flesh is worldly desires to sin) daily, lest after preaching salvation to others, he end up a castaway.


1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring itinto subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.


The word castaway is also ADOKIMOS in the Greek - reprobate.


Paul said he would end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily.


Scripture clearly in fact shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.

OSAS is not biblical.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 John 2
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also

if you do not believe, you are one who denies that Jesus is the Christ, that makes you an antichrist, according to John, you were never saved to begin with, if you were truly saved you never would have left in unbelief.

you do not lose faith is someone unless they become unfaithful, or they continually let you down. god I’d not unfaithful, and he may let people down by not giving them what they want, but he still remains faithful, ask Paul, and all the heartbreak, pain and suffering he had to endure, even the thorn he begged God to remove only to have God say his grace was sufficient,

people stop believing because they never truly believed to begin with, they had mere belief. Not true saving faith, so when they did not recieve what they though they were getting, they walked away, like the disciples did when they found out Jesus was not going to free them from rome.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:

Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Paul warns us over and over, that if we believers choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:


Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded isDEATH, but to be spiritually minded isLIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind isENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Verse 8:7 Paul warns above, that having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.

Also, Paul warns the church at Corinth to make sure they aren’t reprobates.


2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


He warns that some of the church that think they’re in the faith can actually have become reprobates.


The word reprobates is ADOKIMOS in the Greek, which becomes important in the verse where Paul himself says he has to subjugate his flesh (the flesh is worldly desires to sin) daily, lest after preaching salvation to others, he end up a castaway.


1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring itinto subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.


The word castaway is also ADOKIMOS in the Greek - reprobate.


Paul said he would end up a reprobate if he didn’t subjugate his flesh with its sinful desires, daily.


Scripture clearly in fact shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.

OSAS is not biblical.

Then paul taught a salvation of works, a salvation of if you do good enough you may just in the end be saved, he taught salvation based on our righteousness not Gods, he taught conditional life not eternal.

sorry my friend, paul never taught this, he taught to be absent was to be present he taught the eternal seal of the spirit, he taught eternal life, he taught that we recieved already every blessing under heaven as an inheritance which will never fade away.

you taking a few passages which make paul appear to,say something he did not does not change that

 

[mailmandan]

Written to Christians:
Romans 11:22 (NKJV)
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise YOU also will be cut off.

The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. (vs. 19-21) Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Israelites lost the goodness and blessings of God, but this doesn't speak of losing salvation.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious.

 

[CadyandZoe]

One OSAS believer here stated:

"If I died when I didn’t believe I would have gone to Heaven because there was One Time That I DID Believe.....that’s all it takes...."

Do you agree with this comment?

No. In the parable of the sower, what is the fruit?