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Featured Paul didn't write Hebrews

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by marks, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Just compare . . .

    Hebrews 2
    3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

    Galatians 1
    11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
    12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


    The writer of Hebrews received his teaching from those who heard Jesus, Paul received his teaching from Jesus.

    Not the same man.

    Much love!
     
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  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    @marks I would love to disagree with you but the argument that you have presented is dependant on whether or not what Paul had learned was also affirmed to him through his interactions with the disciples when he had interactions with them.

    There is always dissention when we see subtle differences in what is presented to us given at different times. The understanding in Hebrews was presented by someone who had knowledge of the scriptures and what was still to come, based on what was understood through the teaching/doctrine of Christ.

    The question that you raise is whether or not Paul was also the author of the book of Hebrews. The question that really needs to be answered is, "Is the truth in all that Paul wrote and is there truth also in the Book of Hebrews?" If the answer to both considerations is yes, then why is there a need for any discussion?

    Shalom
     
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  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You have simple misinterpreted Scripture. Paul is speaking about the other apostles in Hebrew 2:3,4, not about himself. And he says that their Gospel was confirmed to them (and to him). As much as his Gospel was confirmed by them to him, as being true, and no different than theirs, as noted below.

    GALATIANS 2
    7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the Gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
    9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we
    should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
    10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

    The most conclusive evidence that Paul is the author of Hebrews is the mention of Timothy. Timothy was Paul's constant companion and son in the faith, while Paul was his mentor. And this is what we read in Hebrews 13:18-25. This whole passage reflects the way Paul writes in all his epistles (bolded portions), but here he mentions Timothy specifically, and that he would accompany him.

    18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly. 19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner... 22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words. 23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you. 24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you. 25 Grace be with you all. Amen. (Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.)




     
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  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK.

    Let me be more precise.

    Them that heard Him is not us or me.

    The writer of Hebrews, according to their own testimony, did not hear directly from Jesus.

    Much love!
     
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  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Keep pushing your POV, it may take traction, but for me, the argument as to who wrote the Book of Hebrews bears little significance for me as the truth in the book is still not properly understood yet and any argument about the author is a distraction for those who read the book with this uncertainty of yours as to who the author was.

    The question is was the Book of Hebrews written through the inspiration of God and the Holy Spirit?

    Shalom
     
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  6. shnarkle

    shnarkle Active Member

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    Some have already alluded to this fact, but I'll add my two cents worth. Whoever wrote the book of Hebrews was probably a follower of Paul's writings. There's nothing that contradicts Paul's writings which is why so many people still attribute it to Paul. Some have speculated that it was probably a member of a church founded by Paul.
     
  7. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

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    Could it be that in Hebrews 2:3-4 Paul was identifying himself with those Hebrew Christians? The problem being addressed in the book of Hebrews was many converted Hebrews, in time, backslide into Judaism again. And the Hebrew epistle is giving warnings about backsliding and encouragement not to do so therefore Paul identified himself with the Hebrews in their struggle. For in Hebrews 5:12-14 one problem with these Hebrew converts is that they had not spiritually grown as they should have. And then in Hebrews 6:1 Paul writes "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God," Again, Paul identifies himself with those Hebrews ("us") in encouraging them to leave the basics of the gospel and move on to a mature understanding. Of course Paul was not one who was immature and infantile in his understanding of the principles of Christ but was possibly identifying himself with those Hebrews to help encourage them to move on. I am not saying this is the case, but it is possible.
     
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  8. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    You're right.
    The more we learn,,the more authorship is becoming questioned.
    Most biblical scholars believe Paul DID NOT write Hebrews.

    To me it makes no difference.
    If the ECFs put it in the N.T., it means the doctrine is correct.
    Which, indeed, it is.
     
  9. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    If it wasn't , it wouldn't be in the New Testament.
     
  10. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I believe it can be found in his opening greetings of them all...and his closing.

    Hebrews opening and closing is different.

    One of my favourite books of the bible...but I for sure lean heavily that he did not write it.
     
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  11. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree that it really doesn't matter?
    Later.
     
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  12. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeed :)

    I am sure Marks posted it for 'discussions sake'... ( some of the threads are getting long, boring , and very repetitive..)

    I'm interested in any 'new' discussion....

    Hebrews does not "for me" have Paul's stamp on it ...and is much different in style.
    But, as I mentioned...one of my favourites . :)
     
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  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe that after Paul wrote 13 epistles by divine inspiration (the bulk of the New Testament), God would randomly get someone else to write Hebrews, which is one of the most critical doctrinal epistles in the NT?
    The King James translators were correct in attributing this epistle to Paul.

    Please note what Bengel says in his commentary regarding the general consensus about who wrote Hebrews, with detailed discussion which can be found on Bible Hub.:

    MANY anonymous writers, though unknown, endeavour to be useful to their readers; but the writer of this Divine Epistle shows, that he was known to those to whom he writes: Hebrews 13:19. And the Apostle Paul is said to be the writer of the epistle, with the general consent of antiquity. Above all, Peter, writing to the elect strangers scattered through Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, praises the letters of Paul, which he wrote to them also. But the other epistles of Paul were sent to Gentile converts; this one alone to the Hebrews... Moreover the method and style of Paul may be easily recognised: for he puts the proposition and division before the discussion, Hebrews 2:17. He distinctly and separately subjoins the practical to the doctrinal part: he puts the practical part at greater length at the end of the epistle. He quotes the same words of the Old Testament which he does elsewhere...
     
  14. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. If one reads the epistles of Paul and then reads (Hebrews), you can tell that it is of Paul. Read the closing statement in (Heb. 13:15-25) and tell me that isn't Paul.

    Grant it, the strongest argument against Paul's authorship is the comparison of (Heb. 2:3-4) and (Gal. 1:11-12).

    We are told in (Gal. 1:12) that Paul did not receive his gospel from man. It came directly from Jesus Christ.

    We are told in (Heb. 2:3) that the writer of Hebrews states that he has received his knowledge of this salvation from others whom the Lord taught.

    But look again at (Heb. 2:3) "How shall we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"

    Compare this to (Rom. 15:8) "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers."

    The message in the book of (Hebrews) does not concern Paul's gospel at all. (Heb. 2:3) would be true of Paul as a Jew. Jesus Christ was not preaching Paul's gospel. He was preaching the gospel of the Kingdom to the circumcision, which was directly to the Jews. (Rom. 15:8) It concerned the promises made to the fathers. (15:8) That is the salvation (Heb. 2:3) is speaking of.

    Do you see? That which was confirmed in (Heb. 2:3) was that which was confirmed in (Rom. 15:8). Which was the gospel of the kingdom to the Jews. Of which Paul was as much a recipient as any other Jew.

    So, why didn't Paul identify himself. Because as soon as he identified himself, he would have lost most of the Jewish readers. You do realize they were spreading lies about Paul and inflaming the Jews against him. So, he didn't put his name to it.

    Stranger
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds reasonable, and he may have been led by the Spirit to do that. Also, the normal introductions of Paul's epistles could not apply in this case, since the epistle was not written to a specific church but to all Hebrew Christians in all churches (and to all Christians in all ages). Christians need to know why Christ and the New Covenant are so much better than Moses and the Old Covenant.

    Only Paul -- a trained Pharisee of the Pharisees -- had a deeper grasp of both the Old and the New Covenants, in order to show the superiority of the latter against the former. But at the end he reveals himself by mentioning Timothy and how he would accompany him.
     
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  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    @marks

    I do want to say this.

    We shouldn't be intimidated by the fact that we're learning more and more about the bible.
    This is a good thing.

    If we could be honest about our bible,,,maybe more young kids would be drawn to it.
    There is a problem with them,,,both in the catholic and protestant church.
     
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  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's why I posted it!

    :)

    @Enoch111 @Stranger @Ernest T. Bass @GodsGrace

    But to me this represents a particular point of interpretation. There appears to be a contradiction of one views Paul as the writer, since Paul makes a point of saying he learned his gospel not from man, and the writer of Hebrews says they got it from someone else who heard it straight from the Lord.

    So then it comes to, if you maintain the view that Paul wrote the book, how you solve that discrepancy. In one case, it's a literary device to let the Jews identify more readily, ie, "Not from Paul!!"

    In another case, it's assumed that there is more we're not being told, that is, that the writer actually learned the gospel both ways.

    I think Stranger is saying, it's not the Lord, as in, Jesus teaching the apostles, but it's the LORD promising the patriachs. That would then mean the written Scritpures, then, correct? In which case why not say that?

    Did Paul ascend into the third heaven?

    Paul said he wouldn't brag about himself, but that he would brag about this other dude, who went into the third heaven.

    What of that?

    Much love!
     
  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

    And who the Son makes free, is free indeed!!!

    :)

    Much love!
     
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  19. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Marks,
    I'd like to reply to your post no. 17, but tomorrow morning so I could concentrate.
    Perhaps we could discuss this book a little to hear varying views...
    I mean scholarly varying views....I certainly don't know enough of the difference.
    As to the above...
    AMEN!
     
  20. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Wouldn’t Paul agree that learning something directly from God and through others can be reconciled? I’ve certainly learned directly from God, through the mouthpiece of others. Jesus did as well

    Matt 16:15-17
     
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